KONG vs MANNY

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(Felix @ Oct 16, 2005 -> 05:47 PM)

Thanks for proving nothing.  You've just said that the defensive stats arent right about Crede or A-Rod, but have yet to say something positive about Manny in the field.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, he does have his "moments" and will botch the occassional flyball, but he has an above average arm, has adjusted to Fenway beautifully, and overall is a fine defensive player.

 

I've watched him man left field for the last five years. It's amazing how misleading 45 second highlites on sportscenter can be.

[Felix]

You've watched him man left field in Boston, and yet balls still drop in front of him. How deep is left in Fenway again?

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(YASNY @ Oct 16, 2005 -> 05:46 PM)

I'm of the belief that it's ludicrous to discuss baseball with you on anything involving the Red Sox.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where did I go wrong? I don't think Manny Ramirez is as bad defensively as people here think he is? or is it because Alex Rodriguez is not my MVP, and David Ortiz is.

 

Explain.

[aboz56]

I'm of the belief that it's ludicrous to discuss baseball with you on anything involving the Red Sox.

Thank you.

 

No White Sox fan likes the Red Sox.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Oct 16, 2005 -> 05:53 PM)

Thank you.

 

No White Sox fan likes the Red Sox.

 

OWNEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really don't care if you don't like the Red Sox, you've made that clear several times. Do you think that bothers me? Offer something half decent for a change and if you're going to act like a two year old with the "OWNEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD" thing, then atleast "own" me.

[CWSGuy406]

Tango Tiger conducted, for the second year in a row, a "Defensive Scouting Report: By the Fans". I'm sure me or Cheat or 3E8 posted it somewhere here, but I don't feel like finding the thread about it.

 

Anyways, 114 people gave their thoughts about Manny Ramirez, which can be seen here. This is how they voted (a score of 50 is average, BTW, and obviously, they took the average of the 114 people who voted):

 

Overall -- 32

Instincts -- 17

First Step -- 22

Speed -- 28

Hands -- 23

Release (throwing) -- 47

Strength -- 55

Accuracy -- 67

 

So, you're right, redandwhite, he does have a decent arm, but w/r/t range and getting to the ball, it looks like he's well below average -- or, at least, according to 114 people.

Edited October 16, 2005 by CWSGuy406

[SkokieSox]

Don't blame me for reading the Times today.  I am collecting the papers both here & in Bos, Ana, & Hou/Stl for my World Series keepsakes this year.  So I did read Kotex Boy today.

 

As I expected he slides a compliment in with a lot of crap in his first paragraph.  From there you pretty much know what to expect so I won't bother with the rest. 

 

But then he does what I have yet to see any reporter do: start the bid price for Kong.  He starts it at $70M/5yr.  Basically what he stated repeatedly last year as the price the White Sox owed Magglio.  If Maggs stays healthy the Tiger deal could be $105M.

 

Of course any team fielding a payroll north of $60M is likely to want to be at that auction so I don't think it's unreasonable.  But I do think it's classless for him to be the one to start the bidding.  We don't need a popular Chicago columnist being our #1 nemesis in the sports writing world.  We have plenty of qualified candidates at ESPN for that job (notice the lack of the White Sox being the lead MLB story on their site .. the only site to NOT have them as the lead).

 

Well now that Kotex Boy has thrown it out there I doubt very much if it's going to be the ceiling.  Which brings us to the bigger question.  Which would be of more value to the 2006 White Sox: a cut-rate price for Manny or an over-priced Kong? 

 

The price to get Manny is going to be no less than a starter.  If I had to guess it will be Garland because his price vs performance is at an all-time high.  So Manny at $13M a year (with the cash BOS throws in) for the price of Garland & minor leaguers doesn't look all that bad.  I don't think any other team will be able to offer a package that match's Garland as the centerpiece.

 

But where would he play? DH, RF, or 1B. I mention 1B because Manny has proven adept in Bos at playing hard hit grounders & balls hit off the wall.  He has shown better IF instincts than OF ones & his arm is certainly adequate for 1B.  If not at 1B then you could slot him in at RF.  Again with Pods speed, Rowand can cheat to his right to reduce the coverage area for Manny.  Dye then would take over 1B. 

 

DH is obvious but when you consider the potential of Thomas-Manny-Dye as a 3-4-5

well it should give you goose bumps.  There's a potential of over 100HR's a year in that middle.

 

Of course with the $13M a year Boston would save in the deal they could then turn around & sign Kong.  So it works out for both teams. 

 

Kotex Boy is selling Kong at Thome-like prices.  I hope he's wrong.  I hope Kong will stay for no more than $60M/5.  But I fear he's correct.  I fear that Kong is boosting his price by $1M a year with every HR he hits in Oct.  I fear that his next contract will be in the neighborhood of $90M/6.  Even with a WS win we can't afford that.  I will greatly miss Kong's defense at 1B.  I think he's well-deserving of a GG this year. 

 

I'll continue to pray that Kong's love for the White Sox is greater than Giles love was for the Pirates or Griffey's love is for the Reds.  It's not out of the question he might choose to remain with us than to seek greater riches elsewhere.  One thing we have in our favor:  if he's not the #1 sports personality in Chicago now he soon will be.  He can talk to MJ directly to see what that's worth a year

PK. I like the guy. Really good player. 90 million @ 6 years = see you later. No regrets at that price.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Oct 16, 2005 -> 05:59 PM)

Tango Tiger conducted, for the second year in a row, a "Defensive Scouting Report:  By the Fans".  I'm sure me or Cheat or 3E8 posted it somewhere here, but I don't feel like finding the thread about it.

 

Anyways, 114 people gave their thoughts about Manny Ramirez, which can be seen here.  This is how they voted  (a score of 50 is average, BTW, and obviously, they took the average of the 114 people who voted):

 

Overall -- 32

Instincts -- 17

First Step -- 22

Speed -- 28

Hands -- 23

Release (throwing) -- 47

Strength -- 55

Accuracy -- 67

 

So, you're right, redandwhite, he does have a decent arm, but w/r/t range and getting to the ball, it looks like he's well below average -- or, at least, according to 114 people. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Great post, I actually started the tangotiger thread on soxtalk, here. I never said that he was going to win awards or anything like that, I just happen to think he is a very underrated defensive player. Thanks for sharing that, I should have done that myself.

 

Edit: link

Edited October 17, 2005 by redandwhite

[FlaCWS]

I would not give up one of our starters for Manny, and I wouldn't break the bank for Konerko (although I would give him a fair offer). Bottom line is that we've proven that pitching and defense wins. The Astros are proving it too, just one season after letting Carlos Beltran walk.

 

If we want a big bat so badly, how's this for an idea... Mike Piazza. I believe he's a FA and he could come here and be the everyday DH and backup catcher. Sure, he's injury-prone, but as a DH he won't be as vulnerable. Plus he's a little older than Manny and Konerko and would come much cheaper. I think this is a no-brainer, assuming Piazza doesn't over-value himself.