Molto Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 also, if we were to dump Valentin and have Jimenez play short (bad idea) I would rather have Miles at second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 also, if we were to dump Valentin and have Jimenez play short (bad idea) I would rather have Miles at second. who else could play SS? I agree that D Lo at ss is not the world's best idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 nobody, which is why we can't dump Valentin, he's the best we have. we need to develop one. I know there is a guy down in the minors, but one guy isn't enough when your developing. Jimenez is probably the most capable of anyone we have, but that isn't saying much. let's not forgot, shortstop, second base, hell, the infield in general isn't our problem right now, although Konerko has been playing pretty bad. our problem is offensively, back to Konerko and Thomas, these two guys have become big holes. Ordonez and Lee have had their problems, but they break out here and there and show something at times, but Konerko and Thomas (and even Valentin) have done nothing. if we are going do anything it needs to be this: find a center fielder dump Frank Thomas find a lefty-hitting, strong defensive, good speed, fundamentally sound left-fielder. THEN, you rotate Lee, Konerko and this guy at 1B/DH/LF. the DH spot shouldn't be for one player, it should be used as a half-day off. this has nothing to do with Thomas. I don't think he's been a problem, I just figure, if we are gonna struggle, struggle the right way and not with a DH-only player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Molto, thank you, that is the type of the analysis that I really need. I disagree on dumping Frank - but other than that (and maybe I like CLee a tad bit more than you do) I really want to say thank you and hoiw much I agree with the rest of what you posted. Your idea of rotating the DH is one that goes back 30 years when it first came in and then was abandoned - I haven't thought about that concept in 29 years now. It may well be tme to resurrect it - you may really be on to something there. Could almost give us one more position player and allow a better way of rotating days off by keeping players in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 If you want an OF, try Cincinnati: Griffey Kearns Dunn Pena Guillen (Bench) Taylor Branyan (DL) Cincy would be a perfect pcik to unload some pitching, because theirs is atrocious. If there was a way to get Dunn (would have to be Garland, Rauch, and a Tier I prospect), I'd do it in a heartbeat. An outfield of Dunn, Borchard, Ordonez, would produce a ton of K's, but a ton of homers. That Guillen kid is a solid ball player as well. It's amazing that the Cincy GM hasn't started dealin some of these kids for pitching. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 eh, Dunn would be nice because he is a lefty, but the strikeouts/homer analysis is something I don't like. the only time strikeouts are acceptable is when you are Jim Thome. we need some sound fundamental players on this team before anything. then again, if Lee, Konerko and Thomas were all be shipped out as a result of this, giving us room to pick up some solid players at first and DH/OF, then I would do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 then again, if Lee, Konerko and Thomas were all be shipped out as a result of this, giving us room to pick up some solid players at first and DH/OF, then I would do this. I honestly only see one of those three being here next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 didn't we go that route once? and didn't he whine and cry? and didn't all the worshippers of St JosE6 complain that he was being abused? and doesn't his contract situation means we lsoe him at the end of the year because he will get way too over priced for what he does unless he suddenly raises his average by 150 points and stop making errors? I am counting down the days till the Sox stop paying Jose 4.5 million a year. The guy is SO OVERATED. I still can't believe the league hasn't figured out that they could throw him a curveball every at bat and he would hit .120 Only reason he'd get any hits is that a few of the curves would be hung. yeah jas, I never full realized that until you pointed it out. Valentin has survived on his "leadership", which suprisingly clouds people enough to think he's a good player on the field. I think he's clutch and I like his baserunning, but what good is clutch if nobody is on base? and what good is baserunning if you can't get on base? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 I wouldn't mind dumping Konerko, not because of his poor play, but his salary is somewhat high and I would prefer to keep Colon and Buehrle here. if we are gonna keep one of those guys, I'd make it Lee. I know what everyone is thinking, Lee over Konerko and Thomas? sure Lee isn't gonna put up the numbers they put up, but we can probably keep him for $4 mil a year, $2-$3 mil less than Thomas or Konerko. Also, we can teach Lee to play first base, meaning he can play two positions. let us not forget his speed. his baserunning has improved to an extent, making him more valuable on teh bases compared to Thomas and Konerko. Keep Lee, and get a few guys to rotate with him at LF/1B/DH. you save $14 mil or so on Konerko and Thomas, can spend that on Colon/Buehrle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Hey, guys, your trade talk is fascinating, but you have to leave Thomas out of the equation. He is untradable. The only thing we could do is release him and continue paying him millions. We are stuck. We lost a lot of flexibility by the inability to get Joe B ready for the majors. He was going to take over center AND hit. I don't see it happening yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Well then they should just release him. I acquire with what Mario is saying. For a long time I've felt that way in regards to the DH as well. To me you rest players and use the DH to play the matchup. Sometimes bring in the lefty, sometimes give Maggs the day off, other times give Konerko, etc. Right now I think the best thing for the Sox would be to get rid of at least one of the Konerko, Thomas, and Lee combo. I agree with Mario that Konerko/Thomas should be the ones to go. Mainly because Lee is a better all around player. Most of you would call me nuts, but he has good speed, and overall an outfielder is more valuable then a first baseman or a DH. That mixed in with the fact that he's got a good knowledge of the strike zone and could come a whole lot cheaper then the other two. I still think someone would be willing to take on Konerko, but the Sox would have to do it now, knowing that they have Daubach who could step in and replace him. I still notice that my pick for DH/1st baseman/left field (Fick) is starting to really do good with the Braves. I wanted him to be part of that platoon role with Frank staying far away from the Sox. I hate having guys in the middle that clog up the basepaths and don't produce. This team isn't really that far away, I just think they have to make a minor change to their offensive concept, by bringing in more complete playes. Daubach from the left side would be nice. He'll hit .270 with 25 hr's and 80 or so knocked in. Then find someone else to DH/play the field and the Sox would be alright. Thats assuming you move both Konerko and Thomas, which would be a hell of a job well done for any gm. Most importantly moving Thomas and PK means Colon and Buehrle could come back and you could even lock Maggs up. The Sox have to be smart about things. Anyteam out there looking for some more pop? If Moises Alou went down, then the Cubs could be interested in someone like Carlos Lee (Like I say, he's the last of that group I'd want to trade). Oakland could potentially use a first baseman, but I know most are afraid of that move. Heck, could you imagine a Konerko, Valentin, and someone else swap for Miguel Tejada. That would be nice, not saying it would happen. More likely it would be a prospect trade, maybe Byrnes and then a very good prospect or two. I'd love to get a hold of Harden, but ya right. The big thing right now, is who would be interested? Dodgers are the one team that I think would make a lot of sense, if Mcgriff's numbers fell off. They have a couple middle infielders and if the Sox could nab Itsturis it would be a nice move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 I definately agree that we must break up the Lee/Konerko/Thomas combo. Carlos, I still think he'll break out big one season so I'm willing to keep him. Thomas, I can't think of anyone that might be interested in him. I think he'll probably stay a career-long Sox player. Konerko would be the one that I would love to move. He was an all-star last year, that might give him some attention. He's still fairly young, but with his hip problems, I don't think anyone's looking at him. It will sure be hard to break up this bunch, maybe we can throw in a pitching prospect or two also. Jason, I also love that Furcal kid but it would take a whole lot to get him. Izturis has a great glove but not much offense, I'd rather have Alex Cora. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 To cwsox and Jas....saying Jose is overrated....that bugs me. That's because I'm a Jose fan. However...I do agree that all you have to do is feed him curve balls and he'd hit s***. What you have to do is put a very fast leadoff guy in front of him....in this case, I'd even take Harris. If he has a .330 OBP....that'd be good enough. Then he is fast enough that he can steal and be safe on any curve ball....and because you don't want to get to the #3 hitter, whoever it may be, because they are a good enough hitter to bring in the runner from second....you feed Jose fastballs and sliders with the runner on first. He'd still hit for power....and he has incredible range. Nomar Garciaparra makes 20-25 errors a year. I don't see you guys complaining about what a s***ty defensive SS he is. If I have to have a weak spot on my defense....it's that our gloves are not good....but, along with those s***ty gloves, we have great range. With great range, you get game saving plays...should be doubles become singles, should be triples become doubles, should be homers become outs(or in Eric Byrnes's case, they become triples ). They'll boot a few....but they'll get the hard ones, and it will all even out in the end. Errors are overrated. This is why, IMO, we do not need a guy like DJ. I hate to bring this up again....but people don't realize how much Ray Durham really meant to this team. Which is why I am in favor of getting Castillo....and I'd give up DJ if that's what they wanted. It's do or die this year, right? If we win....we resign Colon first, then Castillo, then get Maggs locked up long term....etc, etc, etc. If we don't....we don't resign these guys....and we go back to rebuilding.....again. Simple as that. It's hard....but that's what we'd have to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Garciaparra makes 20-25 errors (still less than Valentin) and has a career .325 average and is a 100 RBI a year guy. 20 errors with those numbers offensively is acceptable, 30 errors with Valentin's numbers offensively isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Garciaparra makes 20-25 errors (still less than Valentin) and has a career .325 average and is a 100 RBI a year guy. 20 errors with those numbers offensively is acceptable, 30 errors with Valentin's numbers offensively isn't. Well said Molto, I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Garciaparra makes 20-25 errors (still less than Valentin) and has a career .325 average and is a 100 RBI a year guy. 20 errors with those numbers offensively is acceptable, 30 errors with Valentin's numbers offensively isn't. Jose Valentin has made 30+ errors twice in his career. Otherwise, he's been a 20-25 error guy....he had 20 in 94, 15 in 95....then 37 in 96....had 20 in 97, 21 in 98, 22 in 99....then 36 in 2000....had 20 in 01, and 19 last year. He makes a lot of errors....but I'd rather have him botch the routine play 20-30 times a year and have great range and make the spectacular plays occasionally instead of getting everything within 3 steps, like someone else who I won't mention that we had the past two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 you read through this thread and there is respectful disagreement and free exchange of opinions politely, civily stated, with respect for other views, and by all, some good insights being made to contribute to a better understanding by everyone. damn, soxtalk.com can be so good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 you read through this thread and there is respectful disagreement and free exchange of opinions politely, civily stated, with respect for other views, and by all, some good insights being made to contribute to a better understanding by everyone. damn, soxtalk.com can be so good! Did I miss a meeting CW? Is blue the sarcasm color? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 you read through this thread and there is respectful disagreement and free exchange of opinions politely, civily stated, with respect for other views, and by all, some good insights being made to contribute to a better understanding by everyone. damn, soxtalk.com can be so good! You know, I could go on about a fun loving " :fyou " barrage right now. But after the White Sox just won, and had great pitching yet again....I find it hard to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Did I miss a meeting CW? Is blue the sarcasm color? look at my signature again, my friend - note the love of M Go Blue! - when I post in blue that is utter sincereity and admiration - this forum is the best baseball forum I have ever encountered. I love soxtalk.com! and I just love the MLB boards too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 You know, I could go on about a fun loving " :fyou " barrage right now. oh, go for it, You want to, and we all in a good mood - :fyou :fyou all you want to tonight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 look at my signature again, my friend - note the love of M Go Blue! - when I post in blue that is utter sincereity and admiration - this forum is the best baseball forum I have ever encountered. I love soxtalk.com! and I just love the MLB boards too. Oh Boy, now I have to pay attention to colors to. As if I didn't have enough to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 You know, I could go on about a fun loving " :fyou " barrage right now. oh, go for it, You want to, and we all in a good mood - :fyou :fyou all you want to tonight! Nope....I'm too happy right now. The Sox just won, and I'm listening to some great tunes. But just for s***s and giggles.... :fyou cwsox :fyou Mr Showtime :fyou anyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Nope....I'm too happy right now. But just for s***s and giggles.... :fyou cwsox :fyou Mr Showtime :fyou anyone else :fyou to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Nope....I'm too happy right now. The Sox just won, and I'm listening to some great tunes. But just for s***s and giggles.... :fyou buffalo bills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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