Mass. School tries to force kids to be tolerant

[Balta1701]

I found this to be a very interesting article, in the whole "I don't agree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" vein.

 

David and Tonia Parker are asking their neighbors in this liberal town for one consideration:

 

Tolerance.

 

The Parkers believe homosexuality is immoral. So they were appalled when their son brought a picture book home from kindergarten that showed families with same-sex parents.

 

To ensure his "spiritual safety," they demanded the right to pull him out of class whenever homosexuality was discussed.

 

To deny them that right, they say, would be intolerant of their faith.

 

School administrators offer a different take on tolerance.

 

They say it's their job to expose children to the world's diversity.

 

Supt. Paul B. Ash refuses to whisk the Parkers' son away if a classmate with same-sex parents brings a family photo for show-and-tell, or a lesbian couple volunteers at the Halloween party.

 

Similar debates have roiled communities across the nation as conservative parents challenge classes, books and after-school activities that they say promote a one-sided view of homosexuality as normal. They have notched victories in several states.

 

But the dispute here has gone further than most.

 

David Parker has been banned from school property. Ash has been flooded with hate mail from across the country. There have been protests and counter-protests; the local newspaper received so many letters, many condemning the Parkers as bigots that the editor stopped printing them.

 

Ash talks of the school's obligation "to be more than tolerant" to children and parents of all backgrounds.

 

Parker asks: Where's the tolerance for him?

 

"Real respect, real tolerance, is not pushing your beliefs on other people," Parker said. "What people do in their bedroom, that's their business. What they tell my children in school about these subjects — that's my business."

 

Parker, 43, was so upset at the response to his demand that he refused to leave after a meeting with administrators at Joseph Estabrook School in April.

 

Police arrested him. Parker declined to post bail and spent the night in jail; his trespassing trial is set for today. For now, the district has banned him from school property.

As you can probably guess, I don't harbor any love for the guy's positions. But given that this is a non-academic field that we're talking about here, I can't see any reason why the guy's kid should be forced to go through that "education" if his family disagrees with it.

[jasonxctf]

so if Carl Everett wants to pull his kids out of the 2nd grade Dinosaur lesson or talking about Pangea that's ok?? the danger in letting the parents win here, is where does it stop. what if a family doesnt like a book their kid has to read, or doesnt agree with the way math or reading is taught... (and there is a lot of fights going on about reading teaching styles)

 

THe other issue at hand is the disruption to the classroom that is caused by having to stop everyone from learning until little Johnny and his ears are safely out of distance.

 

My wife had a Jehovah Witness Kid a few years ago. A bigger nightmare, you can not imagine. They even had the nerve to bring in a book on how and what to teach their kid. Like she has the time or the ability to customize learning styles and programs for 25 different 2nd graders.

 

Parents....

[Balta1701]

so if Carl Everett wants to pull his kids out of the 2nd grade Dinosaur lesson or talking about Pangea that's ok?? the danger in letting the parents win here, is where does it stop. what if a family doesnt like a book their kid has to read, or doesnt agree with the way math or reading is taught... (and there is a lot of fights going on about reading teaching styles)

 

THe other issue at hand is the disruption to the classroom that is caused by having to stop everyone from learning until little Johnny and his ears are safely out of distance.

 

My wife had a Jehovah Witness Kid a few years ago. A bigger nightmare, you can not imagine. They even had the nerve to bring in a book on how and what to teach their kid. Like she has the time or the ability to customize learning styles and programs for 25 different 2nd graders.

 

Parents.... 

I think there's a pretty major difference between allowing parents to pull their kids out of a class on some specific variety of tolerance and allowing parents to pull their kids out of an actual educational class which is required for graduation from high school.

 

Can anyone around here give me a good reason why this sort of "education" would be something that would fit into a standardized test? I can't think of one.

[Kyyle23]

The only thing I can imagine in where this would come into play is teaching kids acceptance of different people and different lifestyles. Kindergarten is awful young to try and teach them the meaning of homosexuality though. I cant imagine my daughter grasping that concept right now, but all kids are different.

[Texsox]

Parents are ultimately responsible for their children's education. They can contract that out to schools, both public or private, or handle it themselves in a home school environment. They should not just hand over their kids, dust off their hands and say, I'm out of this, teach them whatever you think is important and give them back to me when you are done.

 

However, while I applaud his involvement, this school is plainly not for this family. They need to find a school that they are more comfortable attending.

 

The one point I agree with him is where is the tolerance for his view?

[Mercy!]

The only thing I can imagine in where this would come into play is teaching kids acceptance of different people and different lifestyles.  Kindergarten is awful young to try and teach them the meaning of homosexuality though.  I cant imagine my daughter grasping that concept right now, but all kids are different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You’re talking about “teaching.” I suspect the educators are talking about “respresenting.” Any more than having books showing people with dark skin means they discuss race or melanin production with these pre-schoolers. These books aren’t showing them pictures of Martians, but of the sorts of people they see around them daily.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Parents are ultimately responsible for their children's education. They can contract that out to schools, both public or private, or handle it themselves in a home school environment. They should not just hand over their kids, dust off their hands and say, I'm out of this, teach them whatever you think is important and give them back to me when you are done.

 

However, while I applaud his involvement, this school is plainly not for this family. They need to find a school that they are more comfortable attending.

 

The one point I agree with him is where is the tolerance for his view?

 

 

Havent you heard Tex? The people who preach tolerance the loudest seem to have none for views that contradict their own.

[southsider2k5]

I think it comes down to do kids have a right to be ignorant. Remember ignorant is a purposeful lack of knowledge. Do parents have the right to have their kids not learn something. How different would the arguement be if the district was teaching intelligent design instead of gay tolerance? Essentially it boils down to can an educational system require you to learn something that you in your heart *know* isn't true, and don't want your kids to learn? Another example, how about in a predominantly Muslim town like Dearborne Michigan. Say they decide by popular vote that they want their kids to take a class on the history of Islam. Why wouldn't Jewish, Christian etc parents have the right for their kids not to be taught something they don't believe.

[Texsox]

Havent you heard Tex?  The people who preach tolerance the loudest seem to have none for views that contradict their own.

 

Wow Nuke criticizes Republicans? Now I've read everything.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Wow Nuke criticizes Republicans? Now I've read everything.

 

 

Thats not what I meant and you know it.

[JUGGERNAUT]

I saw this on ABC news the other night. It's just another sign that liberals have no credibility.

 

On the one hand we have the courts stating that an opt-out policy from school prayer is not sufficient because of the social consequence that student or parents could face. But here we have a school not even willing to provide the parent insurance that the student can opt-out without consequence on grades.

 

Double standard. Moral relativism at it's worst.

 

Personally K-8 school should be focused on Reading, Writing, Math. & Physical Science. Morality should be taught in CCD, at Home, or from other community based organizations. There is a fine line between social science, psychology, & morality and that is best left outside of a state institution which is suppose to draw a line between Church & State (Morality & Law).

 

Likewise what this school is forcing is acceptance. It has nothing to do with tolerance. It's okay to teach that kindness should be the rule of thumb for treating others. Including those who some view as living sinful lifes. But it's not okay to force students into a relavists viewpoint of what is & is not a sinful life. That's what the school is forcing here.

 

In the end this will simply provide another issue for the Republicans to use in the local elections in MA & elsewhere. One of these days liberals will figure it out. The more they push the less they pull voters to their side.

[KipWellsFan]

It's just another sign that liberals have no credibility.

 

You're such a dork. How's that for credibility!

[Texsox]

Thats not what I meant and you know it.

 

Sorry, I forgot how tolerant the GOP is. Tolerant of money laundering, conspiracy, and constitutional amendments to limit Homosexual Marriage. I was listening to Rush, Hannity, Savage, and how tolerant they are and getting all misty eyed.

 

Yes dems have little or no tolerance for haters, they are free to join the GOP.

 

Neither party has a monopoly on welcoming all views or not welcoming. To somehow imply that trait is more prevalent in one party or the other, just isn't fair.

[Texsox]

I saw this on ABC news the other night.  It's just another sign that liberals have no credibility.

Parker, 43, was so upset at the response to his demand that he refused to leave after a meeting with administrators at Joseph Estabrook School in April.

 

Police arrested him. Parker declined to post bail and spent the night in jail; his trespassing trial is set for today. For now, the district has banned him from school property.

I think the guy has plenty of GOP credibility when he wouldn't leave the school because he didn't get his way. If that's the kind of credibility the GOP is searching for, they are doomed. I wonder if he held his breath until he turned blue? At least Dems are smart enough to have a camera crew notified and to have bail money available Geez do it right next time.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Some of you don't get it. But considering that the SOX fans split 50/30 between Democrats & Republicans I'm not surprised.

 

Because of the harsh treatment this parent received the story got National news. If they had been more reasonable they would never have happened. Now the GOP throughout the nation has more ammo to fire at the Democrats on the issue of gay marriage & how it threatens our school system.

 

This is a dream come true for the GOP. Not only does this issue affect gay-marriage but even better the sinful liberal influence on our school systems. Nothing sells a hypothetical better than reality. Especially when it's occuring amongst 5-6 yr olds.

Edited October 21, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[Texsox]

Some of you don't get it.  But considering that the SOX fans split 50/30 between Democrats & Republicans I'm not surprised.

 

Because of the harsh treatment this parent received the story got National news.  If they had been more reasonable they would never have happened.  Now the GOP throughout the nation has more ammo to fire at the Democrats on the issue of gay marriage & how it threatens our school system. 

 

This is a dream come true for the GOP.  Not only does this issue affect gay-marriage but even better the sinful liberal influence on our school systems.  Nothing sells a hypothetical better than reality.  Especially when it's occuring amongst 5-6 yr olds. 

 

So the parents were unreasonable so it would happen? Where the parents seeking national attention or did they really believe in what they are saying?

[JUGGERNAUT]

boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/10/03/petition_bid_to_ban_gay_marriage_said_to_gain

Need: 65,825 certified signatures. Expect: 120,000 signatures.

It would appear on the 2008 ballot. No doubt it will play a role in local elections before then.

 

This will only add more fuel to the fire.

[JUGGERNAUT]

So the parents were unreasonable so it would happen? Where the parents seeking  national attention or did they really believe in what they are saying?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Where were the parents unreasonable? They asked for an opt-out policy that would not impact their child's grades. The school refused. The parent choose to stage a sit-in until the school reconsidered. The school filed charges & had the the parent arrested.

 

Translation to the masses: Public schools don't give a rats arse what a parent thinks.

 

Like I said the GOP couldn't have scripted it any better.

[Texsox]

A same sex couple is allowed to adopt in America. What was in the book is legal. That is the only standard the public schools can adopt. Morality is an individual belief. At the minimum, the community decides policy, a school board was elected, and this is the results. The family can opt out of this system. There are alternatives. If they care enough to conduct an overnight sit in at the jail, they should care enough to find a faith based education system that follows their beliefs.

 

The public school cannot conduct business if they begin allowing customized eduction for children. It would lead to this

 

"OK class, on to the next lesson. Billy, Juan, Suzy, and Lashuan you have to leave, tell Randy and Chris to come back, and let Mohamed know he has a choice depending on how he's feeling."

 

So the GOP will argue that public schools need to customize the education program to a parent's belief system. Will they actually pay for that?

[Mercy!]

Mr. Parker moved from out of state into an overwhelmingly liberal community. He decided he didn’t like the school curriculum and started sending a blizzard of emails during a 3 month period making demands that his child’s school change its policies to suit him. He then staged a confrontation by arranging a school meeting and refusing to leave until all his demands were met, forcing the authorities to call the police.

 

Two detectives and a lieutenant tried to convince him to leave, but he declared “If I’m not under arrest then I’m not leaving.” At the police station, he refused to pay the $40 bail ensuring that he could spend a night in jail and would have to appear in court in handcuffs the next day, maximizing the publicity value of his stunt.

 

As you can see from the scope of his final demand, Mr. Parker would have required that his son be whisked away if a fellow student even brought up the topic, or if a gay parent volunteered at a class function. His demand was so unreasonable that I get the feeling that it was calculated to fail for a larger political purpose.

 

Here’s a typical email:

 

Date: Friday, March 4, 2005

Subject: David and Tonia Parker's Parental Rights Assertion

 

We would like to clarify that our previous e-mail which states: "we do not give the Lexington Public School system permission to discuss homosexuality issues (i.e. - trans gender/bisexual/gay headed households) to our son [son's name]" - is a parental assertion; not a matter open to legal interpretation or administrative policy. Let us, David and Tonia Parker, parents of [son's name], be clear in purpose and prose on this matter:

 

Discussions concerning homosexuality issues will not take place in front of our son, [son's name] (5 yrs old), at Estabrook. This includes material given to [our son] to covertly transport into our household (i.e.- diversity book bag). Such doctrine is against our Christian family beliefs. We will be notified when there are plans to have homosexual material discussed with the students - when [our son] is present - so that we can take action to ensure his spiritual safety. You are not permitted to infringe upon our religious beliefs and parental rights or obviate our freedom of choice, to exclude our son from material that would expose him to beliefs contrary to the Word of God in our Christian faith. Our parental rights and Christian belief system will be respected in this diversity- oriented, anti-biased school community. We know other parents, of various faiths and values, that endorse this position. This is not solely a Christian assertion of rights.

 

May God bless everyone who reads this to be shown his Love and truth of his Word.

 

In Christ,

Dave and Tonia Parker

 

Here’s his final demand:

 

We, Tonia and David Parker, are once again requesting that we be notified when gay headed households/same sex union/transgender/bisexual issues are exposed to our child at Estabrook when teachers/staff/adults partake in these discussions.

The undersigned, Superintendent of the Lexington Public Schools, agrees that we will not only be notified when these discussions are planned but in addition agrees to an automatic opt out for our child when such discussions arise spontaneously to be enforced by those in authoritative control. Accordingly key teachers and staff must be notified (those that have authoritative control over our son at Estabrook) so that these accommodations may be implemented.

[JUGGERNAUT]

I agree with him 100% & I believe the majority of Americans do as well. What's more I think in MA in 2008 we will find the majority in that state agree too.

 

What shocks me in America & it is clearly orchestrated by sinful liberals is that this stuff ever enters into school. I have friends & colleagues around the world & this stuff never gets the gold standard treatment in their schools like it does here. They marvel at the culture war in America & they do agree with me that it's mostly the fault of liberals trying to impose their ideology on the rest of us.

 

Is it any wonder that America's public schools continue to fall behind when the rest are devoting their time & energy to teach reading, writing, math & physical science while we feud over garbage issues like this that serve as nothing more than a waste of time that could be put to better use?

 

I've got a novel idea. Why don't we first teach the kids to excel in reading comprehension, writing composition, math, & physical science before moral relativism? Oh wait. I forgot this is a public school. That's too much of a burden on the teachers.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Though this is semi-related it needs to be said. America is in for a rude-awakening & the quicker we can wrestle education away from the liberals the better.

 

In Asia, Latin America, & Europe, & the CIS most public schools are teaching English in K-9. They don't have time for BS like moral relativism. The public education there is far superior to ours. That's why they are turning out a greater % of engineers & scientists these days.

 

One of these days we can only hope that liberals realize everybody's s*** stinks including theirs. Tour Japan & you will find a completely different perspective on their involvement in WW II than we have. Their s*** stinks & stinks good! They still to this day justify their reasons for that war & deny their association in the axis of evil. Their museums downplay all negative associations as well. Everybody's s*** stinks so keep it to yourself & stop forcing it on others.

 

Note to the kids: s*** is NOT a bad word. That's a myth.

[Balta1701]

boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/10/03/petition_bid_to_ban_gay_marriage_said_to_gain

Need: 65,825 certified signatures.  Expect: 120,000 signatures.

It would appear on the 2008 ballot.  No doubt it will play a role in local elections before then.

 

This will only add more fuel to the fire.

If you're going to point out the number of signatures, I might as well point out the current polling data.

 

2. There will be a proposed constitutional amendment on the 2008 ballot that would require the state; county and local governments to license and recognize only those marriages between a man and a woman. It would prohibit future same sex marriages but continue to recognize those entered into already. How likely are you to support this amendment?

%

Very  30

 

Somewhat 10

 

Not Very 9

 

Not at all 47

 

Don't Know/Ref 5

In other words, that amendment right now is already behind by quite a bit in that state. And it's probably almost inevitable that as time goes on and people in that state actually see and meet happily married homosexual couples, and Jesus does not return and throw a lightning bolt at the state...it's going to become harder and harder for that referendum to pass.

[Balta1701]

In Asia, Latin America, & Europe, & the CIS most public schools are teaching English in K-9.  They don't have time for BS like moral relativism.  The public education there is far superior to ours.  That's why they are turning out a greater % of engineers & scientists these days.

Or B.S. Like Intelligent Design.

[Mercy!]

I agree with him 100% & I believe the majority of Americans do as well.

Then you can’t be either a conservative or a Republican. The school system in Lexington, MA is functioning exactly how our system of government intended.