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gold gloves


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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 07:12 PM)
AJ Pierzynski will not win a gold glove.  We not only had the pitcher with the highest wild pitch total in the league...we had 2 different pitchers tied for the highest wild pitch total in the league.  AJ's arm throwing out guys was nothing extremely special, and his work stopping the ball in the dirt wasn't incredible.  Don't get me wrong, I love the work AJ has done this season, but he will not win a gold glove behind the plate.

AJ made 1 error in 1,117 innings.

 

No other catcher made less than 3. The concensus choice, Ivan Rodriguez made 4 in 1,032 innings.

 

I admit I put much more emphasis on not making errors than most observers, its true with all my picks. I wasn't trying to predict who would win the GG, just how I would vote, if I had a vote.

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QUOTE(TLAK @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 07:00 PM)
My picks:

 

Pos    TM.    Player
RF.    SEA   Ichiro Suzuki       
CF.    SEA   Jeremy Reed         
LF.    TBD   Carl Crawford       
SS.    TBD   Julio Lugo          
3B.    DET   Brandon Inge        
2B.    TOR   Orlando Hudson      
1B.    DET   Chris Shelton       
C..    CHW   A.J. Pierzynski     
P..    CLE   Jake Westbrook

Why the f*** would Carl Crawford win a Gold Glove?

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QUOTE(TLAK @ Oct 25, 2005 -> 12:22 AM)
AJ made 1 error in 1,117 innings. 

 

No other catcher made less than 3.  The concensus choice, Ivan Rodriguez made 4 in 1,032 innings.

 

I admit I put much more emphasis on not making errors than most observers, its true with all my picks.  I wasn't trying to predict who would win the GG, just how I would vote, if I had a vote.

If you put a lot of emphasis on players not making errors why would you put Julio Lugo as your choices for SS when he had 24 errors this season? He is a butcher at Short most of the time.

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I can't believe that Joe Crede isn't mentioned in the same breath as Alex Rodriguez. What does a guy have to do to get some respect? Get three more tough grounders like he did in Game 1?

Forget A-Rod. My vote is on Crede.

Also, I don't think AJ is going to get it due to his CS percentage...wait a sec, is that factored in as well?

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QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 07:31 PM)
If you put a lot of emphasis on players not making errors why would you put Julio Lugo as your choices for SS when he had 24 errors this season?  He is a butcher at Short most of the time.

 

Crawford and lugo? Must be a devil rays fan. ;)

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in a perfect word

CF aaron rowand

3b Crede

SS Juan Uribe

SP mark buehrle

C Aj Pierzinsky.

 

But that wont happen, but im my mind they are incredible fielders, i know im a bit biased maybe, but based on watching them all year, and not on stats, id love to see any one of them win it :D. tho most liekly the only one who will - will be aaron.

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 07:27 PM)
Why the f*** would Carl Crawford win a Gold Glove?

2 errors in 1,246 innings and by far the best range factor of anyone who played more than 100 innings in LF.

 

I went by position, if I grouped all the OF I certainly would have had Wells and a couple others ahead of him too. It was my vote, I can do it any way I want.

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QUOTE(TLAK @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 07:39 PM)
2 errors in 1,246 innings and by far the best range factor of anyone who played more than 100 innings in LF. 

 

I went by position, if I grouped all the OF I certainly would have had Wells and a couple others ahead of him too.  It was my vote, I can do it any way I want.

Why are you so hung up on errors? That's not exactly the best indicator of a good OFer.

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 07:40 PM)
Why are you so hung up on errors? That's not exactly the best indicator of a good OFer.

The downside of an error, by definition a play the pitcher should rightfully expect to be made behind him, is so devastating that I'm starting to feel it's more important than the occasional sensational play. I've been preaching since spring that any team where the guys all just do their jobs is hard to beat. I might just be overreacting to guys the media hypes the hell out of but, who, when I watch the games, cost their teams wins -- guys like Torii Hunter.

 

Its just me, don't read too much into it.

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QUOTE(iWiN4PreP @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 05:38 PM)
in a perfect word

CF aaron rowand

3b Crede

SS Juan Uribe

SP mark buehrle

C Aj Pierzinsky.

 

But that wont happen, but im my mind they are incredible fielders, i know im a bit biased maybe, but based on watching them all year, and not on stats, id love to see any one of them win it :D. tho most liekly the only one who will - will be aaron.

Crede had a couple of key drops this year that cost us games. That really hurt him in my book...especially when he's trying to overcome an entrenched guy like Chavez.

 

Uribe had too many errors, especially early in the year when he was still getting used to being at short every day.

 

Rowand would not win if Hunter was healthy. But Rowand deserves one.

 

If MB doesn't win one...the only reason he wouldn't would be that 1 bad throw in the game against Oakland which led to a big inning. That's the only one. Aside from that 1 throw he's the best fielding pitcher in the AL.

 

Pierzynski needs to get better at blocking balls in the dirt in order to win a gold glove. A lot better. Catchers aren't charged with errors when the balls go through their legs, only when they throw a ball away or misplay something when the ball is being thrown to them. Wild Pitches/Passed balls have to be taken into account with catchers in addition to errors. That's why AJ falls down my list a lot.

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QUOTE(TLAK @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 05:53 PM)
The downside of an error, by definition a play the pitcher should rightfully expect to be made behind him, is so devastating that I'm starting to feel it's more important than the occasional sensational play.  I've been preaching since spring that any team where the guys all just do their jobs is hard to beat.  I might just be overreacting to guys the media hypes the hell out of but, who, when I watch the games, cost their teams wins -- guys like Torii Hunter.

 

Its just me, don't read too much into it.

The problem with an error is that you could have it where Aaron Rowand gets a great break on the ball, gets right under it, and has it bounce off of his glove turn into an error while Ken Griffey Jr. or Bernie Williams would run after that ball and be 20 feet away from it when it lands.

 

You just can't tell everything from an error. When you have more range, you have more errors. If you've got a flyball pitching staff and youre an outfielder, you have more errors. Or if you have a cutoff man who doesn't know how to catch the ball, you get more errors.

 

Think about this...how many errors would a guy like Aramis Ramirez have at 3rd base if he didn't have Derek Lee at 1b? In fact, I can tell you:

 

2003 (with the Pirates for 2/3 of the year:) 33 errors

2004 : 10 errors

2005: 16 errors.

 

Just by putting him with a 1b who could dig out his throws, he became a much better 1st baseman. All these things work together. More range versus less range, better arm versus weaker arm, accuracy, ability of your teammates, etc.

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 07:59 PM)
The problem with an error is that you could have it where Aaron Rowand gets a great break on the ball, gets right under it, and has it bounce off of his glove turn into an error while Ken Griffey Jr. or Bernie Williams would run after that ball and be 20 feet away from it when it lands.

 

You just can't tell everything from an error.  When you have more range, you have more errors.  If you've got a flyball pitching staff and youre an outfielder, you have more errors.  Or if you have a cutoff man who doesn't know how to catch the ball, you get more errors.

 

Think about this...how many errors would a guy like Aramis Ramirez have at 3rd base if he didn't have Derek Lee at 1b?  In fact, I can tell you:

 

2003 (with the Pirates for 2/3 of the year:) 33 errors

2004 : 10 errors

2005: 16 errors.

 

Just by putting him with a 1b who could dig out his throws, he became a much better 1st baseman.  All these things work together.  More range versus less range, better arm versus weaker arm, accuracy, ability of your teammates, etc.

Grinder rule # 5698

 

Never try to prove a point on SoxTalk using a cub player for your example.

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QUOTE(iWiN4PreP @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 05:59 PM)
thank you for the explanation, just sucks that uribe / crede not going to get it IMO, they been great this year for us.

The one that really sucks in my opinion is Crede not getting it. He doesn't have the range Chavez does according to the numbers on the season, but he's very very close, and he had a better %age than Chavez by a fair amount also.

 

Barring a big increase in range, CHavez would probably have gotten it anyway just based on offensive numbers/name recognition. If you take into account that Crede played a lot less fewer innings than Chavez, Crede only would have had a handful fewer attempts/putouts than Chavez (by like 10 over the entire season) and 4 fewer errors, and those #'s in my book would have earned it for him.

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QUOTE(TLAK @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 06:02 PM)
Grinder rule # 5698

 

Never try to prove a point on SoxTalk using a cub player for your example.

Dude, sorry, but it's the most obvious combo of terrible defensive player and incredible defensive player saving his ass in all of baseball.

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QUOTE(iWiN4PreP @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 05:59 PM)
thank you for the explanation, just sucks that uribe / crede not going to get it IMO, they been great this year for us.

Also, I think Uribe will have a great shot at one next year. I can't get the data to sort like this anywhere I look, but if memory serves, he had quite a few more errors early in the season than he did after the first month or two when he really settled in at short.

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 07:59 PM)
Think about this...how many errors would a guy like Aramis Ramirez have at 3rd base if he didn't have Derek Lee at 1b?  In fact, I can tell you:

 

 

OK, I looked him up although I risked getting a computer virus finding his stats.

 

In 2002 he made 19 errors in 131 games for a .946 Fpct with Kevin Young as his usual 1B. In .03 he made 23 errors in 96 games with Pitt, mostly Randall Simon at first and 10 errors in 63 games with the blue vermin, usually Eric Karros at 1B although Simon came over about the same time, .929 Fpct on the year.

 

In 2004 he made 10 Errors, 141 games, .969 with Lee. In 2005 he made 16 errors in 119 games for a .947 Fpct with Lee. -- about the same as he did with Young.

 

Looks to me like Lee's magic wore off, Erroramis regressed to about his '02 level. Despite playing with the greatest first baseman ever born, he has returned to his rightfull place near the bottom of the NL third basemen.

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