1549 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 well worth seeing and I wouldn't mind some discussion on what it means - I have not seen it yet, but I do not remember an christian imagery in the first one...I guess I am shallow when it comes to symbolism, unless it is thrown right there in front of me (example: the greenlight in the great gatsby) On a matter not related to the Matrix, I think scarface is up there with the great flicks. My spanish teacher even showed some of that movie in spanish class. My jaw hit the floor when he said he brought Scarface in to show us. He only showed the very beginning though, because he said that they asked him the same exact questions when they caught him coming over from cuba illegally. The beginning with the written part about cubans coming to america is actually pretty informative. "Did you get that scar eating pussy?" "how do I get a scar like this, eating pussy?" and obviously the most famous line in the flick "say hello to my little friend" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Want to see a really good film, check out Rabbit Proof Fence. I knew nothing about it when I rented it on the advice of friends and it was totally unlike what I expected - well worth seeing, I strongly recommend it. I was blown away by this low-key meditation on childhood and institutionized, no, culturalized, racism. Right up there with another Australian/New Zelandian masterpiece, Walkabout . Good to see Kenny Bra drop his Olivier schtick for a change. The very last "reunion" sequence was so unforgettable I nearly got chocked up. Glad to see you liked Ran as well. Great epic. If you're a fan of Eastern epic fantasies and like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, I suggest you watch Hero with Jet Lee, Zhang Ziyi. In way a superior movie, with the most beautiful visual effects I've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Matrix the first is loaded with Christian imagry and theology and this one more so - if nothing else, look up the meanings of names like Neo, Morpheus, Zion, etc., the chosen One, and see it again - in the new one we have betrayal with a kiss, hope, prophecy, resurrection as an act of love, and the delayed parousia (second coming) of Christ - the Matrix series was intended to be as symbolic of Christianity as can be without Jesus playing the lead - the theology of the Matrix is total Christian thought - actually, Christian neo-platonism if you really want to search it out - the Matrix authors also are involved in something called Landmark Education, see http://www.top100expo.com/ListFromTo.asp?f...from=001&to=020 And go to #2, The Landmark Forum. I have not checked that link yet but it comes to from a pastor in the church body that I belong to who is an incredible Matrix buff as well as a regular attenbee of Landmark events - kind of funny you all are seeing the most Chrstian films of the last 100 years and didn't realize it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Another great movie last year was Brazilian City of God, a weird hybrid between Fiction and Y Tu Mama Tambien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I was blown away by this low-key meditation on childhood and institutionized, no, culturalized, racism. Right up there with another Australian/New Zelandian masterpiece, Walkabout . Good to see Kenny Bra drop his Olivier schtick for a change. The very last "reunion" sequence was so unforgettable I nearly got chocked up. Glad to see you liked Ran as well. Great epic. If you're a fan of Eastern epic fantasies and like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, I suggest you watch Hero with Jet Lee, Zhang Ziyi. In way a superior movie, with the most impressive visual effects I've ever seen. glad you loved it and was blown away by it - what an incredible film! I am flattering myself that you saw it on my recommendation - but if you recommend it to others, never tell them who is in it or what it is about - it is such a total surprise that makes it ever more gripping - I had no clue that ever went on and since I had no idea what the movie was about, I was just so involved - and I didn't even realize it was Branaugh for most of the movie which is a good thing - that is great acting to elt the movie speak and not your acting - I agree the ending was incredibly powerful - I was so engrossed by that whole movie - always trust my movie recommendations - if nothing else I say means a damned thing to anyone, trust my movie comments - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Another great movie last year was Brazilian City of God, a weird hybrid between Fiction and Y Tu Mama Tambien. I haven't see City of God yet but am anxious to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I meant to say Pulp Fiction, not Fiction, duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I meant to say Pulp Fiction, not Fiction, duh. I knew that... cinemistas understand each other! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I meant to say Pulp Fiction, not Fiction, duh. What about Reservoir Dogs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 What about Reservoir Dogs? Resivouir Dogs is a great film - but although I haven't seen City of God yet, that would not be an antecedent to City of God, as I understand it - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I knew that... cinemistas understand each other! True dat, but no excuse for having one of HSC's patented blond moments, lol Matrix Reloaded revolutionary visuals go without saying (I am not too thrilled about the action-over-brains direction of the franchise, though and the whole Christian Neo-Platonism angle is perfunctory to say the least, though I'd wait until the Revolutions), but Hero has 4-5 moments of pure trascendent, majestic beauty that you simply don't associate with HongKong wire-action genre. Amazing. Other 2002 movies I liked for different reasons: Russian Ark, Out of Africa, Spirirted Away, X-2, Adaptation,. I despise Chicago (almost as much as that Masturbatory Edit-o-rama known as BUZZ LURHMAN'S moulin rouge). What a pedestrian, crowd-pleasing toothless satire that soils Bob Fosse's legacy. CZJ was spectacular, though, just pefect for the role and ReZe was pretty good I guess. (Then again, it's still better than last year's "safe"winner, Beautiful Mind. ) Are you familiar with Pauline Kael? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 for serious Matrix interpretation, especially in regards to its Christian theological underpinning: matrix links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 for serious Matrix interpretation, especially in regards to its Christian theological underpinning: Oh, it would take more than Philippe K. Dick's "reality vs perception" theme and religious symbolism to make the movie deep. Afterall, 21st century auterism Wachowski brothers adhere to are ass post-modern as they are "less than meets the eye". It's a perfect movie to allow room for personal projection/suggestive interpretation, which I feel is cheating in the end....not that I care either way. Then again, on purely brainy action level, Matrix is as good as it gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Are you familiar with Pauline Kael? Am I familar with Eddie Collins, Luke Appling, Ray Schalk, Red Faber and Ted Lyons? Am I familiar with the Apostle Paul, Freud, Luther, Galileo, Plato, and Edison? Am I familar with the sui generis of it all? Surely that was a rhetorical question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Hey, man, I loved Red Faber's Book of Tools! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 : Oh, it would take more than Philippe K. Dick's "reality vs perception" theme and religious symbolism to make the movie deep. Afterall, 21st century auterism Wachowski brothers adhere to are ass post-modern as they are "less than meets the eye". It's a perfect movie to allow room for personal projection/suggestive interpretation, which I feel is cheating in the end....not that I care either way. Then again, on purely brainy action level, Matrix is as good as it gets. To say that the Matrix has serious Christian theology at its root is not a claim for or against its being deep. That one could go either way. To say the Matrix has serious Christian underpinings is analagous to saying C. S. Lewis' Narnia stories has serious Christian underpinnings - pure fact. Being dismissive of the foundation of the Matrix's Christian theology because you personally reject Christian theology is to reject the intent of the authors as well as academic soundness. One can be "too cool" for one's own good. The personal and subjective projection is in rejecting major themes of a work of art because you have a pejorative view of its roots. Would you deny the Magic Flute is about Masonic thought if you didn't like the Masons? Would you deny Guernica is anti-war if you are pro-war? Wpuld you reject the Gilgamesh Epic as being Mesapotamian religious thoughst if you thought that was paganism? Would you deny the meaning of the 1812 Overture if you were Napoleonic French? Would you deny The Crime of Padre Amaro is a scathing indictment of the Church if you were a devout church person? Granting a work its own integity is the beginning of understanding. To presuppose one's own perspectives on the motives of others denies meaning. And being too hip and above it all is sometimes (often) its own prison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjmarte Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I just got to see it tonight for the first time. A group from my church went on Wednesday night (don't ask me how I didn't think it was opening until Thursday) but I'm not big on crowds and Tuesday is bring your own bucket for popcorn night, bring any plastic bucket and get it filled up for 50 cents. Anyway, I tried not to get my hopes up too much. I've heard lots of mixed reviews. I thought it was great. Just like CW I didn't think it was a perfect movie but the amount of religious philosophy underlying the plot had my head spinning. I need to get ahold of the script and read the whole conversation with the creator dude a few times to try to get my head around it. My favorite scene in that respect was the one with the French guy, can't remember his name. The action was really cool too. I didn't care for the Agent Smith scene, too obviously computer generated, but the 20 - 25 minute fight/chase scene in the middle of the movie was really cool. Couple of things I thought were kind of queer but I wasn't dissapointed at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjmarte Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 for serious Matrix interpretation, especially in regards to its Christian theological underpinning: matrix links I like this one: Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted May 21, 2003 Author Share Posted May 21, 2003 I think that the people who didnt like it were those who didnt understand it as well as they did the first one. I stick by my initial statement..... the best movie I've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Anyway, I tried not to get my hopes up too much. I've heard lots of mixed reviews. I thought it was great. Just like CW I didn't think it was a perfect movie but the amount of religious philosophy underlying the plot had my head spinning. I need to get ahold of the script and read the whole conversation with the creator dude a few times to try to get my head around it. My favorite scene in that respect was the one with the French guy, can't remember his name. Good call on the scene with the French guy - it was the perfect theological monologue - also interesting link and enjoyed (agreed with) your other comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASHWOUND Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 and if nobody has seen this yet, this site has the dialog with Neo and the Architecht. http://www.theantitrust.net/articles/viewa...p?articleid=108. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjmarte Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 and if nobody has seen this yet, this site has the dialog with Neo and the Architecht. http://www.theantitrust.net/articles/viewa...p?articleid=108. That rocks. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 Try me....lol, lemme jus' say that my list includes Chongqing Senlin, Last Tango In Paris and Jim et Jules. And, no, I am not Pauline Kaelist, thankyouverymuch. I'm not Pauline Kael, or Siskel and Ebert or anything like that either. I am a great admirer of the late Akiro Kurosawa the great Japanese director. Rashomon is my all time favorite movie, and no I don't speak Japanese. Also liked his movie Stray Dog. My favorite American movie is High Noon the 1952 classic with Gary Cooper. The scene at the end where he throws his badge in the dirt is classic. Grace Kelly always gets to me, I can't think of a modern actress with anything close to her beauty and for the lack of a better term sex appeal. I shall stop now before eyes glaze over or start to roll. I don't care much for Siskel or Ebert either, but Pauline Kael was the best American film reviewer in the last 50 years IMO, and two of the 3 pics I mentioned just happened to be her favorites as well, by coincidence naturally, lol...I absolutely love Kurosawa's take on King Lear- Ran...which was made largely thanks to Scorsese securing much of the financing. Sergio Leone and Clint Eastwood (Fisful of dollars, The Good, bad, ugly, etc) totally ripped offf Kurosawa's Samurai Trilogy and Magnificent Seven is just Seven Samurai set in the West...not to mention that f*** King George Lucas shamelessly used The Hidden Fortress idea to make the original Star Wars without any credit or compensation whatsoever...Master Akira would be on my top 5 directors of last 50 years list easily, up there with Bergman, Kubrick, Scorsese and Triffaut. As far as regal Grace Kelly goes, ironically enough she was the biggest slut that ever slutted, a regular carnivorous man-eater, sorta like the hybrid between Julia Roberts and Wanna Ride'er....Sorry. Nothing to be sorry about. Whatever she did and whoever she did it with she still beats most of the so called "starlets" of today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 The reviver of old dead threads would like to list a few of his favorite off beat movies in no particular order. 1. Asphalt Jungle 1950 2. The Wild One 1952 I think 3. Invasion of the Body Snatchers -1956 4. Mean Streets one of Scorceses earliest think it was early 70's 5. Blue Collar - both serious and a laugh riot with three of my favorites Richard Pryor, Yaphet Kotto and Harvey Keitel around 1975 I think. 6. The Conversation- Gene Hackman and a pre Laverne and Shirley Cindy Williams. I always wanted to have a brief but torrid affair with her, needless to say it never happened. Harrrison Ford also had a small role. 1974 I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 One more thing. The music in The Wild One is jazz of the highest order. The Album Jazz Themes From the Wild One is a collectors item and if anyone knows where I could get one I would be greatly obliged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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