IndySoxFan Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 jerry manuel has taken alot of undue criticism from many fans and many who post here. Jerry is often asked his opinion of the low turnout at the park and he always defends sox fans by saying that forteen thousand sox fans make enough noise for thirty thousand. all the players defend him. i think it was jose who was recently quoted as saying the problem with the sox was not jerry, but that the sox are simply not hitting the ball. this after jerry remarked in the paper that the problem with the sox was not management... it is that the guys are not hitting the ball! that's the fact.... many of our big money guys are hitting way below their career averages. only frank thomas, a guy with an uncurable foot in mouth birth defect, made a feeble attempt to divert attention from his glaring inability to come around on anything inside, bashed jerry. "you go up there and face what i get every day and see how good you do at the plate", said the former hall of famer and perpetual idiot. no kidding. gee wow, it has come to this. the all-time white sox home run leader needs a 170 pound middle aged man to pinch hit for him. and even after this moronacy jerry got himself thrown out of a game defending the clown..."i had to back my sparring partner"..... he defends and protects all his players.... and later the frank himself downplayed the incident...."jerry and i are fine". jerry has shown himself to be ironic, sarcastic, and witty. these are the attributes of an intelligent man. and he is a leader. ask yourself, who would you rather work for, a guy like jerry manuel or a loudmouth blow-hard like bobby valentine. jerry led this team to success in 2000. kenny the punk has done nothing but make "bold" trades. none to date have made the sox any better than the 2000 team. tony LaRussa is not comng back. hire a GM who supports jerrys leadership style. it is still mid-early in the season, but i still think we have a team who can do some damage in october. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 i have not now, nor ever bashed on jm... hes not where my disgust lies.... i dont like kw and that will never change....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndySoxFan Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 when schu retired i wanted the sox to pick a winner.... kenny from day one has always struck me as being a little naive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeportHeather Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Well, one thing about KW is that he makes gusty moves, but they don't seem to work out. It's not his fault they're not working out when you look at how said players were before coming here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 When I saw the title of this thread, I thought "lay off Jerry Manuel" was a polite way of saying "fire Jerry Manuel". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 I don't like KW because of much-discussed "manipulative egomaniac" factor, BUT... It's not his fault they're not working out when you look at how said players were before coming here. Glover, Marte, DJ, Olivo, Koch, Harris, Gordon, Colon, Daubach, Loaiza are all either producing starters or will be shortly IMHO. In addition, he singlehandedly revitalized our SP class with Felix Diaz, Yofu and Neal Cotts. In anything, it's his "safe" plays--Wells, Ritchie, Adkins--that have backfired. Horribly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndySoxFan Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 ok... i think jerry is a guy oozing with integrity and class... who would you put in his place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeportHeather Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Glover, Marte, DJ, Olivo, Koch, Harris, Gordon, Colon, Daubach, Loaiza are all either producing starters or will be shortly IMHO. Yes, BUT, I think a big reason he's being bashed so much is because of how the experiments with Ritchie and David Wells worked out. People are overlooking what he HAS done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeportHeather Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 ok... i think jerry is a guy oozing with integrity and class... who would you put in his place? Integrity and class doesn't necessarily fire up a ballclub. I'd put Backman in there for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Yes, BUT, I think a big reason he's being bashed so much is because of how the experiments with Ritchie and David Wells worked out. People are overlooking what he HAS done. David Wells is not his fault; had the cocksucker taken care of his back a little better in the offseason(s), it would have been a good signing, no doubt especially in light of the fact that Marky-Mark credits Wells for his break-through.....He also gets a semi-pass from me on the Durham situ because with CBA/strike thing impending and with the Sox being clearly out of it and unable to pay his huge tab, I don't believe A's would have given up Mark Mulder, ya now what I mean? Still, he should have demanded high-risk/high-reward Adam Piatt instead of a high-risk/medium reward AAA wannabe he ended up getting. Which bring us to the Ritchie Fiasco, a terrible move in retrospect, one that robbed us of a 2nd and 4th starters for years to come and gave us a guy with 6.00+ ERA....This trade is the ONLY reason why KW is not up there with the best young GMs in the game IMO...and at the time, if you remember, many people hated Wells's guts and couldn't give a flying f*** about Fog, while Ritchie was considered a good pitcher, certainly better than Loiza was up until this year. I am not making an excuse, but it's not lik the Pirates knew what they were getting either. I truly believe that in 5-10 years, Kenny will be a good GM, I really do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndySoxFan Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 what would backman say or do different than jerry that would change the direction of this ballclub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndySoxFan Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 that is the problem with kenny williams..... his name will always be connected with that disasterous todd ritche trade... todd is an inning eater... right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Heather if half your moves work and half don't, thereby leaving you essentially at the same place, you aren't a good GM. You get paid to come through on more moves than you fail on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Heather if half your moves work and half don't, thereby leaving you essentially at the same place, you aren't a good GM. You get paid to come through on more moves than you fail on Then he must be a great GM because he "came through" on 80% of the moves he made....unless you belive that Koch, Gordon, Daybach and Harris are going to continue to suck for the rest of the season. Which I don't. Again, Wells (we gave up nothing), Adkins (Ray was as good as gone and I don't believe there were any great offers) and Ritchie (Fogg I can let go off, but Kip Wells is a rising star, though to be fair it was a fluke trade on so many levels) were his downfall. Not the percentage but the damage done by his few "misses"... However, let's not get carried away, injuries and severe undererformance have destroyed this team, and Kip Wells wouldn't have saved it last year, let's be reasonable, K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndySoxFan Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 again...yet what would you do different if YOU were the manager of this team.....? i really want to f***ing know.... i dig your insight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Well more of his "big moves" have backfired, ala wells and ritchie back to back years...sucks we gave up Kip Wells who would win 15+ games with anyone but the damn pirates. When i said you have to come through on more than half, that also includes how each move is weighted, i.e. a minor move that works isn't anything compared to signing wells...and even if we didn't "give up anything" for wells, it didn't help our team at all, and it's still a failed move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndySoxFan Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 i dont want to get off track here.... we know kenny williams is a chump.... what i want to know is what would make jerry manuel a world class manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Show some damn fire, don't play valentin against lefties, and learn how to manage a damn bullpen to start with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndySoxFan Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 ok... looking at the bullpen we got.... and the swiss-cheese defense .... how would you manage it?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 When did i say anything about defense? I don't know how much u can manage defense. But not just this year...the past few years he has sucked with his bullpen moves, IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Well more of his "big moves" have backfired, ala wells and ritchie back to back years...sucks we gave up Kip Wells who would win 15+ games with anyone but the damn pirates. When i said you have to come through on more than half, that also includes how each move is weighted, i.e. a minor move that works isn't anything compared to signing wells...and even if we didn't "give up anything" for wells, it didn't help our team at all, and it's still a failed move I simply can't blame Kenny for David Wells- who f***ing knew? Look at how he is doiung with the Yankees, for crying out loud...He also did wonders mentoring a nobody Burhle if anything else...Ritchie? Yes,, it was bad, hindsight 20/20, but tell me you didn't want Wells-Ritchie trade straight up back in late 2001...lol I hardly think Glover, Gordon, Koch, Marte, Loiza, Olivo, DJ, Cotts, Diaz, Yofu, Harris, Daubach, etc are "minor" their actual or potential contribution factored in...These people are INSTRUMENTAL to winning. (BTW I also forgot about Kenny Lofton, another sleeper trade, he carried the lowly Sox on his back for first two months with his stick, glove and baserunning (and a low salary ala Estban Loiaza) before pulling a muscle and ending up being platooned with "future" Rowand.. Kenny was very clutch for the Gains in the playoffs I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 I simply can't blame Kenny for David Wells- who f***ing knew? Look at how he is doiung with the Yankees, for crying out loud...He also did wonders mentoring a nobody Burhle if anything else...Ritchie? Yes,, it was bad, hindsight 20/20, but tell me you didn't want Wells-Ritchie trade straight up back in late 2001...lol I hardly think Glover, Gordon, Koch, Marte, Loiza, Olivo, DJ, Cotts, Diaz, Yofu, Harris, Daubach, etc are "minor" their actual or potential contribution factored in...These people are INSTRUMENTAL to winning. (BTW I also forgot about Kenny Lofton, another sleeper trade, he carried the lowly Sox on his back for first two months with his stick, glove and baserunning (and a low salary ala Estban Loiaza) before pulling a muscle and ending up being platooned with "future" Rowand.. Kenny was very clutch for the Gains in the playoffs I recall. Wells, one thing i always wonder is why he turned it around in New York. They made his ass get it together...something no one here knew how to make him do, and then he got injured. And no, i wouldn't have done a wells/ritchie trade...i was actually outraged over that deal, not so much the wells trade. I did not want to give up on Wells and i knew ritchie wasn't jacks***...i thought wells would work, i'll admit that. Now, hindsight is 20/20...however, that's how you judge GM's, you judge them on how their stuff pans out. When he wants a contract extension he doesn't say "didn't this deal look good to do at the time?" Of course it did to him...but he's based on the results of the deal...that's the reality of being a GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndySoxFan Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 ok and again.... what would you do as jerry manuel do different.... you know to improve the team....i know white sox fans are the most intelligent fans of the game....but what do we do to improve this teams record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 ok and again.... what would you do as jerry manuel do different.... you know to improve the team....i know white sox fans are the most intelligent fans of the game....but what do we do to improve this teams record? Please refer to the post i made at 3:36 am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndySoxFan Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 ok... so that post is the roadmap to success.... dont let anyone from the yankees see that.... else we be f***ed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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