Manny wants a trade again....to the ChiSOx

[fathom]

Neither do I, but Cheats certainly onto something.

 

Onto, or do you just mean "on" something?

[3E8]

I don't see Rowand, Marte, and El Duque netting Manny.

Brewers fans probably didn't see Podsednik and Vizcaino netting Carlos Lee either. You never know.

[Gene Honda Civic]

No team in baseball will trade for Duque to be a starting rotation pitcher.  He has serious health questions, and his contract isn't exactly cheap this season.  Rowand/Marte/Duque would get you laughed at by Theo.  To get Manny, it would more be like Contreras and Chris Young for Manny.

Boston's rotation is full of league average pitchers who are paid much more heavily than Duque. Perhaps I think too much of his value, but you are underestimating it.

 

Like I said. If Boston rejects that deal, FINE. Move on. It just so happened that many of Boston's needs (CF, SP, and RP) are players that we could easily replace. There will be other teams that would be happy to have those players I mentioned.

[fathom]

Boston's rotation is full of league average pitchers who are paid much more heavily than Duque. Perhaps I think too much of his value, but you are underestimating it.

 

Like I said. If Boston rejects that deal, FINE. Move on. It just so happened that many of Boston's needs (CF, SP, and RP) are players that we could easily replace. There will be other teams that would be happy to have those players I mentioned.

 

You really see Boston taking a chance on a pitcher with an enormous injury history after the health problems they had last year? If they're going to invest 5 million in a pitcher next season, they're going to find someone who they're sure can give them more than 20 starts. I can see the Red Sox or Rangers going after Loaiza. Remember, the Red Sox are big on stats. Marte isn't exactly their ideal lefty reliever with his splits.

[fathom]

My prediction is that the Red Sox trade for T. Hunter in the offseason after the Yankees sign Damon.

[CWSGuy406]

Red Sox could let Manny, Pedro, and Damon go after last season, and the Red Sox fans would have still shown up.  If KW would let PK, Frank, and Garland go after this season, the fan base would be up in arms.  The Red Sox have enough money that they can let one superstar go, and just sign another.  The White sox have a much better chance of signing a superstar that is within the organization, and not having to outbid other teams on an even playing surface.

 

If the Sox replaced Konerko with a viable replacement -- such as Manny -- the fanbase, IMO, wouldn't be in arms.

 

If we're going to be built around pitching and defense, why not market it? It seems pretty simple to market one of the majors best pitching prospects entering next year's rotation, under the wings of guys like Buehrle and Garland, along with diversity of guys like Pierzynski, Iguchi, and Uribe.

 

Then again, the marketing department is what I'm worried least about.

[SSH2005]

Red Sox could let Manny, Pedro, and Damon go after last season, and the Red Sox fans would have still shown up.  If KW would let PK, Frank, and Garland go after this season, the fan base would be up in arms.  The Red Sox have enough money that they can let one superstar go, and just sign another.  The White sox have a much better chance of signing a superstar that is within the organization, and not having to outbid other teams on an even playing surface.

 

And while the Bulls/Sox situation is different, it's still the same owner.  Not every fan is like me, you, SSH, or any other diehard who will support their team no matter what transactions they make. 

 

And don't ever same all fan bases are the same.  The two Chicago teams are perfect illustrations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point. Just like the Cubs started the season with a washed-up Burnitz in right field and Hollandsworth in left field, fans would still always show up. The Sox don't have the huge fan base like the Red Sox and Cubs that will show up to games regardless of personell moves.

[fathom]

If the Sox replaced Konerko with a viable replacement -- such as Manny -- the fanbase, IMO, wouldn't be in arms. 

 

 

I agree with that completely. However, it's not very likely that there would be a viable superstar available that we could get to replace PK. The point I was trying to make is that the Sox don't just draw people because of their name like the Yanks, Red Sox, and Cubs do.

 

I think the much more important aspect of something like Manny saying he might want to play for the Sox is that it would be great for the organization if this becomes a place where MLB players WANT to play. Ozzie could almost become a recruiter for latino players to come play here. It's too bad that Johan signed that extension already! Next stop....Miguel Cabrera

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(fathom @ Oct 29, 2005 -> 03:21 PM)

You really see Boston taking a chance on a pitcher with an enormous injury history after the health problems they had last year?  If they're going to invest 5 million in a pitcher next season, they're going to find someone who they're sure can give them more than 20 starts.  I can see the Red Sox or Rangers going after Loaiza.  Remember, the Red Sox are big on stats.  Marte isn't exactly their ideal lefty reliever with his splits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Red Sox will have no interest in Hernandez, but I do think Marte would be of interest. Of course, Mike Myers could be resigned tommorow and the need for Marte would be gone.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Oct 29, 2005 -> 03:26 PM)

Good point.  Just like the Cubs started the season with a washed-up Burnitz in right field and Hollandsworth in left field, fans would still always show up.  The Sox don't have the huge fan base like the Red Sox and Cubs that will show up to games regardless of personell moves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cub fans are one of a kind, but it isn't like they don't want to win. ha.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

No team in baseball will trade for Duque to be a starting rotation pitcher.  He has serious health questions, and his contract isn't exactly cheap this season.  Rowand/Marte/Duque would get you laughed at by Theo.  To get Manny, it would more be like Contreras and Chris Young for Manny.

 

That is not true in my opinion. That being said, the market for him will always be stronger for a team midseason when they are more desperate. I think Orlando is an intriguing option if you are a team like Washington, to reunite the brothers in a pitchers park, or Florida who could use a Cuban star and a flyball pitcher in that park. If we were to trade for Delgado, Hernandez would likely be a piece as some salary back there way.

[fathom]

That is not true in my opinion. That being said, the market for him will always be stronger for a team midseason when they are more desperate. I think Orlando is an intriguing option if you are a team like Washington, to reunite the brothers in a pitchers park, or Florida who could use a Cuban star and a flyball pitcher in that park. If we were to trade for Delgado, Hernandez would likely be a piece as some salary back there way.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Duque has surgery in the new few months on his shoulder. I'm also thinking that Hermanson might possibly require surgery.

[SSH2005]

El Duque has shown that he can't handle starting every 5 days before his arm eventually gets tired and he has to rest on the DL for a few weeks. He did this with the Yankees and with us. He is a long reliever / spot starter at best. El Duque is 40 years old and making $4.5 million next season. Did you guys forget that he ended the season with a 5.12 ERA? He also had a 1.46 WHIP. I really don't see El Duque having much trade value.

Edited October 29, 2005 by SSH2005

[redandwhite]

he will be making $6.0 million dollars next year, but yes I agree with you, he holds no value.

[3E8]

he will be making $6.0 million dollars next year, but yes I agree with you, he holds no value.

As of right now his '06 salary will be 4.75M. You won't know how much more than that it will be until the '06 season is completed. It could stay at 4.75M, or get as high as 6.75M, all depending on IP.

[WISOX]

I love manny, I'd love for him to be our DH

 

But, could Ozzie get him to bathe?

[sox-r-us]

Do not forget one thing. ARod was traded for basically Soriano. Before that happened, I remember so many people saying what it would take to land a ARod

 

And ARod is a far far far better player than Manny.

[Chisoxfn]

Reports out of Bean-town is that Manny wants out again...Surprised....Unconfirmed teams are; Cleveland, LA Angles, and The Chicago White Sox. Kenny Williams is a smart man, we know that. He will be wise and not trade for this cancer,not hearted, idiot from Boston.  ONCE AGAIN NOT CONFIRMED...READ IT ONLINE, DON"T KNOW HOW MUCH TRUTH IS THERE

I'd make the deal in a heartbeat...a heartbeat. At most you have to give up one good prospect. I'd give up someone not named Chris Young, McCarthy or Brian Anderson as well as El Duque and than get Manny and cash in return.

 

At this point it appears all Boston wants to do is make a change and Manny would look absolutely awesome in the middle of this order. The guy may have a few issues, but he flat out produces and can play DH (I don't know if he has anything against being a DH) for the Sox while ocassionally playing left field (just to give Pods a rest).

 

If the Sox miss out on Konerko, than I'd be all for acquiring Manny and than trying to find a left handed bat at 1st (at a lesser price) and getting Manny to be the middle of the order presence.

[Chisoxfn]

You are probably right though, Garland would most likely have to be involved.

 

It's a little odd to consider, but how much is Manny overpayed? Everyone here keeps referencing that he's overpayed.  Well okay, he's making 20 million dollars, he's a superior player to Konerko who people are throwing 15+ at.  I would say he's making only 3-5 million more than he's worth.  What do you think?

Ya right. Sox aren't going to give up any of their main chips for a shot at Manny. All the talk out here is that Anaheim would have to part with one of their prospects and eat 80% of the contract and they could have Manny.

 

The Mets want Manny bad but it doesn't seem like Boston wants to pay part of Manny's contract and take on Cameron's contract as well.

[Chisoxfn]

Dye is a better outfielder than Ramirez, but if Ramirez replacing Dye makes the outfield the worst in baseball, than last years outfield defensively was one of the worst five in baseball anyways.

Podsednik would be the worse right fielder in baseball and Manny is one of the worse left fielders in baseball. You'd have Rowand and two terrible outfielders. They would be one of the worse outfields out there. No doubt about it.

 

Manny would only be a DH with the Sox. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Chisoxfn]

exactly, and it is almost inevitable that that is what they will do.  good post.

Mark my words...Boston will not get much for Manny. Most inside of baseball know Boston wants him gone and they are going to move him this off-season. 90% sure of that and Boston wants to move his entire contract (without eating much of it) and with that being the case they best thing they can hope for is 1 good prospect and a couple filler type prospects.

 

Thats at least whats being talked about and rumored out here (Angels are pretty interested).

[Chisoxfn]

This is why Kenny and Reinsdorf are in a hole.  The average fan doesn't care about stats, they care about their fan favorites.

Trust me...average fan and anyone for that matter has to know that Manny >>> Paulie. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. You can't even compare the two. Manny is quite possibly the greatest run producer to ever play the game (he's an RBI machine).

[Chisoxfn]

Which is why you offer the package I quoted earlier in the thread.

 

Rowand, Marte, Duque. --

 

Rowand can easily be replaced, both offensively and defensively, by Brian Anderson.

Marte is as good as gone anyway, why not use him to get Manny?. Cotts proved we don't need him.

Duque is a league average pitcher, who can throw from the pen(where boston needs help) or the backend of the rotation.

 

Those are three players who essentially are easily replacable from the White Sox perspective. You're not losing anything. Except Salary. Oh, and it's a nice chunk of change too. Rowand $3.25, Marte 2.25, and Duque 4.5+. -- $10M is a lot.

 

If Boston doesn't want to got for it. Fine, but those three are the first 3 players to go from the current team. They are the most easily replaceable. Use them to fill your weakness (LHed bat, DH, and 1b?) through some other team.

And Boston would make that deal. They'd love to have Rowand roaming in CF and he's the blue collar type player that Red Sox fans would love (they love Nixon and he's a similar type player in terms of grittiness). Mix that with Marte being able to help there pen and Duque can give them some leadership and be there 5th starter.

 

The Red Sox aren't going to get a Chris Young type prospect unless they shell out quite a bit of cash. The Sox lose those 3 guys, get Manny and like you point out finacially we aren't adding all that much. Plus the club has opened up spots for two of its top young players (Brian Anderson and Brandon McCarthy) and they still have the financial resources to resign Konerko or opt to find a left handed 1st baseman to replace him.

 

Than you go and add another reliever and maybe sign a swingman/4th outfielder (who can pitch in if something happens with Anderson).

[Chisoxfn]

If the Sox replaced Konerko with a viable replacement -- such as Manny -- the fanbase, IMO, wouldn't be in arms. 

 

If we're going to be built around pitching and defense, why not market it?  It seems pretty simple to market one of the majors best pitching prospects entering next year's rotation, under the wings of guys like Buehrle and Garland, along with diversity of guys like Pierzynski, Iguchi, and Uribe.

 

Then again, the marketing department is what I'm worried least about.

Winning Markets itself, imo.

[The Critic]

You are correct, however Konerko's daddy did come out and say that Konerk wasn't going to give the White Sox a discount.   

That's true, and I've never heard a word from "DadRam".

That's a good reason to choose one player over another, let's go get him!