Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 In terms of Hermanson and El Duque... Both of these players have struggled with injuries this year. However, every year once the season begins, there turns out to be several major teams in dire need of bullpen help (Think the Yankees and Red Sox this year). If you were considering trading either Hermanson or El Duque...if they can come out and have a solid April next year, their trade value would be exponentially higher than it is right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 03:11 PM) In terms of Hermanson and El Duque... Both of these players have struggled with injuries this year. However, every year once the season begins, there turns out to be several major teams in dire need of bullpen help (Think the Yankees and Red Sox this year). If you were considering trading either Hermanson or El Duque...if they can come out and have a solid April next year, their trade value would be exponentially higher than it is right now. Balta, why can't I save that picture in your sig? It just won't open after I save it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 06:50 PM) I think Garland gets at least 7 million, I guess 8 might be a little high. I was a little pie in the sky with some of the other numbers, trying to shoot at the high end of the range. When it comes down to it, isn't Garland a 60 game winner already? I mean, that's almost as many games as Kerry Wood has won Garland has 159 Career starts with 64 wins. Wood has 174 Career starts with 70 wins. I still don't believe Garland gets $8 mil in arbitration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 01:22 PM) Garland has 159 Career starts with 64 wins. Wood has 174 Career starts with 70 wins. I still don't believe Garland gets $8 mil in arbitration. No, but he may very well get that if we do the smart thing and sign him a 3 year deal instead of risking arbitration and losing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 (edited) Okay, let's seriously analyze some of the teams that we think are going to be making serious offers here... Angels- As someone already said, they have a lot of money committed to very few plays, like Vlad, Colon, Cabrera, and Finley. Konerko is a guy that they could use, but there are some problems. First off, something will have to be done with their rotation if they are going to be serious contenders. Colon, Lackey, and Santana should be in there, but that leaves 2 spots open, and at least one of them has to be a legit middle of the rotation starter, probably both. Escobar could be moved back into the rotation, but it's questionable as to whether or not they do it. That looks like the best move to me, but then their pen has a little less depth and they might need to acquire a lefty. They'll still need someone else either way, because Santana can't be your 4th starter at this point in his career. They could also probably use another OF, unless they really think that Finley would still work in CF. Another issue is Kendry Morales will probably get a good shot at the 1B/DH job, meaning there'll be more players they could use at that spot. They'd then have Morales, Erstad (I guess he could go back to the outfield, but IIRC they were worried about him getting hurt), and Kotchman all fighting for 2 spots, plus potentially adding Konerko. All in all, I just don't see how they could offer Konerko a 5/70 type deal. Red Sox- Their payroll is already pretty high, with about $75 mil due to 7 players, and about another $15-$20 mil already committed. They've got way too many other holes to worry about trying to add a major 1B. First, they have to either sign or replace Damon. Second, their bullpen needs some serious help, like the costly Wagner or Ryan. Plus they'll still have to worry about 3B, 2B, and possibly one of their OF spots. 3rd, they may also need to add a starting pitcher, with Wade Miller a major question mark, Wells' health possibly going down the tubes, and Arroyo just plain sucking. I don't see how they can afford to sign Paulie to a huge deal with their monstrous committments to guys like Manny, Schilling, Varitek, Renteria, and Clement. Granted they could try to deal Manny to free up some money, but that would probably hurt the team more than it helps, and it would take a considerable amount of time to work out a deal. Spending $14 mil on a 1B seems to be a luxury they can't really afford, although I guess you never know what they'll do. I doubt they beat us by that much though. Yankees- George is unpredictable, but I can't see it. Obviously the payroll is already massive. They lose some contracts, but they'll need to resign Matsui, find a CF, and upgrade the bullpen. Plus you know they always love to acquire starting pitchers (can they really depend on Small and Wang?). If the Boss decided that he couldn't afford Beltran last year, I doubt he can afford Paulie this year. Orioles- They probably have the money to make an offer, but they have other issues to deal with that will be costly. They need to either resign or replace B.J. Ryan and they desperately need some starting pitching. I think they probably make an offer, but not a ridiculous one. They probably also lose points because their chances of contending are somewhat low. Blue Jays- This is another team that could make an offer, but again I doubt it's a huge one. Their payroll is supposedly going up a lot, but They're going to be serious players for A.J. Burnett, which would put a major damper on their chances of getting Paulie. They also are going to be searching for a closer, which won't come cheap. Again, this is a team Paulie might avoid because it will be difficult for them to contend. Dodgers- I can't see them making a significant offer. They have a lot of money committed to a lot of less than stellar players. I don't see how they could afford to do it. They also have issues with being competitive, although their division is bad enough that it would be possible. Sox- Just won the series, so there is some added revenue. Season ticket base and single game ticket sales also probably increase. Already have every other key player signed, and have few glaring weaknesses to resolve (except DH). We are probably more likely to overpay for Paulie than any other team because he is one of our own and is one of the team leaders. Plus, we have very few committments past the 2006 season (Buehrle and Garcia will both be about $10 mil, Dye has a $6.5 mil option IIRC, everyone else affordable or FA), meaning we can afford to absorb a large deal. We also have several players who can be wildly effective for low prices, such as Jenks, McCarthy, Cotts, and the outfield trio of Anderson/Young/Owens. We should have a lot of financial flexibility. Plus, all indications are that he'd like to stay with the Sox. All in all, I think it adds up to 3 offers at $12 mil or above including us, tops. Edited October 31, 2005 by ZoomSlowik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 01:16 PM) Balta, why can't I save that picture in your sig? It just won't open after I save it. Beats the heck out of me, I just stole it off of a website and used them to host it. That might have something to do with it. Here's Yahoo Sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 02:26 PM) Angels- As someone already said, they have a lot of money committed to very few plays, like Vlad, Colon, Cabrera, and Finley. Konerko is a guy that they could use, but there are some problems. First off, something will have to be done with their rotation if they are going to be serious contenders. Colon, Lackey, and Santana should be in there, but that leaves 2 spots open, and at least one of them has to be a legit middle of the rotation starter, probably both. Escobar could be moved back into the rotation, but it's questionable as to whether or not they do it. That looks like the best move to me, but then their pen has a little less depth and they might need to acquire a lefty. They'll still need someone else either way, because Santana can't be your 4th starter at this point in his career. They could also probably use another OF, unless they really think that Finley would still work in CF. Another issue is Kendry Morales will probably get a good shot at the 1B/DH job, meaning there'll be more players they could use at that spot. They'd then have Morales, Erstad (I guess he could go back to the outfield, but IIRC they were worried about him getting hurt), and Kotchman all fighting for 2 spots, plus potentially adding Konerko. All in all, I just don't see how they could offer Konerko a 5/70 type deal. So you're tellin' me that Angels fans are asking, "YEAH, BUT WHERE WOULD WE PLAY HIM?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Wedge @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 03:34 PM) So you're tellin' me that Angels fans are asking, "YEAH, BUT WHERE WOULD WE PLAY HIM?" What I'm saying is the team has other options at the position which will be cheaper, allowing them to do other things. Morales is a guy they are very high on, they're stuck with Erstad, and Kotchman still has some potential. They might be better served trying to acquire a legit CF or 3B. That still doesn't change the fact that they have a ton of money committed and probably can't afford Paulie. They have over $65 mil committed to 8 players and two major holes in the rotation. Edited October 31, 2005 by ZoomSlowik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 QUOTE(Wedge @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 10:45 AM) I just don't think the Angels have the finances to make a significantly better offer to Konerko than the Sox do without moving some talent on that team. If they make such a move, then I'm not sure if they're upgrading or not. They have some serious starting rotation issues that need to be resolved, since they'll potentially lose Byrd and Washburn. This line is BS. They'll be fine for the rest of their lives whether Paul gets $12 million for 4 years or $15 million for 5 years. If Paul really cares about winning, he's going to probably end up back here. The Mets and Dodgers may be willing to overpay, but I don't think either of those teams would seriously contend for another season or two, despite some of the star power on those teams (especially the Mets). If he's not back here, then he's not really serious about being a part of the White Sox. If it comes down to Anaheim, Boston and the Sox the team that has the least history of winning is the Sox. Boston looks on there way to becoming a perennial playoff team, the Angels are a perennial playoff team, and than the Sox are in a tough division and while I think they are set to go a long way (with that pitching staff) they'll have the smallest payroll of any of the 3 despite playing in the largest market. We can't get bias here. Sure we all love Chicago and I think Paulie likes it here and knows the Sox have done a lot for him, but thats not to say him leaving now and going to Anaheim or Boston would be him just running for the money, both of those teams are capable of winning it all (out of the 3 I'd probalby choose Chicago or Anaheim simply because Boston's pitching staff is in shambles, that said, Boston will spend money and may just land AJ Burnett via FA and another starter via trade). If all 3 teams offer the exact same $ figure, I think it comes down to Chicago and Anaheim (Anaheim trains in Tempe, a little closer to his home and during the season Anaheim is a lot closer to his home, don't really know how much of an effect that has). Konerko isn't stupid and he's going to be in a great position and he can and will take advantage of this situation. Lord knows if we were in the same spot we'd do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 10:48 AM) I'm not really sure how high the trade value is on a 33 year old reliever with a horribly bad back and who's also comming off a career year. He's also signed to an affordable deal and I don't think the Sox should move him. Both him and Politte are very affordable and are going to be keys to the success of next years club. Plus we need to be prepared for growing pains with Jenks and its great to have those extra options. In the AL a strong bullpen is almost as important as a strong rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 12:24 PM) No, but he may very well get that if we do the smart thing and sign him a 3 year deal instead of risking arbitration and losing him. I agree with you. I've long been a propopent of a 3 or 4 year deal averaging near 8 million a season. Of course you do run the risk of this being a career year, but I think Garland will consistently put up similar numbers to what he did this past year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 01:19 PM) Everett won't be back and Thomas WILL be back on an incentive based 2 year deal. No reason thomas should be offered anything more than a one year juan gonzalez type deal this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 QUOTE(joeynach @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 01:42 PM) Garcia is going to make 9 mil this year not 10 and contreras is going to make 8 mil in 2006. You're right about Garcia but Contreras will make $6M this year after you factor in the $2M that the Yankees sent us in the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 01:45 PM) If all 3 teams offer the exact same $ figure, I think it comes down to Chicago and Anaheim (Anaheim trains in Tempe, a little closer to his home and during the season Anaheim is a lot closer to his home, don't really know how much of an effect that has). If we're assessing all the variables, we might as well also note that Konerko played for Scoscia while coming up through the Dodgers organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 03:01 PM) If we're assessing all the variables, we might as well also note that Konerko played for Scoscia while coming up through the Dodgers organization. Perhaps he might have developed a bad taste in his mouth for him due to the "questionable call arguments" during the CS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Sox Josh Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I think that Garland's contract should be escalating each year like this: 06: $4.5 Million 07: $8 Million 08: $10 Million 09: Club Option for $12 Million or 3 Million Buyout. That would total $25.5 Million for 3 years plus a club option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 And I believe Paulie has said that he dislikes moving around. He didn't like going from the Dodgers to the Reds and then from the Reds to the Sox. I may be too optimistic here, but this team seems to really like each other and seem to want to win together. Plus, when all is said and done, the least amount of movement is usually the way things end up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 04:32 PM) I think that Garland's contract should be escalating each year like this: 06: $4.5 Million 07: $8 Million 08: $10 Million 09: Club Option for $12 Million or 3 Million Buyout. That would total $25.5 Million for 3 years plus a club option. If they come at him with that, he will laugh in their faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Sox Josh Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 04:38 PM) If they come at him with that, he will laugh in their faces. why he will get his money. That is sort of how Buehrle's contract was structured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 12:36 PM) With the Angels though, it's worth noting that they really don't have a huge amount of cash to spend this offseason...they have somewhere over $73 million committed to their top 9 guys, and they're estimating needing around $16 million to pay the 14 guys they have in arbitration...thus bringing them to $89 million. Their salary this year was reportedly $97 million, and their GM says it will be "a little higher" next year. None of this includes either signing or replacing Paul Byrd and Bengie Molina. In other words, for them to even offer Konerko more than $12 million, it will mean that their salary will have to jump by about $5 million next year, and that's assuming they replace Byrd and Molina with people making the minimum. I don't know about Byrd, but I can tell you that they plan on using the other Molina as their starter. Many Angels fans have told me he's better defensively and probably just as good offensively. Plus they will be looking to trade Erstad and/pr Finley's contract. They're definately going to be making a run at PK. Hell, Manny makes 24 million or something like that and the Angels plan on making a strong run at him. Arte Moreno is the latin George Steinbrenner. He'll go after them. Oh yeah, they also have Salmon coming off the books too. Edited October 31, 2005 by nitetrain8601 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 02:48 PM) I don't know about Byrd, but I can tell you that they plan on using the other Molina as their starter. Many Angels fans have told me he's better defensively and probably just as good offensively. Plus they will be looking to trade Erstad and/pr Finley's contract. They're definately going to be making a run at PK. Hell, Manny makes 24 million or something like that and the Angels plan on making a strong run at him. Arte Moreno is the latin George Steinbrenner. He'll go after them. Oh yeah, they also have Salmon coming off the books too. Rofl, if an Angel fan told you that they are a total idiot. Jose Molina is pathetic. I'd rather have Widger over him to be honest. Molina is a poor hitter, isn't as good defensively as Bengie (still has a strong arm though) and would be an awful choice for the Angels. The Angels needs to resign Bengie, although they may not. If they don't, they better find a better stop gap than Jose (Jeff Mathis is not yet ready to take over). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 04:38 PM) If they come at him with that, he will laugh in their faces. Disagree. He will likely sign a three year 21 million dollar deal and on the high side three years 24 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 "Boston looks on there way to becoming a perennial playoff team" What? Perhaps because they are playing in what has turned into the easiest division in the league, but that is the only reason I can think for them being "a perenial playoff team." They have serious holes in their starting pitching, bullpen, and infield, Theo Epstein just resigned, Manny is threatening to go AWOL (that's just manny being manny), and they have an aging centerfielder who might leave town, and isn't a great option at the price if he does stay in town. Compared to teams like the Sox, Indians, Twins, Angels and A's, the Red Sox have a ton of questions. I mean, their GM just resigned and their (arguably) best player is demanding a trade out of town. Not exactly a great way to start the offseason coming off a sweep out of the playoffs in a year they barely made the playoffs in the last series of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 05:44 PM) why he will get his money. That is sort of how Buehrle's contract was structured. Buehrle signed his before his first year of arbitration. Garland is in his second season of arbitration. That makes a big difference. $7M will be the base salary for garland in '06. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Nov 1, 2005 -> 10:22 AM) Disagree. He will likely sign a three year 21 million dollar deal and on the high side three years 24 million. Which, considering the contract's last off-season for the Russ Ortiz's, the Eric Milton's, isn't too bad (unless he becomes the Jon of old again). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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