Sox exercise buyout on Thomas' contract

[Guest $I Need Money$]

Ah s*** please tell me this isn't the end of the big hurt in chicago. Man I know he got injured two years in a row but damn I can't imagine him wearing any other uniform other than the white sox uniform.

[beck72]

A guy that can't do anything else but be a pinch hitter, is not the type of guy you keep on the bench. It would be stupid to have a complete DH who can't help out in any way other than offensively (and even than thats assuming he's healthy enough to be out on the field every once in a while) sitting on the bench.  It makes zero sense to do that. 

 

Plus Frank isn't the type of guy who can sit on the bench for a week, come in for a pinch hit in a key situation and succeed.  He needs to get consistent ab's and he's not going to get them in Chicago (he better not).  It would be a ridiculous move to do anything other than invite him to camp and see what he could do. 

 

I would not even think about offering the big man a contract. The Sox need to get better at DH and nowhere does getting better mean having Frank Thomas as your starting DH or even as a platoon DH with someone else.  Find yourslef a legit player who can step in and play DH at times, at other times play in the field with other guys playing DH.  Use the DH as a way to give your guys a little bit of rest, while you still get to keep there bat in the lineup.

Well said. The biggest question mark about Frank is his health. The Sox can't afford to give up a big roster spot and a starting DH job to this big a health risk. They need to get a versatile player in that spot, prefrably a LH hitter who can get on base and hit for a high average. If the sox do that, then they could offer Frank an incentive laden contract

[beck72]

Just to let everyone know, there's less than a 5% chance of Giles leaving the west coast and less than a 1% chance of him ending up with the Sox. I wouldn't include him in any plans for this offseason.

Giles is overrated anyway. In this post steroid era, Giles' numbers are probably coming back down to earth

[beck72]

Alright, This would be my ideal plan. This is all based on Konerko going to LAA.

 

Sign Giles. Overpay if you have to. Its not like were going to sign him to a 6 year deal. Sign him at 3/34 if thats what it takes. We just won the WS. Were still in a good position to be a force. Lets do it now and worry about the future later.

 

Trade for Overbay. While Delgado would be the better choice, He makes a ton of money, and the Sox im sure dont want to go down that road, especially if they just gave 3/34 to Giles. Give the Brew Crew El Duque, Marte, and a mid level prospect and see what happens. It will probably take more than that, but I think you can land him and still keep this team totally intact.

 

Sign Eyre/Mike Myers as your other LHRP. Easy deal.

 

Giles and Dye platoon DH and RF, with Overbay at 1b.

Besides adding Giles [which wouldn't be needed if PK re-signs, IMO, a very good chance he will], I'd like these moves. Overbay would give the sox very good flexibility and what the sox need from a LH bat--OBP, avg, some power, and a lot of doubles].

Marte and El Duque [the yanks would take him in an instant] should be gone.

 

The key would be if PK goes elsehwere. Then the sox would have to get creative [make a big trade] in order to replace PK's bat

Edited November 5, 2005 by beck72

[GoodAsGould]

My ideal off-season would be to wave goodbye to Konerko since he will cost 2 much money.

 

Sign Giles 3 years 10 million a year... I know its a lot of money for a player his age but its worth it he doesnt put up huge HR numbers but he is still very very good.

 

Trade Rowand/Marte in a package for Overbay and whatevr.... I dont care if they throw in a prospect or something just the idea is to lose those 2 players and get Overbay.

 

Trade Dye for some prospects or bullpen help or whatevr. He had a nice season for us won WS MVP but he did stink for the first whole half of the season hence the nicnname Dead.

 

Resign Frank for a year and a team option for a 2nd year worth 5 million or so.

 

 

Batting Order:

 

Podsenick

Iguchi

Giles

Thomas

Overbay

Pierznski

Crede

Uribe

Anderson

 

and the rest is the same just replace Marte with Munoz or something.

[YASNY]

You are the only one who has asked me.  Not "people".  Secondly, I know this because I follow this team, and I know that Gload is hated by the org, expecially KW and Ozzie.  Its the same reason why they didnt bring him up to play this year, and gave him no chances.  They flat out dont like him, anyone who follows this team is privy to this information.  Take this post, copy it, learn it.

 

Wow. I think you are making a hell of an assumption here. I believe Gload was a "piece that didn't fit into the puzzle" as far as the Sox ML roster goes. Offensively, they could have used him. But defensively, he didn't fit. We didn't need a full time backup for Paulie and Gload is not what you'd consider for a late-inning defensive replacement in the outfield.

 

Put yourself in Gload's place. He put very respectable numbers in 2004 with the Sox. He then believes he'll be with the team in '05, in part because Ozzie said that he was a part of the team. He gets injured, heals, then goes down to AAA and tears it up down there. Yet, things were going so well in Chicago that they never made the move to call him up. Wouldn't you get frustrated enough to say something if some "journalist" caught you in a bad moment and yanked your chain?

 

Whether or not Gload ever plays for the Sox again is unknown at this point, but to say the organization hates the man is beyond ludicrous in my opinion.

[Kalapse]

Giles is overrated anyway. In this post steroid era, Giles' numbers are probably coming back down to earth

If a 148 OPS+ from last year is comming down to earth, I wish more players would do the same.

 

It's funny how Brian Giles' power numbers dropped midseason in '03 when he was traded to San Diego. You get Brian Giles out of Petco and he goes back to his 30+ HR self.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Wow.  I think you are making a hell of an assumption here.  I believe Gload was a "piece that didn't fit into the puzzle" as far as the Sox ML roster goes.  Offensively, they could have used him.  But defensively, he didn't fit.  We didn't need a full time backup for Paulie and Gload is not what you'd consider for a late-inning defensive replacement in the outfield. 

 

Put yourself in Gload's place.  He put very respectable numbers in 2004 with the Sox.  He then believes he'll be with the team in '05, in part because Ozzie said that he was a part of the team.  He gets injured, heals, then goes down to AAA and tears it up down there.  Yet, things were going so well in Chicago that they never made the move to call him up.  Wouldn't you get frustrated enough to say something if some "journalist" caught you in a bad moment and yanked your chain? 

 

Whether or not Gload ever plays for the Sox again is unknown at this point, but to say the organization hates the man is beyond ludicrous in my opinion.

 

I agree with you with Gload's situation as a whole and especially the part in bold. When Gload broke camp with the team in 04 Ozzie loved him. That injury derailed him and with our defensive situation Gload wasn't able to fill that spot.

 

Ozzie isn't scared of putting Gload in the OF, he reinjured his shoulder which prevented him from playing in the outfield. A good reason why he wasn't called up earlier.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

If a 148 OPS+ from last year is comming down to earth, I wish more players would do the same.

 

It's funny how Brian Giles' power numbers dropped midseason in '03 when he was traded to San Diego. You get Brian Giles out of Petco and he goes back to his 30+ HR self.

 

I bet Giles ends up in the midwest. He will not stay on the coast. He will be a Cub or Cardinal in my opinion

[wsox08]

I definitely see Giles in a cardinals uniform by spring training.

[elrockinMT]

I just want to see the Big Hurt back next year. We all, including Frank Thomas and his agent, expected the buyout. Businesswise it makes sense. However, if the medical reports stay good and Frank's ankle and foot are healed, the Hurt will be back with an incentive laden contract. I only hope the team signs both Frank and Paulie otherwise next year we will be losing games 1-0 instead of winning them 1-0.

[greg775]

My ideal off-season would be to wave goodbye to Konerko since he will cost 2 much money.

 

Says who? It ain't our money. It's the owners.

Why would it be ideal to wave goodbye to a hero and pay Giles of all people 10 mill a year?

Screw Giles; he did not give us a World Series.

Give Paul 14 million; it's just monopoly money anyway after what that magazine said the franchise is worth.

GO SOX! KEEP PAULIE, KEEP FRANK

[3E8]

Screw Giles; he did not give us a World Series.

If anyone gave us a World Series, it was Kenny Williams. He was the one with the foresight to put together the collection of different players that made us what we were. He will decide what pieces we need in '06 to defend our title, whether that includes Konerko or not.

Edited November 6, 2005 by 3E8

[DBAHO]

If a 148 OPS+ from last year is comming down to earth, I wish more players would do the same.

 

It's funny how Brian Giles' power numbers dropped midseason in '03 when he was traded to San Diego. You get Brian Giles out of Petco and he goes back to his 30+ HR self.

Put simply, PETCO is the worst ballpark for LH hitters. Giles' has shown anyway, you don't need to hit 30+ homers to put up a +.900 OPS. Imagine the numbers next season if he gets out of there.

[beck72]

If a 148 OPS+ from last year is comming down to earth, I wish more players would do the same.

 

It's funny how Brian Giles' power numbers dropped midseason in '03 when he was traded to San Diego. You get Brian Giles out of Petco and he goes back to his 30+ HR self.

Interesting that Giles home and away splits for HR's are pretty even. From 2002-2004, [the first two years in Pitt], Giles hit 28 Hr's in 800 ab's at home, while hitting 30 hr's in 846 ab's on the road.

This last yr, he hit 6 hr's in 266 ab's at home. and 9 hr's in 279 ab's on the road.

If Petco was the sole reason for his drop off, you'd expect a larger discrepancy.

 

Personally, I go by both a dropoff in numbers and a grown man reverting back to his previous life form as a possible past steroid user. Nothing about his stats make me think any different

[DBAHO]

Interesting that Giles home and away splits for HR's are pretty even. From 2002-2004, [the first two years in Pitt], Giles hit 28 Hr's in 800 ab's at home, while hitting 30 hr's in 846 ab's on the road.

This last yr, he hit 6 hr's in 266 ab's at home. and 9 hr's in 279 ab's on the road.

If Petco was the sole reason for his drop off, you'd expect a larger discrepancy.

 

Personally, I go by both a dropoff in numbers and a grown man reverting back to his previous life form as a possible past steroid user. Nothing about his stats make me think any different

But Giles also had a .333/.463/.545 line in those away game, with a 70/24 BB/K ratio, and 26 doubles. Compare that to say Paulie who had 8 more HR's in away games, but 12 less doubles and a much worse K/BB ratio.

 

Giles doesn't have to hit for massive amounts of power to be successful.

[3E8]

Interesting that Giles home and away splits for HR's are pretty even. From 2002-2004, [the first two years in Pitt], Giles hit 28 Hr's in 800 ab's at home, while hitting 30 hr's in 846 ab's on the road.

This last yr, he hit 6 hr's in 266 ab's at home. and 9 hr's in 279 ab's on the road.

If Petco was the sole reason for his drop off, you'd expect a larger discrepancy.

I think you are looking at it the wrong way.

 

~Road

 

30 HR / 846 AB = 0.035 HR/AB

9 HR / 279 AB = 0.032 HR/AB

 

Those rates stayed relatively the same. About an 8% decrease.

 

~Home

 

28 HR / 800 AB = 0.035 HR/AB

6 HR / 266 AB = 0.023 HR/AB

 

Now a 34% decrease. These results suggest Petco is the largest reason for any drop in home run rate.

Edited November 6, 2005 by 3E8

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Interesting that Giles home and away splits for HR's are pretty even. From 2002-2004, [the first two years in Pitt], Giles hit 28 Hr's in 800 ab's at home, while hitting 30 hr's in 846 ab's on the road.

This last yr, he hit 6 hr's in 266 ab's at home. and 9 hr's in 279 ab's on the road.

If Petco was the sole reason for his drop off, you'd expect a larger discrepancy.

 

Personally, I go by both a dropoff in numbers and a grown man reverting back to his previous life form as a possible past steroid user. Nothing about his stats make me think any different

 

you also have no facts which makes you irresponsible. That means you have no credibility (ouch, using a Mariotti line)

[Kalapse]

Also when you play half your games in a stadium that is nearly impossible for you to hit a HR in, you tend to change your approach at the plate. If it's hard for him to hit HRs at home, he may change his approach and try to hit more 2Bs and walk more, this approach would also carry over to road games.

 

Just a thought.

[SSH2005]

Also when you play half your games in a stadium that is nearly impossible for you to hit a HR in, you tend to change your approach at the plate. If it's hard for him to hit HRs at home, he may change his approach and try to hit more 2Bs and walk more, this approach would also carry over to road games.

 

Just a thought.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great thought. I agree with you. When you know that many hard hit flyballs will just be cans of corn for outfielders playing deep, you may try to hit more low linedrive doubles. Excellent analysis.

 

I do think that Giles would easily change his approach and hit 35 - 40 homers at the Cell though.

Edited November 6, 2005 by SSH2005

[Frank the Tank 35]

I think you are looking at it the wrong way.

 

~Road

 

30 HR / 846 AB = 0.035 HR/AB

9 HR / 279 AB = 0.032 HR/AB

 

Those rates stayed relatively the same.  About an 8% decrease.

 

~Home

 

28 HR / 800 AB = 0.035 HR/AB

6 HR / 266 AB = 0.023 HR/AB

 

Now a 34% decrease.  These results suggest Petco is the largest reason for any drop in home run rate.

 

So he would have had a whopping 18 hrs last year if he didn't play at Petco? In any event, I don't know why we'd be basing this argument on numbers from 2002-2004. If you want to compare pre-Petco to Petco, you shouldn't include all those numbers together. So...

Petco numbers (2003-2005):

1258 ABs (545 last year) with 42 hrs (15) which equates to a hr every 29.95 ABs (36.33)

 

Pre-Petco numbers (Pitt only 1999-2003):

2541 ABs (388 in 2003) with 165 hrs (16) which equates to a hr every 15.4 ABs(24.25)

 

Home/Away splits:

2001: 18/19

2002: 15/23

2003: 12/8 (Pitt only, SD was only 4 anyway)

2004: 10/13

2005: 6/9

career: 120/126

 

You also might want to look at his Coors Field numbers... 3 homers and 15 rbi... to even out the home/away score last year. I didn't feel like going on a treasure hunt to find pre-2001 split stats, but it's pretty obvious that the discrepancy between home and away is not a great one (50/50ish before the Pads). And if anything, his proclivity to be a better hr hitter away started before he was with the Pads. So given those facts, I'd be more concerned with this line of production: 37, 38, 20, 23, 15... as in hr totals the past 5 years. And I don't want to hear any bologna about oh he was traded half way through 2003 so that's why his numbers were down. He hit MORE hr's the following year with a FULL year in SD! AND he had 388 ABs in 105 games compared to 104 ABs in 29 games for SD. His power slide STARTED in Pitt the year he was traded IMO. I'd be willing to wager that anywhere he plays next year, he will definitely not eclipse 25 hrs (unless it's the Rockies, but c'mon he's not playing there). Look at his HR/AB # from his Pitt 2003 year (24.25) and compare it to his SD # (29.95). I think that's a much more realistic way of looking at his possible hr numbers outside of Petco, a hr every 25 ABs at best assuming he hasn't lost any power the past couple years (which I highly doubt).

[Punch and Judy Garland]

where do we play our home games Frank? Jermaine friggin Dye socked 31 here. Look at AJ's year compared to his career HR totals. He would hit 30 plus here with ease (plus get on base at a 425 clip)

[SSH2005]

where do we play our home games Frank? Jermaine friggin Dye socked 31 here. Look at AJ's year compared to his career HR totals. He would hit 30 plus here with ease (plus get on base at a 425 clip)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dye hit 15 homers at the Cell and 16 on the road. He has always had good power, regardless of the ballpark he plays at.

[3E8]

 

Just for fun, I layed U.S. Cellular's dimensions on top of Petco's dimensions with Giles 2B's, 3B's, and flyouts charted on top. I marked balls that would be a home run in the Cell with a yellow circle. I put 2 circles by the upper right-hand power alley because there are two flyouts superimposed on each other.

 

It's kinda hard to see, but the Cell's wall is the dotted line.

 

Looks like Giles would have had 16 more home runs (but about 10 less doubles and triples) if Petco had U.S. Cellular dimensions.

Edited November 6, 2005 by 3E8

[Frank the Tank 35]

But look at AJ's BA... waaay down. He fell in love with the hr just like almost every other Sox player. Yes JD hit 8 more homers than he did the year before. How many hrs did he hit in his healthy years? 27, 33, 26, 24 (abbreviated season), and 23 (last year coming back from injury). He is only 31 years old, hardly on the decline. Actually, he should be right in his prime. So for the sake of argument let's average out those healthy years (even though it's definitely arguable that he could have hit several more). That comes to 26.6 hr per year. So he hit 4.4 more homers due to the US Cell factor. Big deal. Brian Giles 9 away hrs last year X 2= 18 + 4.4= 22.4. I'll even give you a few extra to make it to 25.