Soxplosion Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Two wins and seven losses, unless our offense saves your sorry behind. This is sad. This guy has completely forgotten how to pitch. Hes turning into Todd Ritchie. Last year Ritchie got crushed by the Tigers after doing well for sometime without any run support. From that point on, Ritchie hardly ever won a game. Im not saying Buerhle will be that bad. In fact I think he can probably turn it around. But neither has gotten any run support. During his last five outtings, all losses credited to him, the Sox have scored eight runs. Thats pathetic. Ritchie and Buehrle both have done well at first but they never got any run support. Ritchie finally blew up against Detroit last year (didnt help that he got hit in the head...) and it seems Buehrles equivalent this year would be this game. The question is, how will he react? Ritchie continued to stink. If Buehrles the pitcher we all think and hope he is, hell recover and get that pathetic 4.96 ERA down. If we have somehow been fooled these last two years, hell go down Ritchies road and slowly and sadly implode while he counts the days before he can go to St Louis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Hey I'd say a 20-2 loss feels better than blowing a 2-0 lead in the bottom 9th. Wouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 17, 2003 Author Share Posted May 17, 2003 Hey I'd say a 20-2 loss feels better than blowing a 2-0 lead in the bottom 9th. Wouldn't you? Yeah. I hate when were close but we blow it. Getting blown away doesnt feel good but its not as bad as imploding at the end... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Buehrle's second bad outing of the year and everybody's ready to get rid of him. And you all call me pessimistic His ERA before today's game was in the 3's. How many pitchers in MLB have a 2-6 record with ERA's in the 3's? Not many. The offense hasn't scored any runs when MB pitches. In his last 3 or 4 outings before today the offense has scored 4 OR 5 runs for MB!!!!! TOTAL!!!!! His record very easily could have been 6-2 before today. And Roman..... comparing MB to Ritchie? Shows how much about baseball you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Buehrle's second bad outing of the year and everybody's ready to get rid of him. And you all call me pessimistic His ERA before today's game was in the 3's. How many pitchers in MLB have a 2-6 record with ERA's in the 3's? Not many. The offense hasn't scored any runs when MB pitches. In his last 3 or 4 outings before today the offense has scored 4 OR 5 runs for MB!!!!! TOTAL!!!!! His record very easily could have been 6-2 before today. And Roman..... comparing MB to Ritchie? Shows how much about baseball you know. 2-7 and NOT in the 3's anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Let's not kid ourselves about Mark this season. Yes the Sox have not supported him well. No they have not played good defense behind him. And yes I acknowledge that in those circumstances, one pitches differently. I am a Mark Buehrle fan and yes, he does deserve better than 2-7. But I don't think it is fair to say that he should be 7-2 either. He just hasn't pitched that well. The evidence..... 23 BB in 61.2 IP. Only 25 K (1 in every 2.68 innings) 73 Hits allowed in 61.2 IP 8 HR allowed 3 HBP Each of these ratios are up from 2002. He walked 1 batter for every 3.85 innings in 2002. Gave up less hits than innings pitched last year. Only hit 3 batters all year. He did allow a ton of home runs last year though (24). Yes, his record would be better if he had better support, but an ace has to step up and perform with his teams needs it. It would be nice to get 10 runs/game like David Wells gets, but that is not reality for most pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Let's not kid ourselves about Mark this season. Yes the Sox have not supported him well. No they have not played good defense behind him. And yes I acknowledge that in those circumstances, one pitches differently. I am a Mark Buehrle fan and yes, he does deserve better than 2-7. But I don't think it is fair to say that he should be 7-2 either. He just hasn't pitched that well. The evidence..... 23 BB in 61.2 IP. Only 25 K (1 in every 2.68 innings) 73 Hits allowed in 61.2 IP 8 HR allowed 3 HBP Each of these ratios are up from 2002. He walked 1 batter for every 3.85 innings in 2002. Gave up less hits than innings pitched last year. Only hit 3 batters all year. He did allow a ton of home runs last year though (24). Yes, his record would be better if he had better support, but an ace has to step up and perform with his teams needs it. It would be nice to get 10 runs/game like David Wells gets, but that is not reality for most pitchers. Rex the man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Buehrle's second bad outing of the year and everybody's ready to get rid of him. And you all call me pessimistic His ERA before today's game was in the 3's. How many pitchers in MLB have a 2-6 record with ERA's in the 3's? Not many. The offense hasn't scored any runs when MB pitches. In his last 3 or 4 outings before today the offense has scored 4 OR 5 runs for MB!!!!! TOTAL!!!!! His record very easily could have been 6-2 before today. And Roman..... comparing MB to Ritchie? Shows how much about baseball you know. But even before today, he was allowing nearly 1.5 baserunners per inning. So while he could easily have been 6-2 with his high 3 ERA, he could VERY easily have been 2-6 with an ERA of 5.00 or worse. All of those baserunners are going to catch up to him sooner or later, and perhaps tonight was the start of it (I didn't see the game, but his line is about as ugly as they come). Except for Garland, he's been our worse pitcher, oddly enough. Run support or not, he needs to get us wins, and it better begin very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Let's not kid ourselves about Mark this season. Yes the Sox have not supported him well. No they have not played good defense behind him. And yes I acknowledge that in those circumstances, one pitches differently. I am a Mark Buehrle fan and yes, he does deserve better than 2-7. But I don't think it is fair to say that he should be 7-2 either. He just hasn't pitched that well. The evidence..... 23 BB in 61.2 IP. Only 25 K (1 in every 2.68 innings) 73 Hits allowed in 61.2 IP 8 HR allowed 3 HBP Each of these ratios are up from 2002. He walked 1 batter for every 3.85 innings in 2002. Gave up less hits than innings pitched last year. Only hit 3 batters all year. He did allow a ton of home runs last year though (24). Yes, his record would be better if he had better support, but an ace has to step up and perform with his teams needs it. It would be nice to get 10 runs/game like David Wells gets, but that is not reality for most pitchers. Rex the man! Heh...where's my "Jer the man!"? I pointed that out last week. His WHIP has gone from 1.06 in 2001 to 1.25 in 2002, and now this season it's well over 1.5 after tonight's debacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 MB really is a soft tosser that does not K alot of batters, LH hitters are killing him this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 MB really is a soft tosser that does not K alot of batters, LH hitters are killing him this year. 2001 = 5.12 K/9 IP 2002 = 5.11 K/9 IP 2003 = 3.65 K/9 IP (including tonight) 2001 = 1.95 BB/9 IP 2002 = 2.30 BB/9 IP 2003 = 3.36 BB/9 IP (including tonight) 2001 = .230 opp BA 2002 = .260 opp BA 2003 = .280 opp BA (not counting tonight's shelling) 2001 = .377 opp SLG 2002 = .405 opp SLG 2003 = .462 opp SLG (not counting tonight's ass kicking) Those numbers are NOT good. Something could -- I stress, COULD -- be injured on MB. Herb and Coop better look into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Buehrle's stats right now remind me a lot of Tom Glavine. Here's what I'm looking at. In Glavine's first two years....he had some good success. He allowed more homers in his second year then his first....but allowed about 100 walks in about 380 innings. However, in 1990, Glavine walked 78 in 214 innings. He allowed 18 homers, two fewer than he did in 89. Overall....he regressed in 1990 when comparing him to his 88 & 89 forms. In 1991, Glavine went 20-11 with a 2.55 ERA in 240 innings. His walk count didn't really decrease, but his strikeout rate increased tremendously. He had about 125 in 90, and had about 190 in 91. If this thing plays out like it did for Glavine....his great success and leap into superstardom will come next year, and not this year. We need him to turn it around a little though. He's pitched like absolute s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 2001 = 5.12 K/9 IP 2002 = 5.11 K/9 IP 2003 = 3.65 K/9 IP (including tonight) 2001 = 1.95 BB/9 IP 2002 = 2.30 BB/9 IP 2003 = 3.36 BB/9 IP (including tonight) 2001 = .230 opp BA 2002 = .260 opp BA 2003 = .280 opp BA (not counting tonight's shelling) 2001 = .377 opp SLG 2002 = .405 opp SLG 2003 = .462 opp SLG (not counting tonight's ass kicking) Those numbers are NOT good. Something could -- I stress, COULD -- be injured on MB. Herb and Coop better look into it. AL is catching up with MB soft s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Over his current losing streak, Mark's ERA is over 7. Run support is not an issue under those circumstances. Mark is struggling, but we all know what kind of pitcher he is capable of being. You don't throw away two good years for two bad months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Over his current losing streak, Mark's ERA is over 7. Run support is not an issue under those circumstances. Mark is struggling, but we all know what kind of pitcher he is capable of being. You don't throw away two good years for two bad months. Agreed. I still believe in him. But it is time for Sox fans to realize it isn't JUST a lack of run support and bad defense. Granted those never help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 17, 2003 Author Share Posted May 17, 2003 Im not totally against MB yet. But his performance this year has some scary similarities to Todd Ritchies performance last year. They both started off pretty well. But they got no run support. Ritchie finally exploded and now Buehrle has done that too. But the storys not over yet. We have yet to see how Mark reacts. Ritchie blew up and stunk for the rest of the year. But maybe Mark will recover and win 15 games for us (20 is not likely) or he will implode and follow Todd Ritchie. Well have to see how he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 You know Roman, sometimes a guy just has a bad year. It happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 You know Roman, sometimes a guy just has a bad year. It happens. This is beginning of MB's longterm demise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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