Bears impending QB "controversy"?

[Heads22]

from what i have seen from him.

 

Orton is a mediocre/adequate QB. He is a long ways from great, and I don't see him getting there either.

[White Sox Josh]

Orton is a mediocre/adequate QB. He is a long ways from great, and I don't see him getting there either.

did you see the TD Pass to Moose against Detroit. That looked like it was thrown by Dan Marino in his prime. Bet you Grossman couldn't of placed that ball where Orton did.

[Heads22]

did you see the TD Pass to Moose against Detroit.  That looked like it was thrown by Dan Marino in his prime.  Bet you Grossman couldn't of placed that ball where Orton did.

 

Bet you he could have.

 

If you are going to base a quarterback's potential on one pass play, I've got Sage Rosenfels and Seneca Wallace waiting for you.

[Kyyle23]

Bet you he could have.

 

If you are going to base a quarterback's potential on one pass play, I've got Sage Rosenfels and Seneca Wallace waiting for you.

 

I think that the expectations for both quarterbacks are pretty silly and off base. We have two rookie quarterbacks basically, and both of them are unknown quantities in the NFL. We havent seen enough from Grossman to say that he should be the definitive starter, and Orton has taken his rookie lumps, and still has a 5-3 record. Its strange that so many people in Chicago have written off Orton already, yet the Critics love him and say he gets better every week. Does anyone remember how bad Peyton Manning was in his first season? 28 interceptions vs 26 TDs, 3739 yards, 56.7 completion percentage, 6.5 YPA(not to mention 3-13). At this point Ortons numbers are extremely similar to Mannings rookie year. At this point Orton has 7 TDs vs 9 INTs, 1186 yards, 54.2 CMP%, and a 5.4 YPA,

 

Now dont misconstrue this, Orton is not going to be the next Peyton Manning. Im just trying to point out that rookie numbers should not be the death of Kyle Orton. He has done some really good things, and taken very big steps in his management of a game.

 

I really think that the Bears need to ride this one out with Orton. Not only is it big in the development of Orton, it is big in the development of the Bears as a team. Grossman isnt going to just be ready because his ankle healed. He is going to have to adjust to the speed of the NFL again, no matter what anyone says. And to throw him in the middle of a playoff race really will do Grossman a disservice, its not fair to expect him to jump off the bench and take over. Plus, if the Bears somehow collapsed, it is Grossmans fault, and we are all kicking ourselves for not letting Orton finish the job he started.

 

There are plenty of second guesses for us Bears fans right now, but I for one am hoping that those second guesses come next year in training camp.

 

Oh yes, before I forget

 

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Bearsssssssss

[White Sox Josh]

I think that the expectations for both quarterbacks are pretty silly and off base.  We have two rookie quarterbacks basically, and both of them are unknown quantities in the NFL.  We havent seen enough from Grossman to say that he should be the definitive starter, and Orton has taken his rookie lumps, and still has a 5-3 record.  Its strange that so many people in Chicago have written off Orton already, yet the Critics love him and say he gets better every week.  Does anyone remember how bad Peyton Manning was in his first season?  28 interceptions vs 26 TDs, 3739 yards,  56.7 completion percentage, 6.5 YPA(not to mention 3-13).  At this point Ortons numbers are extremely similar to Mannings rookie year.  At this point Orton has 7 TDs vs 9 INTs, 1186 yards, 54.2 CMP%, and a 5.4 YPA,

 

Now dont misconstrue this, Orton is not going to be the next Peyton Manning.  Im just trying to point out that rookie numbers should not be the death of Kyle Orton.  He has done some really good things, and taken very big steps in his management of a game. 

 

I really think that the Bears need to ride this one out with Orton.  Not only is it big in the development of Orton, it is big in the development of the Bears as a team.  Grossman isnt going to just be ready because his ankle healed.  He is going to have to adjust to the speed of the NFL again, no matter what anyone says.  And to throw him in the middle of a playoff race really will do Grossman a disservice, its not fair to expect him to jump off the bench and take over.  Plus, if the Bears somehow collapsed, it is Grossmans fault, and we are all kicking ourselves for not letting Orton finish the job he started. 

 

There are plenty of second guesses for us Bears fans right now, but I for one am hoping that those second guesses come next year in training camp. 

 

Oh yes, before I forget

 

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Bearsssssssss

thank you. That is what i have been trying to say. Very rarely will a rookie have a great season.

[Soxbadger]

Yeah but Grossman is capable of doing what Orton is doing, but also has the potential to do much more.

 

I have seen Grossman and Orton play, Grossman is the better quarterback in my opinion.

 

SB

[Kyyle23]

Yeah but Grossman is capable of doing what Orton is doing, but also has the potential to do much more.

 

I have seen Grossman and Orton play, Grossman is the better quarterback in my opinion.

 

SB

 

How do you know this? There is no stat out there that can prove this. Both of these QBs were Heisman hopefuls from bigtime programs, who developed under passing offenses.

 

I think as of right now, they have equal potential to do so much more. Grossman is going to have to wait in line now, because of an unfortunate turn of events, but he hasnt done anything so outstanding that would warrant benching Orton.

[hammerhead johnson]

You know, people keep saying that his game against Detroit in Week 8 was his best effort. Perhaps it appears that way on paper, but for those of us who actually watched that game, how many of those short passes to the sideline should have been picked off? I saw two dropped interceptions that should have been returned for easy touchdowns. If the Lions didn't have such a horrendous Back 7, we'd have gotten our asses handed to us in that game on the strength of unbelievably stupid decision-making and piss-poor talent out of the QB slot. But as it is now, every misguided Bears fan out there uses that game as a crutch.

 

And then you have those passes that are like a couple dozen feet off target. Do blatantly inaccurate passes qualify as rookie mistakes? I don't think so. There are certain things that you just can't teach, and Kyle ain't got much god-given talent to work with as far as I can tell.

[hammerhead johnson]

did you see the TD Pass to Moose against Detroit.  That looked like it was thrown by Dan Marino in his prime.  Bet you Grossman couldn't of placed that ball where Orton did.

 

Yep, and Cade McNown looked like Steve Young in his prime on that one run. Remember that one run?

 

Remember when Marcus Fizer scored 30? Just like Karl Malone in his prime?

[Kyyle23]

Yep, and Cade McNown looked like Steve Young in his prime on that one run.  Remember that one run? 

 

Remember when Marcus Fizer scored 30?  Just like Karl Malone in his prime?

 

Yeah, and Grossman looked just like Montana in those six games over three years. Remember those six games?

[hammerhead johnson]

Yeah, and Grossman looked just like Montana in those six games over three years.  Remember those six games?

 

Huh?

 

Given the context, your post makes absolutely no f***ing sense. I'm talking about one-play or one-game wonders in response to a hilarious Dan Marino comparison. What are you talking about?

Edited November 12, 2005 by hammerhead johnson

[GoodAsGould]

Yeah, and Grossman looked just like Montana in those six games over three years.  Remember those six games?

 

I do remember those 6 games... well really only 5 since he got hurt in the KC one at the begininng.... and Grossman in those 5 games has thrown over 200 yards 3-4 times..... Orton has done that once. Not 2 mention he misses easy wide open targets... missing open recievers isnt part of the rookie mistakes its just being inaccurate.

 

And Orton doesnt compare to Peyton. Peyton was on a much worse team overall... he threw for a helluva lot more yards and TD's.... and because of that he threw a lot of INT too but the Colts actually had an offense w/ him.

[hammerhead johnson]

I do remember those 6 games... well really only 5 since he got hurt in the KC one at the begininng.... and Grossman in those 5 games has thrown over 200 yards 3-4 times..... Orton has done that once.  Not 2 mention he misses easy wide open targets... missing open recievers isnt part of the rookie mistakes its just being inaccurate.

 

Why respond to a post that is so blatantly stupid?

 

Some of you guys...wow. I dont' even know why I bother sometimes.

[AirScott]

Disagree, looking at the schedules its coming down to the final game of the season.  I expect Chicago to have a 1 game lead on Minnesota, looking for the win to give them the for sure clinch.   Minny has a lot of really easy games coming up while the Bears are going to start playing some more difficult teams.

 

That said if Chicago can win Sunday against San Fran and than sweep GB (easier said than done) and they will have 8 wins.  Minny isn't a very good team, but they looked a lot better with Brad Johnson. 

 

I'm convinced that a Minny loss to any foe worse than them will knock them out.  However, Minny has some incredibly easy games and will end up making it at least close.

if Minnesota wins every game that they should (and I wouldn't bet on it), that'll give them 8 going into week 17 vs. the Bears, as will the Bears. I see your point and agree that it could very well come down to the last week. if the Lions catch fire, even they could be in it til the end. all the more reason, that if Orton falls below this barely adequate standard he's set, to put in Grossman.

Edited November 12, 2005 by AirScott

[GoodAsGould]

Why respond to a post that is so blatantly stupid? 

 

Some of you guys...wow.  I dont' even know why I bother sometimes.

 

I try to do my best to get people to see the light..... but Im starting to believe White Sox Josh is the biggest Orton homer ever so im just going to stop now.

[knightni]

If healthy, Rex Grossman will be more a part of the Bears future at QB than Kyle Orton will be.

[Kyyle23]

Why respond to a post that is so blatantly stupid? 

 

Some of you guys...wow.  I dont' even know why I bother sometimes.

 

Stop making it personal and acting like I am inconveniencing you by even daring to write a post . The context you gave was that we are judging Orton on a sample size of his play, a great pass to Muhammed against Detroit(two actually). My response is how can you know that Grossman is so much better, his sample size in the NFL is two and a half games smaller, and he didnt exactly light it up. Grossman pretty much managed the games, just like Orton does. And I remember Grossman throwing plenty of passes that were almost picked off, and making stupid rookie mistakes just like Orton. Grossman may very well be light years ahead of Orton, but he hasnt been able to showcase that due to injury.

 

And I didnt say Orton looked like Dan Marino, actually Tim Ryan said it on the game telecast and White Sox Josh repeated it. And I said it in a previous post, I didnt think that Orton would be the next Peyton Manning, I just used Peytons rookie year to show that Rookie year numbers can be pretty bad even on the best of the best.

 

Im really not to be a homer either way, I just think that NFL is a sport in which teams get on rolls, and consistency is a big part of it. Orton would have to have some really bad games in a row for me to want to change. And I will admit this is possible, Orton could completely "Craig Krenzel" on us and get figured out, but I think there is a little more to him than you guys will admit. In the end though, all I want is the Bears to win, and i will cheer for whoever is QB as long as it isnt Jonathan Quinn.

Edited November 13, 2005 by kyyle23

[White Sox Josh]

Stop making it personal and acting like I am inconveniencing you by even daring to write a post .  The context you gave was that we are judging Orton on a sample size of his play, a great pass to Muhammed against Detroit(two actually).  My response is how can you know that Grossman is so much better, his sample size in the NFL is two and a half games smaller, and he didnt exactly light it up.  Grossman pretty much managed the games, just like Orton does.  And I remember Grossman throwing plenty of passes that were almost picked off, and making stupid rookie mistakes just like Orton.  Grossman may very well be light years ahead of Orton, but he hasnt been able to showcase that due to injury.

 

And I didnt say Orton looked like Dan Marino, actually Tim Ryan said it on the game telecast and White Sox Josh repeated it.  And I said it in a previous post, I didnt think that Orton would be the next Peyton Manning, I just used Peytons rookie year to show that Rookie year numbers can be pretty bad even on the best of the best.

 

Im really not to be a homer either way, I just think that NFL is a sport in which teams get on rolls, and consistency is a big part of it.  Orton would have to have some really bad games in a row for me to want to change.  And I will admit this is possible, Orton could completely "Craig Krenzel" on us and get figured out, but I think there is a little more to him than you guys will admit.  In the end though, all I want is the Bears to win, and i will cheer for whoever is QB as long as it isnt Jonathan Quinn.

Look at Favre's first 2 full seasons. Yikes.

[GoodAsGould]

Why do people keep saying it will take a few bad games for you to not want Orton.... Among QB's that have been the starter for most of the season he has the lowest QB rating..... That means he is 30 of 30 in the NFL... well maybe 29 he is better than whoever is starting for San Fran.

[White Sox Josh]

Why do people keep saying it will take a few bad games for you to not want Orton.... Among QB's that have been the starter for most of the season he has the lowest QB rating..... That means he is 30 of 30 in the NFL... well maybe 29 he is better than whoever is starting for San Fran.

he is a f***in rookie. And right now his probably the ROY. Why replace that with a guy who you don't know what you will get.

[GoodAsGould]

he is a f***in rookie.  And right now his probably the ROY.  Why replace that with a guy who you don't know what you will get.

 

Lol RoY wow..... And I do know what Ill get with Grossman more yards and a more accurate arm.....

[mr_genius]

he is a f***in rookie.  And right now his probably the ROY.  Why replace that with a guy who you don't know what you will get.

 

 

no way Orton is Rookie of the Year

 

Orton isn't a good QB. He might be a serviceable QB in the future.

 

The Bears are winning because of a combination of being in a weak division, good defense and a decent running game. The offense, as a whole, is weak because of the QB position.

 

Grossman? meh, the guy can't stay healthy for more than 4 games. He'll probably end up being a bust, as are most of the Bears recent 1st round picks.

[White Sox Josh]

no way Orton is Rookie of the Year

 

Orton isn't a good QB. He might be a serviceable QB in the future. 

 

The Bears are winning because of a combination of being in a weak division, good defense and a decent running game.  The offense, as a whole, is weak because of the QB position.

 

Grossman?  meh, the guy can't stay healthy for more than 4 games.  He'll probably end up being a bust, as are most of the Bears recent 1st round picks.

who on offense has had a better year as a rookie. He will end up leading (by that i mean because he is a QB and the QB is technically the leader on the field when his team has the ball) to the playoffs. For a Rookie QB on a team that everyone picked for last that will win you Offensive ROY.

[farmteam]

who on offense has had a better year as a rookie. 

 

Cadillac Williams.

[White Sox Josh]

Cadillac Williams.

he has sucked since he got hurt. Trust me he is on my fantasy team.