Yankees ask about Rowand

[DBAHO]

Wow... just wow...

 

If you learned to read I said he managed to get on somehow either with a walk or a hit every game in the post season... POST SEASON his OBP wasn't .329... Either way my point was that he is hardly the worst at his position... Average maybe but average isn't "s***ty"... And there was a time that these same baseball Guru's said the same kind of s*** about Corey Patterson and Joe Borchard... where are they today...

No Post-season his OBP was .333. Big Difference There.

 

No-one's saying Rowand's the worst CF in the majors. We're saying, we've more got more important needs on this team to fill (e.g a DH, or a 1B if Paulie leaves), and when you've got Brian Anderson who is ready to play everyday, then for the RIGHT deal, Rowand is very expendable.

 

Have a look at the minor - league stats for Borchard and Anderson. Quite a difference in terms of the way Anderson has moved thru the system. It took 1 year for Anderson to move from A ball to AAA in Charlotte.

[SSH2005]

No Post-season his OBP was .333. Big Difference There.

 

No-one's saying Rowand's the worst CF in the majors. We're saying, we've more got more important needs on this team to fill (e.g a DH, or a 1B if Paulie needs), and when you've got Brian Anderson who is ready to play everyday, then for the RIGHT deal, Rowand is very expendable.

 

Have a look at the minor - league stats for Borchard and Anderson. Quite a difference in terms of the way Anderson has moved thru the system. It took 1 year for Anderson to move from A ball to AAA in Charlotte.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Gene Honda Civic]

Gets on base somehow every game? The guy had a freakin OBP of .329.

Translated: Has the inate ability to "hit himself" with a pitch. His HBP heavy-OBP, which is the only thing that made his walk rate bearable this season, might actually be part of the reason for his drop in power becuase he was banged up all year, and it was almost certainly responsible for the inordinate amount of balls he dribbled weakly to the SS as he was leaning out over the plate only to get jammed by a fastball on the inner half.

[SSH2005]

Translated: Has the inate ability to "hit himself" with a pitch. His HBP heavy-OBP, which is the only thing that made his walk rate bearable this season, might actually be part of the reason for his drop in power becuase he was banged up all year, and it was almost certainly responsible for the inordinate amount of balls he dribbled weakly to the SS as he was leaning out over the plate only to get jammed by a fastball on the inner half.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Haha, people tend to forget that about Rowand. Great post. You would have to be blind to miss the ridiculous number of times Rowand grounded out weakly to the shortstop. Wow, Rowand was hit by pitches 21 times. Yeah, that will definately skew his OBP.

Edited November 12, 2005 by SSH2005

[Felix]

I hate to break it to you but Rowand isn't a "key player in our organization."  Especially not when we have four good outfield prospects in Anderson, Young, Sweeney, and Owens and two of them are center fielders.

As of next year, Rowand is a key player in the organization, whether it be with clubhouse chemistry, defense, or with the bat. In future years, he won't be as important to the team, especially with Young, Anderson, Owens, and Sweeney are ready for the majors, however, the closest one who is MLB ready would be Anderson, who is still half a year to a year or so away from being a better fit in the organization that Rowand is.

 

This, of course, is merely my opinion, but whatever.

[witesoxfan]

As of next year, Rowand is a key player in the organization, whether it be with clubhouse chemistry, defense, or with the bat. 

 

How so?

 

If involved in a trade for Thome, we will probably lose next to nothing in chemistry. From everything I've read and heard, Thome is great in the clubhouse. We lose a stooge, but we gain about 30 homers.

 

If involved in a trade for Delgado, we added to the growing number of Latino players on the White Sox. I'm sure Delgado would be perfectly happy.

 

And about the defense and bat - by all accounts, Anderson should be able to put up atleast a .700 OPS next year. Considering what we would be adding with the addition of Thome/Delgado, that's a number the Sox can afford at the bottom of the order. If by some stroke of luck, Anderson turns into a .750-.800 OPS player, the Sox have gained much more offense from last year. If he manages to pull an .850-.900 OPS out of his ass, well then I'll be just f***in shellshocked. Not to mention that Anderson is just as good defensively as Rowand along with being a little over $3 mill cheaper.

 

I love Rowand...hell, you can see me arguing over in the Owens thread on the FutureSox Board to keep him in Chicago to have him be the starter next year...but if it means Thome or Delgado, then by all means, I'm for taking a chance.

 

And it's not like a solid CFer is never available. You can go back probably the past 10 trade deadlines, and find OFers being traded all over. Hell, last year, in one of the worst buyer markets in recent past, even involved 3 OFers being shipped off - two of them twice - in Lawton, Winn, and Cruz, and there may be more I'm not even thinking about.

[Felix]

How so?

 

If involved in a trade for Thome, we will probably lose next to nothing in chemistry.  From everything I've read and heard, Thome is great in the clubhouse.  We lose a stooge, but we gain about 30 homers. 

 

If involved in a trade for Delgado, we added to the growing number of Latino players on the White Sox.  I'm sure Delgado would be perfectly happy.

I've said this at least twice in this thread.

If the trade is for a big bat, ok, it's sensible. If its for extra pitching which would just sit on the bench and wait for an injury, then no, trading Rowand would make absolutely no sense imo.

 

I believe that Rowand will be a key player in the organization next year. Not only will he offer gold glove defense (which I'm not sure Anderson can, although, as said before, I haven't seen him play defense, so I can't judge it), but he has been a good teammate and leader on the team. His offensive numbers were down last year, yes, but as I said before, only 4 rookies all last year had a better OPS than Rowand did, and Brian Anderson likely won't put up numbers similar to Iguchi, Cano, Atkins, or even Swisher, which are the four rookies. I think that Anderson is still another year or so away from being an impact player in the outfield, and I might end up eating crow for this, but until he is ready, and has proven that he can provide better offense than Rowand, I'd stick with A-Row.

I also think that Rowand will put in a year closer to '04 than last year was. He's had another year of experience, and I believe that it will make a difference. Likely a ~.800 OPS, although, as I've said before, this is mostly just a random guess.

Edited November 12, 2005 by Felix

[maggsmaggs]

The dream line-up would be:

 

Pods (LF)

Iguchi (2b)

Delgado (DH)

Konerko (1b)

Dye (RF)

Crede (3b)

Pierzynski ©

Anderson (CF)

Uribe (SS)

 

I was thinking about moving Iguchi down in the order, but we wouldn't have a solid #2, the only other could be Uribe, but he is too hot/cold. Although, it 2004, he batted #2 and was awesome. Also, this line-up figures in trading Rowand as part of a Delgado trade. The ultimate trade would be Pierre and Delgado for Rowand, Anderson and someone else, but that's just dreaming.

[SSH2005]

I've said this at least twice in this thread.

If the trade is for a big bat, ok, it's sensible.  If its for extra pitching which would just sit on the bench and wait for an injury, then no, trading Rowand would make absolutely no sense imo.

 

I believe that Rowand will be a key player in the organization next year.  Not only will he offer gold glove defense (which I'm not sure Anderson can, although, as said before, I haven't seen him play defense, so I can't judge it), but he has been a good teammate and leader on the team.  His offensive numbers were down last year, yes, but as I said before, only 4 rookies all last year had a better OPS than Rowand did, and Brian Anderson likely won't put up numbers similar to Iguchi, Cano, Atkins, or even Swisher, which are the four rookies.  I think that Anderson is still another year or so away from being an impact player in the outfield, and I might end up eating crow for this, but until he is ready, and has proven that he can provide better offense than Rowand, I'd stick with A-Row.

I also think that Rowand will put in a year closer to '04 than last year was.  He's had another year of experience, and I believe that it will make a difference.  Likely a ~.800 OPS, although, as I've said before, this is mostly just a random guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How will Anderson ever be able to prove that he can provide better offense than Rowand if he doesn't play? Anderson has pretty much proven all he can in AAA already. He hit .295 with a .362 OBP for Charlotte. You must not think he's ready because of 34 major league at bats. What else could it be?

[Felix]

The ultimate trade would be Pierre and Delgado for Rowand, Anderson and someone else, but that's just dreaming.

Both Rowand and Anderson are better than Pierre.. no thanks.

[SSH2005]

The dream line-up would be:

 

Pods (LF)

Iguchi (2b)

Delgado (DH)

Konerko (1b)

Dye (RF)

Crede (3b)

Pierzynski ©

Anderson (CF)

Uribe (SS)

 

I was thinking about moving Iguchi down in the order, but we wouldn't have a solid #2, the only other could be Uribe, but he is too hot/cold.  Although, it 2004, he batted #2 and was awesome.  Also, this line-up figures in trading Rowand as part of a Delgado trade.  The ultimate trade would be Pierre and Delgado for Rowand, Anderson and someone else, but that's just dreaming.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd rather just package Rowand and Marte with some prospects for Delgado. I'd rather have Anderson than Pierre. Pierre will earn around $6 to $8 million next season and will be a free agent once the season is over.

[Felix]

How will Anderson ever be able to prove that he can provide better offense than Rowand if he doesn't play?  Anderson has pretty much proven all he can in AAA already.  He hit .295 with a .362 OBP for Charlotte.  You must not think he's ready because of 34 major league at bats.  What else could it be?

Anderson had a .829 OPS in AAA. Is that great? Not really. Put him in AAA for another year, see if his numbers improve, and then think about dealing Rowand. But until he puts up numbers in AAA that show that he will be a better offensive producer than Rowand, I'm not sold on it.

[greg775]

I used to love Thome but I think he's done.

Keep Rowand.

[maggsmaggs]

Anderson had a .829 OPS in AAA.  Is that great?  Not really.  Put him in AAA for another year, see if his numbers improve, and then think about dealing Rowand.  But until he puts up numbers in AAA that show that he will be a better offensive producer than Rowand, I'm not sold on it.

 

Aaron has never been a good OPB guy, Anderson, although strike out prone, is a better OPB player, provides more power, a higher average and more overall production. His triple A numbers indicate he is ready for the show, and that fact he hit two bombs of King Felix. Anderson can roam CF pretty well and especially if we lose Paulie, we need the offense that Anderson can bring.

[greg775]

if we lose Paulie, we need the offense that Anderson can bring.

 

We do? Anderson is unproven.

Rowand is a world series centerfielder.

[nitetrain8601]

I've said this at least twice in this thread.

If the trade is for a big bat, ok, it's sensible.  If its for extra pitching which would just sit on the bench and wait for an injury, then no, trading Rowand would make absolutely no sense imo.

 

I believe that Rowand will be a key player in the organization next year.  Not only will he offer gold glove defense (which I'm not sure Anderson can, although, as said before, I haven't seen him play defense, so I can't judge it), but he has been a good teammate and leader on the team.  His offensive numbers were down last year, yes, but as I said before, only 4 rookies all last year had a better OPS than Rowand did, and Brian Anderson likely won't put up numbers similar to Iguchi, Cano, Atkins, or even Swisher, which are the four rookies.  I think that Anderson is still another year or so away from being an impact player in the outfield, and I might end up eating crow for this, but until he is ready, and has proven that he can provide better offense than Rowand, I'd stick with A-Row.

I also think that Rowand will put in a year closer to '04 than last year was.  He's had another year of experience, and I believe that it will make a difference.  Likely a ~.800 OPS, although, as I've said before, this is mostly just a random guess.

 

So wait, you admit you haven't seen Anderson play, but yet you could come up with the conclusion that he's still a year away?

[witesoxfan]

Anderson had a .829 OPS in AAA.  Is that great?  Not really.  Put him in AAA for another year, see if his numbers improve, and then think about dealing Rowand. 

 

So that way the Sox miss out on Thome/Delgado?

[Felix]

Aaron has never been a good OPB guy, Anderson, although strike out prone, is a better OPB player, provides more power, a higher average and more overall production.  His triple A numbers indicate he is ready for the show, and that fact he hit two bombs of King Felix.  Anderson can roam CF pretty well and especially if we lose Paulie, we need the offense that Anderson can bring.

Don't get fooled by the two homeruns he hit.. he only had 16 in AAA..

And if you want to use that small sample, shall we look at his K:BB ratio in his brief majors stint?

[maggsmaggs]

We do? Anderson is unproven.

Rowand is a world series centerfielder.

 

Just because you played in the World Series doesn't mean you are a great player, he was a role player on a great "team." Paulie and maybe Dye were the superstars, and everyone else played their role. Just becuase Aaron was our CF in the World Series, doesn't mean that if we can upgrade we shouldn't because we might lose Aaron.

[nitetrain8601]

if we lose Paulie, we need the offense that Anderson can bring.

 

We do? Anderson is unproven.

Rowand is a world series centerfielder.

 

That's the worst logic ever. There's been ton of s***ty players on WS teams, but by your logic, they should've been kept in favor of new guys being brought in just because they were World Series players?

[Felix]

So wait, you admit you haven't seen Anderson play, but yet you could come up with the conclusion that he's still a year away?

I have seen his offensive numbers, yet I have not seen his defensive numbers. I trust offensive numbers more than defensive numbers anyway, since basically all defensive stats are flawed. OPS, on the other hand, seems to be a pretty good way of seeing the productivity of a player on offense.

 

So that way the Sox miss out on Thome/Delgado?

Have you read what I've said? If the trade is for a big bat, I can understand it. I've said this now 4 times in this thread (I consider Thome to be an over the hill, injury prone player however)

[maggsmaggs]

Don't get fooled by the two homeruns he hit.. he only had 16 in AAA..

And if you want to use that small sample, shall we look at his K:BB ratio in his brief majors stint?

Aaron had 13 in a homers paradise and he had 578 at-bats compared to Anderson's 448. Anderson will improve to a 25 homer guy in a couple years.

[SSH2005]

Felix, answer this one for me:

 

Anderson had a .829 OPS in AAA.  Is that great?  Not really.  Put him in AAA for another year, see if his numbers improve, and then think about dealing Rowand.  But until he puts up numbers in AAA that show that he will be a better offensive producer than Rowand, I'm not sold on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

.829 with good defense from the center field position isn't good?

 

By the way, in the last minor league season Rowand had (2000 in AA) before he was first called up by the Sox, he had a .758 OPS.

[Felix]

Aaron had 13 in a homers paradise and he had 578 at-bats compared to Anderson's 448.  Anderson will improve to a 25 homer guy in a couple years.

Show me anything that would lead you to believe that Anderson is capable of becoming a 25 homer guy.

[nitetrain8601]

Don't get fooled by the two homeruns he hit.. he only had 16 in AAA..

And if you want to use that small sample, shall we look at his K:BB ratio in his brief majors stint?

 

And his home ballpark in AAA, IIRC, plays like a pitcher's ballpark while the Cell plays like a HR hitter's ballpark. How many HR's did ARow have in Coors Light Field?