Bobby Abreu

[GoodAsGould]

Not that we're going to get Abreu for Rowand and Marte but what's wrong with that idea?  You could swap Pods and Abreu at the DH and left field position.  Both could stay healthier that way and Pods' legs would stay fresher.  You get the offensive production from both players either way.  And I'd rather have Abreu's arm in left field more often than Pods' weak arm.

 

But why not just move Dye to 1st and have Frank be our DH..... or if your assuming we keep Konerko why not just trade Dye? With Frank our lineup would have real potential worth the risk.

 

Podsenick

Iguchi

Abreu

Thomas

Konerko

Pieryznski

Crede

Uribe

Anderson

 

a course thats prob a dream so ill wake up now. I guess it could be better if you keep Dye and move Pods to CF.... Than just take Anderson out and put Dye after Konerko.

[knightni]

Dye - .274 31HR 86RBI 11SB - $5 mill salary.

 

Abreu - .286 24HR 102RBI 31 SB - $15 Mill salary.

 

Are a loss in power, a gain of a few pts in average, +16RBI and +20 steals worth the extra $10 mill?

Edited November 15, 2005 by knightni

[SSH2005]

But why not just move Dye to 1st and have Frank be our DH..... or if your assuming we keep Konerko why not just trade Dye?  With Frank our lineup would have real potential worth the risk.

 

Podsenick

Iguchi

Abreu

Thomas

Konerko

Pieryznski

Crede

Uribe

Anderson

 

a course thats prob a dream so ill wake up now.  I guess it could be better if you keep Dye and move Pods to CF.... Than just take Anderson out and put Dye after Konerko.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't mind the following lineup if we lose Konerko and could trade Rowand, El Duque, and Marte for Abreu (not that I see this happening):

 

Podsednik LF

Iguchi 2B

Abreu RF

Frank DH

Dye 1B

Pierzynski C

Crede 3B

Anderson CF

Uribe SS

 

If we don't re-sign Konerko and dumped Rowand, El Duque, and Marte's combined $10 million in payroll, we could afford Abreu. That would be a nice, speedy lineup with Pods, Iguchi, Abreu, and Anderson that Ozzie would like. The outfield alone would probably be the speediest in the entire MLB. Ozzie would love the Venezuelan connection too. I'm not sure the Phillies would be interested though.

 

Dye - .274 31HR 86RBI 11SB - $5 mill salary.

 

Abreu - .286 24HR 102RBI 31 SB - $15 Mill salary.

 

Are a loss in power, a gain of a few pts in average, +16RBI and +20 steals worth the extra $10 mill?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you really going to only look at Abreu's 2005 numbers? He owns a career AVG of .303 and a career OPS of .923. Dye is a career .272 hitter with a career OPS of .803. Abreu is a much better hitter than Dye.

Edited November 15, 2005 by SSH2005

[DBAHO]

I think a key with Abreu is him getting back to that Pre ASB swing of his. Let's have a look at some stats here;

 

He hits better against righties, obviously which is a plus. His home and away splits are a little alarming though;

 

HOME - .304/.423/.535

AWAY - .268/.387/.417

 

And you gotta remember he's what 31 now, and will be 32 at the start of next season. It's not likely he's going to have 31 steals again, even if Ozzie will run him a lot, he only had 10 stolen bases in 73 games after the ASB. It's a risk, and I think other teams who are really desperate for a bat like Toronto, and have the payroll to really go for him, will possibly do so, if he's available.

 

But Gillick's trying to move Thome first of course.

[SSH2005]

I think a key with Abreu is him getting back to that Pre ASB swing of his. Let's have a look at some stats here;

 

He hits better against righties, obviously which is a plus. His home and away splits are a little alarming though;

 

HOME - .304/.423/.535

AWAY - .268/.387/.417

 

And you gotta remember he's what 31 now, and will be 32 at the start of next season. It's not likely he's going to have 31 steals again, even if Ozzie will run him a lot, he only had 10 stolen bases in 73 games after the ASB. It's a risk, and I think other teams who are really desperate for a bat like Toronto, and have the payroll to really go for him, will possibly do so, if he's available.

 

But Gillick's trying to move Thome first of course.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Citizens Bank is a hitter's park but the Cell is even moreso. I would guess that Abreu's home numbers would at least stay the same if not improve at the Cell. He still had an .804 OPS on the road. That's not bad.

[DBAHO]

Citizens Bank is a hitter's park but the Cell is even moreso.  I would guess that Abreu's home numbers would at least stay the same if not improve at the Cell.  He still had an .804 OPS on the road.  That's not bad.

I actually think Citizens is more of a hitters park than the Cell right now, and sure you could make the excuse that the Cell gave up less runs because there's much better pitching than at Philly. But if you look at say White Sox hitters at home compared to Philly hitters at home, only Iguchi, Konerko, Dye and Rowand had better home splits, while out of everyday players for the Phillies, only David Bell had an average below .250.

 

I think in previous years, the Cell may have been more of a hitters stadium, but this year Citizens was moreso, even though you could argue the White Sox lost quite a bit of power in Lee, Ordonez and Valentin.

[SSH2005]

I actually think Citizens is more of a hitters park than the Cell right now, and sure you could make the excuse that the Cell gave up less runs because there's much better pitching than at Philly. But if you look at say White Sox hitters at home compared to Philly hitters at home, only Iguchi, Konerko, Dye and Rowand had better home splits, while out of everyday players for the Phillies, only David Bell had an average below .250.

 

I think in previous years, the Cell may have been more of a hitters stadium, but this year Citizens was moreso, even though you could argue the White Sox lost quite a bit of power in Lee, Ordonez and Valentin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point about how our pitching at the Cell would skew the park factor. The stats show that the Cell was the easiest park to hit a homer at.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfa...tor&season=2005

[RockRaines]

Dye - .274 31HR 86RBI 11SB - $5 mill salary.

 

Abreu - .286 24HR 102RBI 31 SB - $15 Mill salary.

 

Are a loss in power, a gain of a few pts in average, +16RBI and +20 steals worth the extra $10 mill?

Can you please expand on this theory that Dye and Abreu are close to having the same production? I would also like to call in career numbers and trends as well, because as we all know, those are a factor.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 15, 2005 -> 10:07 AM)

Can you please expand on this theory that Dye and Abreu are close to having the same production?  I would also like to call in career numbers and trends as well, because as we all know, those are a factor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. :rolly

 

If ownership is willing to pay for Abreu, who cares how much he is making?

[RockRaines]

Abreu career

 

.303 avg

.411 OBP

.512 SLG

.923 OPS

23 Hr

95 RBI

29 SB

107 BB

.982 F PCT

AVG GIDP 10

BB/SO .84

 

Dye Career

 

.272 BA

.334 OBP

.469 SLG

.803 OPS

26 HR

95 RBI

5 SB

53 BB

.980 F PCT

AVG GIDP 16

.44 BB/SO

 

Looks to me like Abreu is an upgrade and actually fits our mold as a player better. I think his production is worth the extra cost IMO.

Edited November 15, 2005 by RockRaines

[Frank the Tank 35]

I think a key with Abreu is him getting back to that Pre ASB swing of his. Let's have a look at some stats here;

 

He hits better against righties, obviously which is a plus. His home and away splits are a little alarming though;

 

HOME - .304/.423/.535

AWAY - .268/.387/.417

 

And you gotta remember he's what 31 now, and will be 32 at the start of next season. It's not likely he's going to have 31 steals again, even if Ozzie will run him a lot, he only had 10 stolen bases in 73 games after the ASB. It's a risk, and I think other teams who are really desperate for a bat like Toronto, and have the payroll to really go for him, will possibly do so, if he's available.

 

But Gillick's trying to move Thome first of course.

 

Career:

 

Home- .310/.430/532

Away- .296/.393/.492

 

Keep him away from the Home Run Derby!

[timotime]

hopefully we keep paulie and this is never an issue

[Balta1701]

If ownership is willing to pay for Abreu, who cares how much he is making?

Ok, now you know very well how wrong that remark is...or at least you should.

 

Every single person here should care how much Abreu is making...because you can't build an entire team with just Abreu. We have money that we need to give to Garland, Pierzynski, Crede and Konerko this year...and next year Buehrle enters an option year and Contreras is a FA. Dump money on Abreu, and all of a sudden there's nothing left to keep Buehrle, and he winds up a damn Cardinal...and we all curse KW for not resigning MB.

[YASNY]

Ok, now you know very well how wrong that remark is...or at least you should.

 

Every single person here should care how much Abreu is making...because you can't build an entire team with just Abreu.  We have money that we need to give to Garland, Pierzynski, Crede and Konerko this year...and next year Buehrle enters an option year and Contreras is a FA.  Dump money on Abreu, and all of a sudden there's nothing left to keep Buehrle, and he winds up a damn Cardinal...and we all curse KW for not resigning MB.

 

That's not a problem at all. All we have to do is say "We have to sign Buehrle no matter what it costs!"

[RockRaines]

Ok, now you know very well how wrong that remark is...or at least you should.

 

Every single person here should care how much Abreu is making...because you can't build an entire team with just Abreu.  We have money that we need to give to Garland, Pierzynski, Crede and Konerko this year...and next year Buehrle enters an option year and Contreras is a FA.  Dump money on Abreu, and all of a sudden there's nothing left to keep Buehrle, and he winds up a damn Cardinal...and we all curse KW for not resigning MB.

Abreu is a better hitter than Konerko and Dye and everyone on our team. If you get Abreu you really have no need to sign Konerko if you dont want to. The count will be gone after this year most likely, and they will never let MB go. Crede will leave eventually, so we have to get used to that idea anyway.

[timotime]

Abreu is a better hitter than Konerko and Dye and everyone on our team.  If you get Abreu you really have no need to sign Konerko if you dont want to.  The count will be gone after this year most likely, and they will never let MB go.  Crede will leave eventually, so we have to get used to that idea anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

its going to be one or the other, abreu or PK, and my money says we dont end up with abreu.

 

wow you sure are looking ahead. i would think that since we just won a world series, we should maybe hang on to what we have and not clean house, like you are talking about.

[RockRaines]

its going to be one or the other, abreu or PK, and my money says we dont end up with abreu.

 

wow you sure are looking ahead. i would think that since we just won a world series, we should maybe hang on to what we have and not clean house, like you are talking about.

Easy Ms Lippy, nobody said clean house. I think everyone would rather keep PK, of course this is the thread that is talking about interest In Abreu, maybe thats why we are talking about it?

[VAfan]

How exactly does $12-$18 mil combined savings over 3 years allow you to resign Jon and A.J.? That's probably enough for one or the other, definitely not both. Considering the market for starting pitching, that might not even be enough for Garland.

 

I find the whole argument somewhat pointless because the chances of the Sox getting either player are slim and none in my opinion. Both are very expensive players that play in the outfield, which is probably the deepest position in the organization right now. Does it really make sense to commit over $30 mil and 3 years to two guys well past 30 (Abreu will be for the life of the deal) when we have several young guys that could come up and contribute soon, plus all of our current starters signed at affordable prices for the next year? Does it really make sense to pay that much for a DH? I'd rather see us go for more affordable guys at DH that can also play 1B at times, something we might need in the near future. Frank and Durazo make the most sense among FA's, and trading for Delgado, Thome, or Helton makes more sense if we're going to give up talent and eat some money. All of them are probably bigger impact hitters when healthy than Giles or Abreu, especially if fielding isn't an issue.

 

The $12-18 million is more than enough because you have to include what they made last year as a baseline figure.

 

As for who we should have as a DH, last year it was Carl Everett, who played the outfield when he played at all. That was important. None of our young outfielders are ready to play any significant time, and I would send Anderson back to AAA for more seasoning. He struck out 12 times in 34 trips to the plate. That's worse than Timo Perez, who should definitely not be back.

 

My choice to replace Everett's slot would be a left-handed hitting outfielder who has a high on-base percentage, good power, does not clog up the basepaths, and can play all three outfield positions. He would give us complete insurance if Pods, Rowand, or Dye went down, and allow Ozzie to rest all three.

 

And for the longer term, remember that Dye is only signed for 2006, and I don't think Pods is going to have a long career when it doesn't seem like he can keep his wheels sharp for even an entire season.

 

Brian Giles would be modestly priced, but would fit the Sox perfectly.

[Guest JimH]

Brian Giles would be modestly priced, but would fit the Sox perfectly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good Lord man, put the Giles drum away. You have only mentioned this about 100 times already, he is gonna cost a 3 year deal at probably $25 million minimum. Meaning, not modestly priced.

[SSH2005]

Good Lord man, put the Giles drum away.  You have only mentioned this about 100 times already, he is gonna cost a 3 year deal at probably $25 million minimum.  Meaning, not modestly priced.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd rather have Giles at what he will cost than what Konerko is going to receive.

[qwerty]

Good Lord man, put the Giles drum away.  You have only mentioned this about 100 times already, he is gonna cost a 3 year deal at probably $25 million minimum.  Meaning, not modestly priced.

 

Very least he is gonna cost is 3-30. He is the best hitter available through both trade and free agency. Signing him to 3-30 is a modest price considering...

[SSH2005]

Very least he is gonna cost is 3-30. He is the best hitter available through both trade and free agency. Signing him to 3-30 is a modest price considering...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. If the rumor is true about Konerko wanting $75 million for 5 years, I'd rather have Giles in a second.

[Guest JimH]

Very least he is gonna cost is 3-30. He is the best hitter available through both trade and free agency. Signing him to 3-30 is a modest price considering...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It won't happen.

 

They will not sign a 35 yr. old OF to big money when they've got at least 3 younger cheaper ones waiting in the wings.

 

If they lose Konerko they'll want more power from 1B/DH and that ain't Giles.

 

Ozzie says he wants more speed at the top of the lineup, that ain't Giles either.

 

Think Juan Pierre. Giles is a better hitter but if we're talking realities here, think Juan Pierre.

[SSH2005]

It won't happen.

 

They will not sign a 35 yr. old OF to big money when they've got at least 3 younger cheaper ones waiting in the wings.

 

If they lose Konerko they'll want more power from 1B/DH and that ain't Giles.

 

Ozzie says he wants more speed at the top of the lineup, that ain't Giles either.

 

Think Juan Pierre.  Giles is a better hitter but if we're talking realities here, think Juan Pierre.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure but I think anyone who is suggesting Giles over Konerko would want to move Dye to first base and let Giles play right field and DH a couple times a week. Maybe bring Frank back to DH if he proves to be healthy. That lineup would look like this:

 

Podsednik LF

Iguchi 2B

Giles RF

Frank DH

Dye 1B

Rowand CF

Pierzynski C

Crede 3B

Uribe SS

 

Giles would be our lefty #3 hitter. He would not provide as much power as Konerko but his power numbers could go way up moving from PETCO to the Cell. His contract would also be cheaper and safer than what Konerko's likely will be. I agree with you though. This probably won't happen.

Edited November 19, 2005 by SSH2005

[Guest JimH]

I'm not sure but I think anyone who is suggesting Giles over Konerko would want to move Dye to first base and let Giles play right field and DH a couple times a week.  Maybe bring Frank back to DH if he proves to be healthy.  That lineup would look like this:

 

Podsednik LF

Iguchi 2B

Giles RF

Frank DH

Dye 1B

Rowand CF

Pierzynski C

Crede 3B

Uribe SS

 

Giles would be our lefty #3 hitter.  He would not provide as much power as Konerko but his power numbers could go way up moving from PETCO to the Cell.  His contract would also be cheaper and safer than what Konerko's likely will be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That scenario is far fetched and it won't happen. They are not going to sign Brian Giles no matter what. I see what you're saying but it's not going to work out that way.