Bobby Abreu

[Felix]

Pierre isnt that bad of an outfielder it comes down to this is everett and rowand better the pierre and abreu...the answer is NO

Pierre is crap. Plain and simple.

[Milkman delivers]

Pierre is crap.  Plain and simple.

 

Yes, pure crap...for all of his career. He is just plain garbage. What a loser he is, you know?

[Felix]

He's a good contact hitter, but defensively, he boasts an arm to rival Johnny Damon.

[Kalapse]

Also, Pierre isnt that bad of an outfielder, he had I think less then 5 errors last year.  His arm is really weak compaired to Aarons, but when you compair Aaron and Juans complete game, you can not say aaron is way better then pierre, they both have different things that they excel at.  And how can you say Pierre is going to make 7 mil in the offseason? I find that number way to high

lol. Yes because when you judge an OFer defensively you use errors. And 5 errors is too many as is. Pierre has one of the worst arms you are ever going to see in CF, the defensive aspect of a Rowand v Pierre arguement is non existent. Rowand blows him out of the water.

[Kalapse]

Why all the love for Abreu?  He's a very good ballplayer, but he's way overpriced.

 

$29 million over the next two years, plus a $2 million buyout (instead of another $16 million in 2008).  That's obscene. 

 

If Abreu were a free agent, this would be too much money.  To take it on and still give them a quality player like Aaron Rowand plus a pitcher makes it worse. 

 

For $10-12 million/year as a free agent, Abreu would be a very nice fit for the Sox.  He could take Everett's slot and be a very big upgrade.  I'm sure Ozzie and he would get along very well. 

 

All of this also applies to Carlos Delgado who hits better than Abreu but is due $44 million over the next 3 years.

Bobby Abreu is a great baseball player. He is as many would call a "five tool player". Imagine a better Magglio Ordonez, Abreu is better defensively than him + a better arm. Bobby has a little less consistent power than Ordonez but makes up with for it with great SB numbers. He consistently puts up 30sb/25hr/100rbi/.300/.400/.500/.900

 

'06 - $13M

'07 - $15M

'08 - $16Mteam $2Mbuyout.

 

How is this too much for a player of his caliber? Take a look at his numbers, his contact is not too expensive. Money could also come over from Philly with him if the right players were sent to the Phillies for him.

 

Delgado is due similar money over the next few seasons as Abreu. It really depends o what you want, if Ozzie really wants more speed, he could get 30SB out of the 3 hole with Abreu. Delgado does not bring you any speed.

[Kalapse]

Last year Pods>>>>Pierre.

True. But over the course of his career Pierre >>> Pods. And if you are going to trade for another leadoff type in Pierre, you'd probably want him leading off.

[VAfan]

Lets see, he's a 25 homer/100 rbi/.400 obp/30 steal guy, he's that left handed bat all of us have wanted for a while and he plays a solid right field.  He would be such a perfect 3 hitter....I would absolutely love to have Bobby on this team.

 

He's just not worth $15 million/year. Hell, his OPS wasn't even .900 last year.

 

For my money, I'd sign Brian Giles, who you could get for $8-9 million/year. He's not as young as Abreu, but he can play all 3 outfield positions and hits just about as well as Abreu. Plus, you don't have to give up any players to get him.

[Kalapse]

Personally I'd rather bring in Delgado as opposed to Abreu. But when it comes down to Ozzie;

 

Abreu - Venezuelan, with great speed and defense

Delgao - Puerto Rican, great power, good D at 1B, no speed

[Whitesoxfan56]

lol. Yes because when you judge an OFer defensively you use errors. And 5 errors is too many as is. Pierre has one of the worst arms you are ever going to see in CF, the defensive aspect of a Rowand v Pierre arguement is non existent. Rowand blows him out of the water.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never said that Pierre was a better defensive player then Rowand. The fact is when you look at the player as a whole, Pierre is better then Rowand, and there is no way around that

[Kalapse]

I never said that Pierre was a better defensive player then Rowand.  The fact is when you look at the player as a whole, Pierre is better then Rowand, and there is no way around that

For my money I'll take Rowand, but that's me.

 

I don't see the need for another leadoff hitter, I'm not convinced he's the kind of guy that could bat second and by acquiring him and letting Row go, you downgrade the defense big time.

 

Pierre is a better avg/obp hitter and has way more speed than Rowand. However Rowand will be much cheaper, much better defensively and give you more pop.

[VAfan]

Bobby Abreu is a great baseball player. He is as many would call a "five tool player". Imagine a better Magglio Ordonez, Abreu is better defensively than him + a better arm. Bobby has a little less consistent power than Ordonez but makes up with for it with great SB numbers. He consistently puts up 30sb/25hr/100rbi/.300/.400/.500/.900

 

'06 - $13M

'07 - $15M

'08 - $16Mteam $2Mbuyout.

 

How is this too much for a player of his caliber? Take a look at his numbers, his contact is not too expensive. Money could also come over from Philly with him if the right players were sent to the Phillies for him.

 

Delgado is due similar money over the next few seasons as Abreu. It really depends o what you want, if Ozzie really wants more speed, he could get 30SB out of the 3 hole with Abreu. Delgado does not bring you any speed.

 

As I said to Rowand44, if you want Abreu's numbers, why not sign Free Agent Brian Giles, who has actually had years when he hit more then 35 HRs, and who is obviously hampered playing in SD (look at his home and away splits last year - he's still above a 1.0 OPS on the road).

 

Giles was offered $21 million over 3 years by SD. I'm sure he won't take it, but I'm also pretty confident that he could be had for $8-9 million/year over 3 years.

 

Then you get a high-OBP left handed outfielder who can play all 3 outfield positions, but you don't have to give up any productive players in return. All while saving more than $10 million over the next two years.

 

What will that $10 million buy you? An extension for Jon Garland at least, plus the increased salary for AJ Pierzynski and Joe Crede.

 

Think with your brains. I'd take Abreu if he were a free agent for $10-12 million a year. In a trade, he's not worth that much.

[beck72]

How is this too much for a player of his caliber? Take a look at his numbers, his contact is not too expensive. Money could also come over from Philly with him if the right players were sent to the Phillies for him.

 

The sox would probably have the players the phils would need---Rowand for CF, Mate for the pen, and a good prospect like Josh Fields for 3b in '07 to take over for David Bell. A deal like that and money would come over

 

With the 3rd yr a team option the sox could cut him loose if things didn't work out.

[Whitesoxfan56]

For my money I'll take Rowand, but that's me.

 

I don't see the need for another leadoff hitter, I'm not convinced he's the kind of guy that could bat second and by acquiring him and letting Row go, you downgrade the defense big time.

 

Pierre is a better avg/obp hitter and has way more speed than Rowand. However Rowand will be much cheaper, much better defensively and give you more pop.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So lets just agree to disagree

 

I love Rowand as well, but an offense of Pierre, and Pods at the top, with Iguchi hitting lower in the order seems better then last years offense, but would become worse in the field. I guess we just need to wait and see.

[Soxpranos]

Personally I'd rather bring in Delgado as opposed to Abreu. But when it comes down to Ozzie;

 

Abreu - Venezuelan, with great speed and defense

Delgao - Puerto Rican, great power, good D at 1B, no speed

 

 

take any of the Latin players, you cant lose with them. Thome shouldnt even me mentioned for the White Sox... he's washed up.

[Whitesoxfan56]

As I said to Rowand44, if you want Abreu's numbers, why not sign Free Agent Brian Giles, who has actually had years when he hit more then 35 HRs, and who is obviously hampered playing in SD (look at his home and away splits last year - he's still above a 1.0 OPS on the road).

 

Giles was offered $21 million over 3 years by SD.  I'm sure he won't take it, but I'm also pretty confident that he could be had for $8-9 million/year over 3 years.

 

Then you get a high-OBP left handed outfielder who can play all 3 outfield positions, but you don't have to give up any productive players in return.  All while saving more than $10 million over the next two years.

 

What will that $10 million buy you?  An extension for Jon Garland at least, plus the increased salary for AJ Pierzynski and Joe Crede. 

 

Think with your brains.  I'd take Abreu if he were a free agent for $10-12 million a year.  In a trade, he's not worth that much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bobby Abreu>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Brian Giles

 

Compair Giles and Abreu is not fair to Abreu... Bobby is a five tool player, Giles is on the downside of his carrer, Abreu would hit perfectly in the 3 hole for the Sox with his combination of Speed and power

[beck72]

He's just not worth $15 million/year.  Hell, his OPS wasn't even .900 last year. 

 

For my money, I'd sign Brian Giles, who you could get for $8-9 million/year.  He's not as young as Abreu, but he can play all 3 outfield positions and hits just about as well as Abreu.  Plus, you don't have to give up any players to get him.

In 6 of the last 8 yrs Abreu's OPS was over .900 [and was pretty close those other two]. So that's not really fair

 

What he brings [high OBP, power, speed ,avg, a #3 hitter] the sox could use. And the pieces it would take to get him wouldn't effect the short or long term ability for the sox to win

[Felix]

I never said that Pierre was a better defensive player then Rowand.  The fact is when you look at the player as a whole, Pierre is better then Rowand, and there is no way around that

For this team, Rowand is a better fit. We had problems scoring runs as it is last year, do we really need another leadoff hitter?

[Whitesoxfan56]

For this team, Rowand is a better fit.  We had problems scoring runs as it is last year, do we really need another leadoff hitter?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I dont see how another leadoff hitter could hurt anything. Ozzie wants more speed at the top, and Pierre would fill that need. And yes we had problems scoring last year, and Pierre would help us score more as well

[Soxpranos]

For this team, Rowand is a better fit.  We had problems scoring runs as it is last year, do we really need another leadoff hitter?

 

Rowand dint light up the offesive stats... He is solid on D, but if any player is trade bait, it is him. Pods can play a very good CF himself if needed.. Abreu would be perfect for the Sox, and if we keep Paulie , we would be a much better team ten fold than with Rowand.

Edited November 12, 2005 by Soxpranos

[Whitesoxfan56]

Agreed 100% Soxpranos!

[Felix]

Rowand dint light up the offesive stats... He is solid on D, but if any player is tradbale it is him.  Pods can play a very good CF himself if needed.. Abreu would be perfect for the Sox, and if we keep Paulie , we would be a much better team ten fold than with Rowand.

I know that, but he has more potential for lighting it up than Pierre does in 2006.

[Whitesoxfan56]

I know that, but he has more potential for lighting it up than Pierre does in 2006.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How can you say that? Rowand had one good year, and one not so good year. Pierre has been a very good offensive player his entire career. Pierre brings more to the table with his speed and contact hitting then Rowand does with this inconsistant play on the offensive side of the ball with his undisaplined manner at the plate

[Kalapse]

Rowand dint light up the offesive stats... He is solid on D, but if any player is trade bait, it is him. Pods can play a very good CF himself if needed.. Abreu would be perfect for the Sox, and if we keep Paulie , we would be a much better team ten fold than with Rowand.

No, no he can not.

[Felix]

How can you say that? Rowand had one good year, and one not so good year.  Pierre has been a very good offensive player his entire career.  Pierre brings more to the table with his speed and contact hitting then Rowand does with this inconsistant play on the offensive side of the ball with his undisaplined manner at the plate

Rowands OPS last year, when he sucked offensively, was better than all but two of Pierre's seasons, and one of those seasons was in Colorado (2001).

Rowand also had more doubles than Pierre has ever hit in a single season in his career last year, and Rowand reached base on walks/HBP more than Pierre did last year (and around the same amount of Pierre's seasonal average).

Edited November 12, 2005 by Felix

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Whitesoxfan56 @ Nov 12, 2005 -> 04:54 PM)

Bobby Abreu>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Brian GilesCompair Giles and Abreu is not fair to Abreu... Bobby is a five tool player, Giles is on the downside of his carrer, Abreu would hit perfectly in the 3 hole for the Sox with his combination of Speed and power

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's ridiculous.

 

Bobby' SLG% was 70 points less from 2004, didn't bat .300, and his OBP was below his career average. I suppose he's on the "downside" of his career too?