Bobby Abreu

[Soxpranos]

No, no he can not.

 

 

Yes he can... he actually reads the ball betetr from CF form what he said in a interview. Played a Solid CF for the Brewers.

[SSH2005]

Yes he can... he actually reads the ball betetr from CF form what he said in a interview. Played a Solid CF for the Brewers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you miss him getting horrible jumps on balls in left field all season long?

[Felix]

Yes he can... he actually reads the ball betetr from CF form what he said in a interview. Played a Solid CF for the Brewers.

Actually, according to stats, he was better last year in LF than he was in 2004 in CF.

[Rowand44]

Yes he can.

No, he sucks in center.

[Soxpranos]

No wonder he said he gets a better read of the ball in CF? Rowand plays a deep center , so he gest to allot of balls in the gap... but he was one if not the worst CF's trying to get those gimme loopers in short CF. That drove Ozzie Crazy all year long, he even reinstated that in the playoffs when Rowand was plying to deep and let potetially tying and winning runs on during each playoff series. The bottom line is that Abreu gives us much more than Rowand will ever give us. If it takes for Rowand to go to get Abreu.. like DJ says it best.. Bye , bye... cya Rowand... give me Abreu any day over Rowand.

[Rowand44]

No wonder he said he gets a better read of the ball in CF?  Rowand plays a deep center , so he gest to allot of balls in the gap... but he was one if not the worst CF's trying to get those gimme loopers in short CF. That drove Ozzie Crazy all year long, he even reinstated that in the playoffs when Rowand was plying to deep and let potetially tying and winning runs on during each playoff series.  The bottom line is that Abreu gives us much more than Rowand will ever give us.  If it takes for Rowand to go to get Abreu.. like DJ says it best.. Bye , bye... cya Rowand... give me Abreu any day over Rowand.

Well duh but that's not the point. If you want to move Pods into center though then I'd rather keep aaron over bobby cause Pods would cost us a ton of runs there, but if Abreu were traded here for Rowand and others then Anderson is going to be in center.

[Frank the Tank 35]

As I said to Rowand44, if you want Abreu's numbers, why not sign Free Agent Brian Giles, who has actually had years when he hit more then 35 HRs, and who is obviously hampered playing in SD (look at his home and away splits last year - he's still above a 1.0 OPS on the road).

 

Giles was offered $21 million over 3 years by SD.  I'm sure he won't take it, but I'm also pretty confident that he could be had for $8-9 million/year over 3 years.

 

Then you get a high-OBP left handed outfielder who can play all 3 outfield positions, but you don't have to give up any productive players in return.  All while saving more than $10 million over the next two years.

 

What will that $10 million buy you?  An extension for Jon Garland at least, plus the increased salary for AJ Pierzynski and Joe Crede. 

 

Think with your brains.  I'd take Abreu if he were a free agent for $10-12 million a year.  In a trade, he's not worth that much.

 

Wrong. He just turned down a 3 year $25.5 mil contract from the Pads. He's looking for the whole 10 for 3 years. Wow, 9 homers (3 at Coors with 15 rbi) away versus 6 at home. Abreu brings more than Giles IMO. He'll have at least double if not triple the number of steals, at least the same amount of power if not more, Abreu has 7 straight years of over 100 BBs something Giles cannot attest to and a number that is NOT dependant on the length of the fences, and even in DIRECT competition (both played RF for NL teams) Abreu won the GG. Yes I realize that the award is somewhat of a joke and is based a lot on name recognition, but Giles is not some no-name second year player. In addition, Abreu is 3 years younger and likely in his prime whereas I see Giles' numbers declining, perhaps not next year as he might be in a more favorable park, but definitely after that.

 

That's ridiculous.

 

Bobby' SLG% was 70 points less from 2004, didn't bat .300, and his OBP was below his career average.  I suppose he's on the "downside" of his career too?

 

He's 31, primetime. I'm not one for making excuses for players, but since everyone seems to be making one for Giles, I'll defend Abreu here. Look at his first half numbers compared to his post-AS numbers. What happened at the AS break? Oh yeah, he was in the Home Run Derby and won it. I think that's where his swing got messed up and dropped his average from .307 to where he finished which was still a respectable .286. It also affected his first half power surge as he only hit 6 homers in the second half as compared to 18 in the first while hitting 3 more doubles in less games. It also probably didn't help that he played in every single game the entire season without a chance to rest and rethink his mechanics. Bobby's always placed average before power, else he could realistically hit 40, and can be counted on to consistently hit around the .300 mark.

[Dam8610]

Here's my opinion on this:

 

Rowand and Wells are pretty close to equal in value, with Wells having a slight advantage in power. The Jays turned down a Wells for Abreu swap, which would suggest that the Phillies offered that or something similar to it. Therefore, I would think that a Rowand and Marte for Abreu and cash swap would be a viable option for the White Sox, regardless of the Konerko situation. That trade would set up the following situations: Brian Anderson would inherit CF, Abreu would likely be the everyday RF while doing some DH duties, and Dye would be the primary DH. That would make for a minimal downgrade (if at all) in defense with a sizeable offensive upgrade. That's definitely something to consider IMHO.

[sayitaintso]

No wonder he said he gets a better read of the ball in CF?  Rowand plays a deep center , so he gest to allot of balls in the gap... but he was one if not the worst CF's trying to get those gimme loopers in short CF. That drove Ozzie Crazy all year long, he even reinstated that in the playoffs when Rowand was plying to deep and let potetially tying and winning runs on during each playoff series.  The bottom line is that Abreu gives us much more than Rowand will ever give us.  If it takes for Rowand to go to get Abreu.. like DJ says it best.. Bye , bye... cya Rowand... give me Abreu any day over Rowand.

You forgot the Uh-Oh before the Bye Bye. :uhoh

[SSH2005]

Here's my opinion on this:

 

Rowand and Wells are pretty close to equal in value, with Wells having a slight advantage in power. The Jays turned down a Wells for Abreu swap, which would suggest that the Phillies offered that or something similar to it. Therefore, I would think that a Rowand and Marte for Abreu and cash swap would be a viable option for the White Sox, regardless of the Konerko situation. That trade would set up the following situations: Brian Anderson would inherit CF, Abreu would likely be the everyday RF while doing some DH duties, and Dye would be the primary DH. That would make for a minimal downgrade (if at all) in defense with a sizeable offensive upgrade. That's definitely something to consider IMHO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wells has only a slight advantage over Rowand in power? Rowand has not shown that he can hit 25-30 homers every season like Wells has.

[3E8]

Abreu has 7 straight years of over 100 BBs something Giles cannot attest to and a number that is NOT dependant on the length of the fences

Past 7 Seasons:

 

BB's

 

Giles = 747

Abreu = 772

 

Abreu walked at a 3.3% greater rate than Giles over the past seven seasons (3.5 more walks than Giles in each season...:rolly).

 

K's

 

Giles = 492

Abreu = 859

 

Abreu struck out at a 74.6% greater rate than Giles over the past seven seasons.

Edited November 13, 2005 by 3E8

[Dam8610]

Wells has only a slight advantage over Rowand in power?  Rowand has not shown that he can hit 25-30 homers every season like Wells has.

 

Rowand has the ability to hit 20-25, especially in the Phillies' Park, and besides, I put Marte in the deal as well.

Edited November 13, 2005 by Dam8610

[SSH2005]

Rowand has the ability to hit 20-25, especially in the Phillies' Park, and besides, I put Marte in the deal as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Cell was more of a homerun haven than Citizens Bank Park was this past season and yet Rowand hit only 13 homers.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfa...tor&season=2005

[Dam8610]

The Cell was more of a homerun haven than Citizens Bank Park was this past season and yet Rowand hit only 13 homers.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfa...tor&season=2005

 

Rowand had a down year. I'm not saying Wells isn't a better power hitter than Rowand, but the discrepancy isn't all that great. That's where adding Marte in the deal comes in. That would more than cover the discrepancy trade value wise, and would likely send some $ to cover Abreu's contract to the Sox.

[GoodAsGould]

Rowand had a down year. I'm not saying Wells isn't a better power hitter than Rowand, but the discrepancy isn't all that great. That's where adding Marte in the deal comes in. That would more than cover the discrepancy trade value wise, and would likely send some $ to cover Abreu's contract to the Sox.

 

How do you know Rowand had a down year. Other people can just look at it and say 2004 was a fluke year and 2005 was the real Rowand.

[Dam8610]

How do you know Rowand had a down year.  Other people can just look at it and say 2004 was a fluke year and 2005 was the real Rowand.

 

Disagree with it if you want, that part is just opinion. It's not even close to being the most important part of what I was saying, and what should be being discussed here.

[GoodAsGould]

Disagree with it if you want, that part is just opinion. It's not even close to being the most important part of what I was saying, and what should be being discussed here.

 

It is if you are looking at Rowands trade value.... and his value is no where near Well's...... and Marte isnt exactly a stud...

[knightni]

It's all unproven speculation.

 

I'd like to see Rowand to NYY for Wang.

 

Then, send Contreras, Marte and El Duque to Florida for Delgado and cash.

 

Anderson can play cf and Delgado can be the DH or 1b depending on the Konerko situation.

 

Buy low, sell high.

 

Rowand and Contreras are peaking in the eyes of many right now.

 

Now is the time to make a move.

[Rowand44]

It's all unproven speculation.

 

I'd like to see Rowand to NYY for Wang.

 

Then, send Contreras, Marte and El Duque to Florida for Delgado and cash.

 

Anderson can play cf and Delgado can be the DH or 1b depending on the Konerko situation.

 

Buy low, sell high.

 

Rowand and Contreras are peaking in the eyes of many right now.

 

Now is the time to make a move.

No way in hell I want to trade Jose, I know you seem to believe his value won't get any higher and that may be true but imo he'll be our best pitcher next year and it would not be smart to get rid of him.

[DBAHO]

It's all unproven speculation.

 

I'd like to see Rowand to NYY for Wang.

 

Then, send Contreras, Marte and El Duque to Florida for Delgado and cash.

 

Anderson can play cf and Delgado can be the DH or 1b depending on the Konerko situation.

 

Buy low, sell high.

 

Rowand and Contreras are peaking in the eyes of many right now.

 

Now is the time to make a move.

No way would the Yankees trade Wang for Rowand, they pretty much won't trade Wang unless it's for an elite player.

 

I don't know how you can say Rowand's peaking though, after rhe year he had. Sure he was great defensively, but not offensively. And I wouldn't give up all those pitchers for Delgado. Remember, starting pitching was the formula that got us the World Series.

 

There's no point in trading 2 of our starters (and I'm including El Duque in that, because if we traded 1 he would be the replacement), without being able to sign a good FA SP, and there's not a lot on the market, besides A.J Burnett and Jarrod Washburn.

[VAfan]

In 6 of the last 8 yrs Abreu's OPS was over .900 [and was pretty close those other two]. So that's not really fair

 

What he brings [high OBP, power, speed ,avg, a #3 hitter] the sox could use. And the pieces it would take to get him wouldn't effect the short or long term ability for the sox to win

 

$30 million for two years, or $48 million for 3 years. Bobby Abreu isn't anywhere close to being worth that.

 

Wake up Sox fans. How did we win this year? By jettisoning the overpriced guys and filling the roster holes with solid players. Now you want to go back to sinking the roster with guys who make way too much money for what they bring to the table?

 

Sure, Giles is not as good as Abreu straight up. But that isn't the proper comparison. First, Giles is a Free Agent, so we don't have to give anyone up to sign him. Second, Giles would come for at least $10 million less over two years than Abreu.

 

So here's the comparison.

 

Giles, Jon Garland, AJ Pierzynski, Joe Crede, Aaron Rowand + Marte >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bobby Abreu

 

It would take at LEAST Rowand and Marte to get Abreu in trade.

For the $12 million you save between Giles and Abreu, I can take that money, add it to current salaries, and re-sign Jon Garland for two years, plus pay for AJ Pierzynski's and Joe Crede's salary increases.

 

 

Last year, it wasn't Lee for Pods and Vizcaino. It was Lee for Pods, Vizcaino, El Duque, and Pierzynski.

[CWSGuy406]

Bobby Abreu>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Brian Giles

 

Compair Giles and Abreu is not fair to Abreu... Bobby is a five tool player, Giles is on the downside of his carrer, Abreu would hit perfectly in the 3 hole for the Sox with his combination of Speed and power

 

Giles -- 2005 OPS+ of 148, career average of 146.

 

Abreu -- 2005 OPS+ of 123, career average of 138.

 

But yeah, keep talking out of your ass. It's enjoyable for the rest of us.

Edited November 13, 2005 by CWSGuy406

[3E8]

Something else I thought was funny about that is if you go to baseball-reference.com's Bobby Abreu page, it shows that the most similar batter in baseball history to Bobby Abreu is...............Brian Giles.

 

So I guess it's more like Bobby Abreu = Brian Giles.

Edited November 13, 2005 by 3E8

[jphat007]

Giles -- 2005 OPS+ of 148, career average of 146.

 

Abreu -- 2005 OPS+ of 123, career average of 138.

 

But yeah, keep talking out of your ass.  It's enjoyable for the rest of us.

 

That's just talking about hitting. OPS+ helps tell what kind of hitter a player is, but far from tells what kind of PLAYER are.

 

That being said, I'm not sure Giles isn't the better player. He is definitely not the all around player that Abreu is, but he probably is a little bit better hitter right at this point.

 

But the other guy was talking about player. You are talking about hitter. No need to say stuff like "But yeah, keep talking out of your ass. It's enjoyable for the rest of us." Doesn't make you look too intelligent.

Edited November 13, 2005 by jphat007

[CWSGuy406]

Something else I thought was funny about that is if you go to baseball-reference.com's Bobby Abreu page, it shows that the most similar batter in baseball history to Bobby Abreu is...............Brian Giles.

 

So I guess it's more like Bobby Abreu = Brian Giles.  

 

I was sort of thinking that myself. I know that Abreu is better than his 123 OPS+ this season, but they are very similar players -- other than the fact that Abreu steals some bases and Giles doesn't (upon review, Giles has averaged 11 SB's per 162 games).

 

I'm still shaking my head at the fact that Abreu won a GG. Seriously -- what the hell are these voters looking at? He ranked second to last among NL qualified RFers in ZR (out of eight), his Rate2 was below average at 97 (IIRC, 100 is average), and his Fielding Win Shares seem to be okay, but not particularly great at 3.7.

 

To go along with that, in Tango's 'Fans Scouting Report', he ranked below average. He seems to be like Timo Perez defensively -- all he has is a good arm (he's fast, but doesn't seem to get the best reads, too).

 

That's just talking about hitting. OPS+ helps tell what kind of hitter a player is, but far from tells what kind of PLAYER are.

 

That being said, I'm not sure Giles isn't the better player. He is definitely not the all around player that Abreu is, but he probably is a little bit better hitter right at this point.

 

But the other guy was talking about player. You are talking about hitter. No need to say stuff like "But yeah, keep talking out of your ass. It's enjoyable for the rest of us." Doesn't make you look too intelligent.

 

JPhat -- besides stealing bases, what 'category' is Abreu light years ahead of Giles in besides stealing bases? It's not just the whole 'Abreu>>>>>>>>Giles' thing that made me shake my head, either -- he's said plenty of things in this thread that have made me want to pull a Jeckle (pounding head on keyboard).

Edited November 13, 2005 by CWSGuy406