Bobby Abreu

[beck72]

$30 million for two years, or $48 million for 3 years.  Bobby Abreu isn't anywhere close to being worth that.

 

Wake up Sox fans.  How did we win this year?  By jettisoning the overpriced guys and filling the roster holes with solid players.  Now you want to go back to sinking the roster with guys who make way too much money for what they bring to the table? 

 

Sure, Giles is not as good as Abreu straight up.  But that isn't the proper comparison.  First, Giles is a Free Agent, so we don't have to give anyone up to sign him.  Second, Giles would come for at least $10 million less over two years than Abreu. 

 

So here's the comparison.

 

Giles, Jon Garland, AJ Pierzynski, Joe Crede, Aaron Rowand + Marte >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bobby Abreu

 

It would take at LEAST Rowand and Marte to get Abreu in trade.

For the $12 million you save between Giles and Abreu, I can take that money, add it to current salaries, and re-sign Jon Garland for two years, plus pay for AJ Pierzynski's and Joe Crede's salary increases. 

Last year, it wasn't Lee for Pods and Vizcaino.  It was Lee for Pods, Vizcaino, El Duque, and Pierzynski.

 

What you're saying is it's ok to add a big salary like Giles but not Abreu? [though Giles should get a 3 yr $30 mill deal. Abreu would be locked up for 2 yrs at $28 mill. so it's a wash cash wise. But signing a 34 yr old to a 3 yr deal like Giles more than goes against your point that adding Abreu would hurt the sox. Bobby for two yrs would probably be more productive than a guy in his mid 30's playing for 3 yrs] It's basically a matter of preference. CAses could be made for either. But the sox could add abreu or Giles and it wouldn't effect the sox ability to keep Crede, Jon ,or AJ.

[beck72]

I'm still shaking my head at the fact that Abreu won a GG.  Seriously -- what the hell are these voters looking at?  He ranked second to last among NL qualified RFers in ZR (out of eight), his Rate2 was below average at 97 (IIRC, 100 is average), and his Fielding Win Shares seem to be okay, but not particularly great at 3.7.

 

To go along with that, in Tango's 'Fans Scouting Report', he ranked below average.  He seems to be like Timo Perez defensively -- all he has is a good arm (he's fast, but doesn't seem to get the best reads, too).

If the sox got Abreu he'd be mostly a DH. Though if he was serviceable he could play RF to rest Dye.

[Whitesoxfan56]

If the sox got Abreu he'd be mostly a DH. Though if he was serviceable he could play RF to rest Dye.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is Dye better then Abreu if the field? I really dont know, but Bobby did win a GG, but Jermaine is solid in RF. He we got Bobby, that would be a good situation to have, like you said we can rest one or the other and have them DH

[beck72]

Is Dye better then Abreu if the field?  I really dont know, but Bobby did win a GG, but Jermaine is solid in RF.  He we got Bobby, that would be a good situation to have, like you said we can rest one or the other and have them DH

By all accounts, Dye is better all around in the field. Abreu may have a better arm. But the Sox wouldn't be getting him for his glove. It'd would be for his bat.

 

The same would apply to Giles. He'd Dh as well.

[Whitesoxfan56]

By all accounts, Dye is better all around in the field. Abreu may have a better arm. But the Sox wouldn't be getting him for his glove. It'd would be for his bat.

 

The same would apply to Giles. He'd Dh as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats what I thought, but I wasnt sure. Thanks

[beck72]

Thats what I thought, but I wasnt sure. Thanks

It would be huge long shot it the sox got either. But my money would be on Abreu. But a case could be made for either. IMo, it'd also be far easier to trade for one guy, than outbid a boatload of teams for an in demand free agent.

[CWSGuy406]

What you're saying is it's ok to add a big salary like Giles but not Abreu? [though Giles should get a 3 yr $30 mill deal. Abreu would be locked up for 2 yrs at $28 mill. so it's a wash cash wise. But signing a 34 yr old to a 3 yr deal like Giles more than goes against your point that adding Abreu would hurt the sox. Bobby for two yrs would probably be more productive than a guy in his mid 30's playing for 3 yrs] It's basically a matter of preference. CAses could be made for either. But the sox could add abreu or Giles and it wouldn't effect the sox ability to keep Crede, Jon ,or AJ.

 

No -- I think he's saying he'd rather give Giles a contract (which will probably be similar to that of Abreu's) than give up players along with the money for Abreu.

[beck72]

No -- I think he's saying he'd rather give Giles a contract (which will probably be similar to that of Abreu's) than give up players along with the money for Abreu.

 

IMO, it's still easier to acquire a guy via a trade than via free agency. And Abreu would be easier to get than convincing a guy like Giles to sign

[RockRaines]

I didnt feel like reading through 5 pages of posts, but let me see if I picked up the summary of this thread. The Phils asked about a GG CF who was probably the best hitter on his team, who has a career OPS of .811, who almost consistantly puts up around 30 hr's and 100 RBI every year.

 

And YOU guys assume that they would be interested in a player who has no GG's is coming off of a year in which he was a pedestrian hitter just because they happen to play the same position? Is that about right?

 

If the Phils were going to trade Abreu for A-row it would go down as one of the biggest one sided trades in recent history.

[Rowand44]

And YOU guys assume that they would be interested in a player who has no GG's is coming off of a year in which he was a pedestrian hitter just because they happen to play the same position?  Is that about right?

 

 

One person.

[RockRaines]

One person.

Figured.

[VAfan]

What you're saying is it's ok to add a big salary like Giles but not Abreu? [though Giles should get a 3 yr $30 mill deal. Abreu would be locked up for 2 yrs at $28 mill. so it's a wash cash wise. But signing a 34 yr old to a 3 yr deal like Giles more than goes against your point that adding Abreu would hurt the sox. Bobby for two yrs would probably be more productive than a guy in his mid 30's playing for 3 yrs] It's basically a matter of preference. CAses could be made for either. But the sox could add abreu or Giles and it wouldn't effect the sox ability to keep Crede, Jon ,or AJ.

 

Abreu costs $48 million for 3 years. Giles couldn't cost more than $30 million for three years, and would probably cost closer to $27 million. How does that become a wash, cash wise???

 

For that "wash" I can sign Jon Garland for 2 extra years, plus pay him what he's worth this coming year. I can also lock up AJ Pierzynski for 3 years. And I might still have money left over to sign Joe Crede for a few years.

 

Plus, I would have given up no current players to add Giles.

 

I don't see why you think it is harder to sign a Free Agent than to trade for a player. Do you have any idea what the Phillies would demand for Abreu? Giles is ready to sign at any time. He says he wants to play for a contender. We've never been able to sell World Series Champions to any free agents before. And with our pitching, you have to like our chances to repeat.

[ZoomSlowik]

Abreu costs $48 million for 3 years.  Giles couldn't cost more than $30 million for three years, and would probably cost closer to $27 million.  How does that become a wash, cash wise???

 

For that "wash" I can sign Jon Garland for 2 extra years, plus pay him what he's worth this coming year.  I can also lock up AJ Pierzynski for 3 years.  And I might still have money left over to sign Joe Crede for a few years.

 

Plus, I would have given up no current players to add Giles. 

 

I don't see why you think it is harder to sign a Free Agent than to trade for a player.  Do you have any idea what the Phillies would demand for Abreu?  Giles is ready to sign at any time.  He says he wants to play for a contender.  We've never been able to sell World Series Champions to any free agents before.  And with our pitching, you have to like our chances to repeat.

 

How exactly does $12-$18 mil combined savings over 3 years allow you to resign Jon and A.J.? That's probably enough for one or the other, definitely not both. Considering the market for starting pitching, that might not even be enough for Garland.

 

I find the whole argument somewhat pointless because the chances of the Sox getting either player are slim and none in my opinion. Both are very expensive players that play in the outfield, which is probably the deepest position in the organization right now. Does it really make sense to commit over $30 mil and 3 years to two guys well past 30 (Abreu will be for the life of the deal) when we have several young guys that could come up and contribute soon, plus all of our current starters signed at affordable prices for the next year? Does it really make sense to pay that much for a DH? I'd rather see us go for more affordable guys at DH that can also play 1B at times, something we might need in the near future. Frank and Durazo make the most sense among FA's, and trading for Delgado, Thome, or Helton makes more sense if we're going to give up talent and eat some money. All of them are probably bigger impact hitters when healthy than Giles or Abreu, especially if fielding isn't an issue.

Edited November 14, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[Kalapse]

I didnt feel like reading through 5 pages of posts, but let me see if I picked up the summary of this thread.  The Phils asked about a GG CF who was probably the best hitter on his team, who has a career  OPS of .811, who almost consistantly puts up around 30 hr's and 100 RBI every year. 

 

And YOU guys assume that they would be interested in a player who has no GG's is coming off of a year in which he was a pedestrian hitter just because they happen to play the same position?  Is that about right?

 

If the Phils were going to trade Abreu for A-row it would go down as one of the biggest one sided trades in recent history.

Bobby Abreu is a right fielder.

[Rowand44]

Bobby Abreu is a right fielder.

I think he meant that row and Vernon play the same position.

[Kalapse]

I think he meant that row and Vernon play the same position.

Duh. Appearantly I can't read.

[bighurt2719]

If the Phillies were willing to trade Abreu for Wells, and it was the Jays who turned it down because of the salary, it means the Sox would have a good shot at Abreu for Aaron Rowand straight up if they were willing to take on the salary.

 

I think it's worth it.

 

i guess it depends on what KW prefers. I tend to think that he is more inclined to go with Arows glove over Abreu's bat (which didn't knock the phils socks off this year, but it was good).

[TheKillerB's]

On Rotoworld there is an article about possible trades and here were the ones involving the White Sox:

 

Lyle Overbay - Brewers - Overbay is more likely to be traded than either Geoff Jenkins or Carlos Lee, but it looks like the Brewers are leaning towards keeping all three, at least until midseason. If they change their mind and deal Overbay, it’s not like they’d be risking everything on Prince Fielder being ready. They also have Corey Hart available to step in if Fielder falters. If they keep him now, the Brewers risk Overbay’s trade value declining as he gets more expensive.

 

Trade possibility: To White Sox for OF Chris Young and RHP Sean Tracey

Prediction: Stays

 

Jon Garland - White Sox - It’s the same deal with Garland. Assuming no extension with the White Sox is reached, he will have just turned 27 when he becomes eligible for free agency next winter. If the White Sox lose Paul Konerko to the Angels or another team, using Garland as bait would be the best way to replace him. The Diamondbacks have talent to spare and would probably be the top candidates to land him should something happen.

 

Trade possibility: To Phillies with C Francisco Hernandez for OF Bobby Abreu

Prediction: Stays

 

 

Hypothetically if these happened, which chances are they wont, this would majorly upgrade the White Sox offense. Goodbye Paulie but hello 2 stud players one of which is a perennial All-star and one has a cool name. But losing Jon seems out of the picture because we all know KW would not sacrifice pitching for hitting. So unless the phillies would accept Aaron instead of Jon this will never happen. But a guy can dream right.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I didnt feel like reading through 5 pages of posts, but let me see if I picked up the summary of this thread.  The Phils asked about a GG CF who was probably the best hitter on his team, who has a career  OPS of .811, who almost consistantly puts up around 30 hr's and 100 RBI every year. 

 

And YOU guys assume that they would be interested in a player who has no GG's is coming off of a year in which he was a pedestrian hitter just because they happen to play the same position?  Is that about right?

this coming from a guy who is closing in on 5,000 posts in less than a year!

 

No, that's not about right and if you bothered to read before you post you would know that.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Yeah I can't imagine losing both Konerko AND Garland this offseason. That said, if we had to do that to keep other guys in a few years (Buehrle) then it'd be ok (although I don't think that its an either or situation.

[RockRaines]

this coming from a guy who is closing in on 5,000 posts in less than a year!

 

No, that's not about right and if you bothered to read before you post you would know that.

Well, thats why I said i wasnt going to read every page. And my thoughts were basically echoed as you are the only person who thinks this is doable. So I will stop at that fact.

 

Only in xbox world would someone trade A-row for Abreu.

[bighurt2719]

Only in xbox world would someone trade A-row for Abreu.

 

perfectly put.

[Balta1701]

Ok, I just read through over 1/2 of this thread, which appeared while I was gone, and I just have to toss in this little bit...the ol' details of his contract.

 

# $3 million signing bonus

# $8.5 million in 2003

# $10 million in 2004

# $12.5 million in 2005

# $13 million in 2006

# $15 million in 2007

 

# Either $2 million buyout or $16 million club option in 2008

 

# Plus these escalator clauses:

 

If he finishes first in MVP voting, base salary goes up $275,000 in each succeeding year, including option year; or $150,000 if second in MVP; or $100,000 if third.

 

Plus: $100,000 for World Series MVP; $50,000 for LCS MVP; $50,000 for Gold Glove; $50,000 for Silver Slugger; $50,000 for making All-Star team; $50,000 for postseason Sporting News or Baseball American all-star teams; $100,000 for MVP (or $75,000 if second, or $50,000 if third).

 

# Plus: complete no-trade clause through the life of the contract.

Has anyone in this thread, or in that article, suggested he would be willing to waive the no trade clause I didn't see anything that said he would.

[bighurt2719]

if and only if we lose PK do i consent to this deal

[Punch and Judy Garland]

if and only if we lose PK do i consent to this deal

OK. I'll let Abreu's agent know that he shouldn't pack his bags until you sign off on it