Brian Anderson

[RockRaines]

So what is your point? If your point is that there are very few really good defensive center fielders out there then I would agree. There aren't. So what is your point here?

 

YASNY is also correct in stating that the coaching staff is also at fault for playing Rowand so deep. They could bring him in at anytime. So if Ozzie looks disappointed, maybe it is not at Rowand, but at the fact that a little blooper fell in for a hit and not a hard hit ball. If it happens consistently it can be very frustrating.

Ig-nore

[Chisoxfn]

The really good ones play somewhat shallow though.  Hunter plays a pretty shallow CF, and if I remember correctly, A Jones, and B Williams at their prime played VERY shallow.

Isn't it the opposite, the really good ones play deep because they can come in on the ball so well. IIRC Andruw Jones plays one of the deeper CF's in the game (I may be totally off) but I swear I remember a few people I knew involved in baseball telling me exactly this.

 

Most of the time they play center, but in Andruw Jones case he's probably the best player to ever play the game when it comes to coming in on the ball and he's able to get to so many balls so he plays a little deeper and can cover an insane amount of ground.

 

I could be totally off.

[Soxpranos]

If Rowand is playing too deep in CF that's the fault of Ozzie and the coaching staff (Harold, specifically, iirc).  They should position the outfielders where they want them to play.

 

They do and try and tell him, watch some games closely, you see Ozzie screaming at him and motionong him to move in. Aaron still plays deep? Anyone that has seats near the dugout know this, Ozzie constantly yeloing at him to move in.

[Soxpranos]

The really good ones play somewhat shallow though.  Hunter plays a pretty shallow CF, and if I remember correctly, A Jones, and B Williams at their prime played VERY shallow.

 

Finally a guy that knows where a good CF should be positioned at. Good ones play shallow and take the crap away, and have enough speed and ability to get the deep ones as well. Please see past gold glove winners... thats is one reason Aaron wont and didnt deserve a gold glove, to many easy hits allowed by his deep play.

[Soxpranos]

So what is your point? If your point is that there are very few really good defensive center fielders out there then I would agree. There aren't. So what is your point here?

 

YASNY is also correct in stating that the coaching staff is also at fault for playing Rowand so deep. They could bring him in at anytime. So if Ozzie looks disappointed, maybe it is not at Rowand, but at the fact that a little blooper fell in for a hit and not a hard hit ball. If it happens consistently it can be very frustrating.

 

I been there and seen it both live and TV, he is motioning while yelling at him to move up and not play in the seats. Anyone that going to Sox fest and has a chance to ask Ozzie something, do yourself a favor and ask him, do u think Aaron plays to deep? Ozzie will no doubt give you a straight answer. Im hoping.

Edited November 16, 2005 by Soxpranos

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Jim Edmonds plays the shallowest center I can think of. YOu want to play shallow if you are really good. That is because you can take away bloopers while still getting to shots to the wall (he does). When you play deep you will take away extra-base hits but you give up a lot more singles. That doesn't mean Rowand isn't extremely good out there but ideally you'd have a guy who can play shallow and get to deep

[qwerty]

Double over rowands head or flares in front of him for a single? Hmm...

 

It is amazing how we have a guy on our team who is one of the top outfielders at getting to the ball ( far and away too) that we try and downplay his defense. His arm blew this past season and he still has not learned how to field a ball on the ground... but getting to balls? Wouldn't want anyone other than him outside of hunter and maybe sizemore.

Edited November 16, 2005 by qwerty

[Soxpranos]

Double over rowands head or flares in front of him for a single? Hmm...

 

It is amazing how we have a guy on our team who is one of the top outfielders at getting to the ball ( far and away too) that we try and downplay his defense. His arm blew this past season and he still has not learned how to field a ball on the ground... but getting to balls? Wouldn't want anyone other than him outside of hunter and maybe sizemore.

 

 

Like the previous poster said it best.. Edmonds play CF the way you should, shallow with the ability to catch the bloops and deep balls. A man with a bloop hit single, can easily wind up at 3rd base in a matter of 2 pitches? Your assesment is in favor of our own CF. You can add Vernon Wells , Andruw Jones and Edmonds that are far superior on defense and on offense as well. Just to name a few.

Edited November 16, 2005 by Soxpranos

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Double over rowands head or flares in front of him for a single? Hmm...

 

It is amazing how we have a guy on our team who is one of the top outfielders at getting to the ball ( far and away too) that we try and downplay his defense. His arm blew this past season and he still has not learned how to field a ball on the ground... but getting to balls? Wouldn't want anyone other than him outside of hunter and maybe sizemore.

 

again qwerty, I'm not tryiong to knock Rowand because he's probably in the conversation for the best 6-7 CF's in the game but you'd rather have him in center than Edmonds?

[Chisoxfn]

again qwerty, I'm not tryiong to knock Rowand because he's probably in the conversation for the best 6-7 CF's in the game but you'd rather have him in center than Edmonds?

Not even a doubt in my mind. Aaron Rowand >>>> Jim Edmonds defensively and its an easy call to make.

 

Torri Hunter and Andruw Jones are two of the CF's that are head and shoulders above Aaron. Aside from that Mike Cameron is one I'd rate rather similarly to Aaron (and I don't know how Cameron did defensively this year). Also Mark Kotsay (who I think is pretty damn good).

 

Jim Edmonds isn't as good as any of them.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 16, 2005 -> 04:16 AM)

Not even a doubt in my mind.  Aaron Rowand >>>> Jim Edmonds defensively and its an easy call to make.

 

Torri Hunter and Andruw Jones are two of the CF's that are head and shoulders above Aaron.  Aside from that Mike Cameron is one I'd rate rather similarly to Aaron (and I don't know how Cameron did defensively this year).  Also Mark Kotsay (who I think is pretty damn good).

 

Jim Edmonds isn't as good as any of them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree completely with you. I never thought Edmonds was a great CF. He made those fantastic catches because he was getting bad jumps. Great CFers, or any great OFer for that matter, barely ever dive. They usually get great jumps and take excellent paths to get to the ball that there is no need to dive. How often did you ever see Griff Jr. dive? How about Andruw Jones? Mike Cameron? Torii Hunter? Not half as much as Edmonds. Edmonds has always been overrated due to his bad jumps. He makes the easy play look spectacular. Kind of Sammy Sosa like, but he is better than Sosa ever was.

 

By the way, I agree that Mark Kotsay is a damn good defensive CFer. I would put him above Rowand and Cameron. Cameron is one of the best as well though. Grady Sizemore is pretty good too. I only saw him a couple times live, but he looked damn good to me, even though he made that costly error at the end of the season.

[Chisoxfn]

I agree completely with you. I never thought Edmonds was a great CF. He made those fantastic catches because he was getting bad jumps. Great CFers, or any great OFer for that matter, barely ever dive. They usually get great jumps and take  excellent paths to get to the ball that there is no need to dive. How often did you ever see Griff Jr. dive? How about Andruw Jones? Mike Cameron? Torii Hunter? Not half as much as Edmonds. Edmonds has always been overrated due to his bad jumps. He makes the easy play look spectacular. Kind of Sammy Sosa like, but he is better than Sosa ever was.

 

By the way, I agree that  Mark Kotsay is a damn good defensive CFer. I would put him above Rowand and Cameron. Cameron is one of the best as well though. Grady Sizemore is pretty good too. I only saw him a couple times live, but he looked damn good to me, even though he made that costly error at the end of the season.

Sizemore will definately be in that group.

[Rowand44]

Not even a doubt in my mind.  Aaron Rowand >>>> Jim Edmonds defensively and its an easy call to make.

 

It's not even close at this point. Aaron is so much better then Edmonds in the field, Jim is the most overrated defensive outfielder in the league, imo.

[YASNY]

If a guy's strength is going back on balls, then he needs to play shallow. Someone else's strength may be coming in on those little flares, so he'd play deeper. There shouldn't be any set way to judge the position.

 

In other words, someone can be just as good regardless whether he plays deep or shallow.

[GoodAsGould]

If a guy's strength is going back on balls, then he needs to play shallow.  Someone else's strength may be coming in on those little flares, so he'd play deeper.  There shouldn't be any set way to judge the position. 

 

In other words, someone can be just as good regardless whether he plays deep or shallow.

 

Yes but it seems like more of the better defensive CF's... the top ones(Andruw Jones, Hunter, Wells etc....) play more of a shallow CF. While some very good ones for example Rowand play deep.... it just seems if you can get good jumps and everything you are able to get more outs if you play a shallow CF.

[timotime]

It's not even close at this point.  Aaron is so much better then Edmonds in the field, Jim is the most overrated defensive outfielder in the league, imo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

yes.

[Chisoxrd5]

It's not even close at this point.  Aaron is so much better then Edmonds in the field, Jim is the most overrated defensive outfielder in the league, imo.

 

Jim Edmonds = master of making the routine catch in look very unroutine. He turns very catchable balls into amazing plays almost because he chooses to do so. He has talent but his range isn't all tha great and some of his dives and stuff are pretty hilarious. Aaron has more range and doesn't turn the centerfield position into a fashion show.