Green Day's Bigotry

[Heads22]

To listen to some people on TV and in print talk you'd think it was written by Satan himself.

 

 

If you listen to other people on TV you'd swear being a liberal is being Castro's best friend. It goes both ways....if you plan to generalize people by listening to one extreme, there's no reason it can't go the other way.

 

 

I'm gonna go to bed though....getting up in 6 hours.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

If you listen to other people on TV you'd swear being a liberal is being Castro's best friend. It goes both ways....if you plan to generalize people by listening to one extreme, there's no reason it can't go the other way.

I'm gonna go to bed though....getting up in 6 hours.

 

 

Point taken. However Im still waiting for someone to answer the question of why it's acceptable to bash Christians and their values and why those doing the bashing can call themselves tolerant at the same time and keep a straight face.

[Heads22]

Bashing anyone is not right. Any logical person will say that - Christian or otherwise. I understand what you are trying to say but I think you're overgeneralizing a bit. Basic moral values are held by anyone with a shred of intelligence, but, then again, people disagree on what these values are.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Bashing anyone is not right. Any logical person will say that - Christian or otherwise. I understand what you are trying to say but I think you're overgeneralizing a bit. Basic moral values are held by anyone with a shred of intelligence, but, then again, people disagree on what these values are.

 

 

What Im driving at is that I want to see the same level of uproar and outrage when someone bashes Christians as when other groups such as Muslims, Jews, Gays, Racial Minorities etc....etc... get trashed. Unfortunately, those who are so zealous at protecting racial, ethnic and religous minorities seem to think that bashing the majority is somehow acceptable. It's not.

[Rex Kickass]

Ugh. Not this again.

 

As a Christian myself. I'm sick of people who claim the mantle acting all oppressed when they get called out on being intolerant. Most of them aren't what their faith is all about to begin with.

 

I went to Campus Crusade meetings in college and they didn't feel like they're making "progress" unless they're attacked so they provoke it to begin with.

 

I personally think that if we're going to take a look at an example of what a faith should be in practice, I think we should look at someone like Jimmy Carter. Say what you will about his presidency, but there is a man who lives up to the faith he preaches every day. Maybe we should ask him if Christianity is under attack. But we don't. Because everyone knows that his answer might be grounded in reality.

 

Instead we hear from blowhards like Bill O'Reilly who think that saying "Happy Holidays" in the Sears catalog is akin to burning the baby Jesus in effigy and Pat Robertson who advocates assassinating foreign leaders. We get people like Jerry Falwell who are quick to blame women for being too feminist as a main cause of the September 11th bombing and Fred Phelps who apparently hates everyone.

 

If the Christian right wants to not be under attack, maybe it should stop attacking.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Ugh. Not this again.

 

As a Christian myself. I'm sick of people who claim the mantle acting all oppressed when they get called out on being intolerant. Most of them aren't what their faith is all about to begin with.

 

I went to Campus Crusade meetings in college and they didn't feel like they're making "progress" unless they're attacked so they provoke it to begin with.

 

I personally think that if we're going to take a look at an example of what a faith should be in practice, I think we should look at someone like Jimmy Carter. Say what you will about his presidency, but there is a man who lives up to the faith he preaches every day. Maybe we should ask him if Christianity is under attack. But we don't. Because everyone knows that his answer might be grounded in reality.

 

Instead we hear from blowhards like Bill O'Reilly who think that saying "Happy Holidays" in the Sears catalog is akin to burning the baby Jesus in effigy and Pat Robertson who advocates assassinating foreign leaders. We get people like Jerry Falwell who are quick to blame women for being too feminist as a main cause of the September 11th bombing and Fred Phelps who apparently hates everyone.

 

If the Christian right wants to not be under attack, maybe it should stop attacking.

 

 

You're so quick to point out people who are an embarassment like Robertson, Falwell etc...etc.... They do not represent mainstream Christianity and you know it. They are a tiny, yet vocal, minority. Those idiots do Christianity a disservice because their rediculous statements are just what the Christian bigots need so they can point their finger and say "That's the religous right". The people who I am talking about are everyday people who go to church, practice their religon and try to live their lives the right way only to have their beliefs dragged through the mud by a bunch of hypocrites who say tolerance out of one side of their mouth and "fundamentalist idiot" out of the other.

 

Im sick and tired of people like Billie Joe s***bag, or whatever his name is running around bashing Christianity and getting heaps of praise from the left for doing it.

 

I want to hear you answer for those on the left who go around, as I said before, calling anyone who reads a bible, gets within 50 feet of a church and votes Republican an idiot, fundamentalist, etc........etc......

Edited November 16, 2005 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[Gene Honda Civic]

Can we get back on topic here folks?

 

My name is Earl is great.

 

I mean who wouldn't want to split a case of luke warm Miller High Life with Earl, Randy, and Crabman on the fake grass in front of their trailer. You could even see who could knock over the pink flamingo lawn ornaments with the bottle caps. Good times.

 

/we're just lucky we got 'em.

[Rex Kickass]

You're so quick to point out people who are an embarassment like Robertson, Falwell  etc...etc....  They do not represent mainstream Christianity and you know it.  They are a tiny, yet vocal, minority.  Those idiots do Christianity a disservice because their rediculous statements are just what the Christian bigots need so they can point their finger and say "That's the religous right".  The people who I am talking about are everyday people who go to church, practice their religon and try to live their lives the right way only to have their beliefs dragged through the mud by a bunch of hypocrites who say tolerance out of one side of their mouth and "fundamentalist idiot" out of the other.

 

Im sick and tired of people like Billie Joe s***bag, or whatever his name is running around bashing Christianity and getting heaps of praise from the left for doing it. 

 

I want to hear you answer for those on the left who go around, as I said before, calling anyone who reads a bible, gets within 50 feet of a church and votes Republican an idiot, fundamentalist, etc........etc......

 

Nobody here is praising anyone for bashing Christianity. I'm quick to point out Robertson and Falwell. I'm also quick to point out people like Jimmy Carter and Billy Graham. Problem is, when it comes to Christian spokespeople where are the non-wackjobs?

 

Pat Robertson has the 700 Club.

Dobson has a syndicated show on hundreds of radio stations.

That mormon chick from the Real World was on the Real World.

We know that at least two of these people have access to the White House right now. How much access do you think non-wackjob Christian leaders have?

How many stations are they on?

 

There are also left wing Christians who are prominent yet not well respected. I.E. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc. Mostly because they're crooks.

 

And that's Christianity's problem here. It has a public face of cheats, liars and asshats. And most of that face doesn't wanna let you into their church unless you believe exactly like they do. And most of that face wants to attack other people and be intolerant.

 

The Christian right refers to a segment of politically active (re:wacktivists) people within Christianity. It doesn't refer to people who happen to believe in Jesus who vote Republican or Libertarian or whatever. These people seem to think that Christianity is under attack... and if anyone mentions that religion belongs on the blue side of the aisle get all pissed off.

 

I'm not saying its right. But has anyone thought that all this attack on Christian religion might be a byproduct of people of faith who feel that their religion has been hijacked? Whether it actually has been or not?

[YASNY]

So you're saying n*****, f**, k*** or gook are in the same league as redneck or idiot? Words aren't just words, they have emotion, and in many cases hate behind them. k*** isn't a word, it's a derogatory slur with racism and hate attached to it. Does redneck have some sort of hate behind it? Sure it does, but it's not even close to racial and sexist slurs. I must have forgotten how Southern white males were persecuted throughout history in comparison to blacks, Jews, Irish and Asians.

 

And it's not sad that I find many Christians completely lacking in logic. A spade is a spade, and someone who ignorantly believes that some people go to hell for their sexual beliefs or their lack of prayer don't deserve my time.

 

Whether the persecution levels meets your criteria or not, any word that is attached to any group of people that is used in a derogatory manner is prejudicial. So, yes, redneck is equivilent to k***, s*** or whatever.

[YASNY]

I'd just like to say that the phrase he used is not racist in origin.  Can't really get on his case for that.

 

I've always wondered about the history behind the origination of the phrase, and whether it had racial overtones or not. I have refrained from using it on here several times because I'm not sure. If you can enlighten me as to how you know it's not racist in origin, I'd appreciate it.

 

For the record, I always suspected that it was.

[Goldmember]

Can we get back on topic here folks?

 

My name is Earl is great.

 

I mean who wouldn't want to split a case of luke warm Miller High Life with Earl, Randy, and Crabman on the fake grass in front of their trailer. You could even see who could knock over the pink flamingo lawn ornaments with the bottle caps. Good times.

 

/we're just lucky we got 'em.

 

[Texsox]

You're so quick to point out people who are an embarassment like Jackson, Farakan  etc...etc....  They do not represent mainstream Democrats and you know it.  They are a tiny, yet vocal, minority.  Those idiots do Democrats a disservice because their rediculous statements are just what the Liberal bigots need so they can point their finger and say "That's the liberal left". 

 

Ahem, Nuke, would you mind doing the same thing when you think of liberals? Substitute liberals for Christians in your post and you hit the nail on the head.

[Steff]

I've always wondered about the history behind the origination of the phrase, and whether it had racial overtones or not.  I have refrained from using it on here several times because I'm not sure.  If you can enlighten me as to how you know it's not racist in origin, I'd appreciate it. 

 

For the record, I always suspected that it was.

 

 

Perhaps the world can use "a diamond is a diamond", "a club is a club", a heart is a heart..." instead... :rolly

 

Poor snakes and rats.. I wonder if they realize the injustice they have endured.

[YASNY]

Perhaps the world can use "a diamond is a diamond", "a club is a club", a heart is a heart..." instead...  :rolly

 

Poor snakes and rats.. I wonder if they realize the injustice they have endured.

 

I also used that very justification as well. The point is that it COULD be derived from racist remarks and it wouldn't shock me if that was the case.

 

Of course, they could have been talking about shovels.

[Texsox]

I also used that very justification as well.  The point is that it COULD be derived from racist remarks and it wouldn't shock me if that was the case.

 

Of course, they could have been talking about shovels.

 

Ah the joys of google

 

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19970115

 

Let's get two things straight here: first, the expression to call a spade a spade is thousands of years old and etymologically has nothing whatsoever to do with any racial sentiment. The second is that in spite of this, some people think it is a racial statement, and therefore it should be treated with some caution.

 

To call a spade a spade, which means, ironically for this discussion, 'to speak plainly and bluntly; to speak without euphemisms', is first found in Ancient Greece. The exact origin is uncertain; the playwright Menander, in a fragment, said "I call a fig a fig, a spade a spade," but Lucian attributes the phrase to Aristophanes. Later, Plutarch notes that "The Macedonians are a rude and clownish people who call a spade a spade." (It is worth noting that the Greek word translated as "spade" seems actually to mean something like "bowl" or "trough"; the "spade" may be based on a Renaissance mistranslation. In this case the original expression was "to call a bowl a bowl," and thus the "spade" expression is "only" 500, rather than 2,500, years old.)

 

After it first appeared in English in the sixteenth century, the saying became quite common, and was used in various forms and allusions. My favorite English example:

 

    Cecily: When I see a spade I call it a spade.

 

    Gwendolen: I am glad to say I have never seen a spade. It is obvious that our social spheres have been widely different.

 

    --Oscar Wilde, The Importance of Being Earnest

 

Spade meaning 'a black person' is far more recent; it is first found in the early twentieth century. It derives from the black color of the suit of spades in a deck of playing cards.

 

Clearly our expression to call a spade a spade was very well established long before the word spade had any racial sense. However, today the word does have a racial sense. If the expression is assumed to be offensive, it should be used with caution even if there's no real basis for the assumption. This is not an unusual event. The word bloody, for example, does not derive from a profane oath such as "by our lady," but that's what people thought, and the word was considered quite offensive. The incorrect etymological assumption did not change the word's offensiveness. Few people today would object to call a spade a spade, but some people might, and one should at the very least be aware of that.

 

However, we could find origins of gay as meaning happy, and other words that have been hijacked and their meaning changed to hurt someone. Common sense and decency tells me to avoid phrases that could be misconstrued and hurtful.

[Steff]

I also used that very justification as well.  The point is that it COULD be derived from racist remarks and it wouldn't shock me if that was the case.

 

Of course, they could have been talking about shovels.

 

 

I agree. It could. But in the situation it was used above, and how I have used it here, and in the real world, I've never used it in relation to an african american.

 

Someone was just looking to see if the s*** would stick to the wall..

[Steff]

Common sense and decency tells me to avoid phrases that could be misconstrued and hurtful.

 

 

It should speak louder sometimes..

[kapkomet]

After reading all of this, I agree with Rex's statement that the far right and far left have so far hijacked the moderate stance that we ALL have a bad name for believeing ANYTHING anymore.

 

Jimmy Carter and Billy Graham are GREAT examples of where I wish the "extreme" positions were. If that were the case, we'd be a lot better for it. Both are very good men.

[Texsox]

After reading all of this, I agree with Rex's statement that the far right and far left have so far hijacked the moderate stance that we ALL have a bad name for believeing ANYTHING anymore.

 

Jimmy Carter and Billy Graham are GREAT examples of where I wish the "extreme" positions were.  If that were the case, we'd be a lot better for it.  Both are very good men.

 

[Kyyle23]

I still think its funny that the guys from Green Day are considered bigots because they named their album/DVD "Bullet in a Bible". You would think that it they preached hating Christianity throughout the length of the disc with the way this thread unfolded.

[The Critic]

Why do I get the feeling tomorrow you will be changing your screen name to "Cool Mom". 

LOL!!!!!!

Hardly, man, HARDLY.

I'm so freakin' out of touch with "the kids today" - my own daughter's favorite phrase lately is "Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad, you're embarrassing me!!!!"

....she is FIVE, by the way............FIVE!!!!!!

[Steff]

LOL!!!!!!

Hardly, man, HARDLY.

I'm so freakin' out of touch with "the kids today" - my own daughter's favorite phrase lately is "Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad, you're embarrassing me!!!!"

....she is FIVE, by the way............FIVE!!!!!!

   

 

 

LMAO!!! My neice, who is also 5, just told Jim and I that she wanted us to take her to the Circus and not to bring her parents because they aren't "cool"...

 

[The Critic]

LMAO!!! My neice, who is also 5, just told Jim and I that she wanted us to take her to the Circus and not to bring her parents because they aren't "cool"... 

 

Kids are unreal today, aren't they?

My little girl already has posters of Ashlee Simpson, Avril Lavigne, Kelly Clarkson and Green Day ( OMG, NOT THEM!!!!! ) on her bedroom walls, talks about "rocking out" to her CDs, and stuff like that.

She's 5 going on 16.

No wonder my hair is turning grey at light-speed.....

[Steff]

Kids are unreal today, aren't they?

My little girl already has posters of Ashlee Simpson, Avril Lavigne, Kelly Clarkson and Green Day ( OMG, NOT THEM!!!!! ) on her bedroom walls, talks about "rocking out" to her CDs, and stuff like that.

She's 5 going on 16.

No wonder my hair is turning grey at light-speed.....

 

 

I can't believe it. The stuff that comes out of her mouth stops me dead in my tracks.

 

At the salon the other day she was with me and I stopped to make an appointment.. as I am looking at the shampoo, she walks up to the counter and says "I'd like an eyebrow wax please..".

[Kid Gleason]

Heh, my daughter actually thinks I'm cool. She says I'm weird, but she also thinks I'm pretty cool. It probably helps that I am a musician who plays music she does like, and I collect toys, love monsters and stopped aging at about 12. MY daughter has some of my Universal Monster toys in her room, as a matter of fact.

 

My wife on the other hand, she thinks I'm a complete dork. But hey, I can't please everybody in my house.