Move Iguchi

[indyman]

The CW is Iguchi would be a much better hitter if he wasn't batting second. By batting second he is distracted, and has to give him self up all the time. What do the facts say?

 

Batting Average with man on 1st: .326 (slugging .511)

 

Batting Average with none on/none out: .205

 

It doesn't appear batting second hurts Iguchi. He actually maybe getting better pitches to hit.

[Rowand44]

The CW is Iguchi would be a much better hitter if he wasn't batting second.  By batting second he is distracted, and has to give him self up all the time.  What do the facts say?

 

Batting Average with man on 1st:  .326 (slugging .511)

 

Batting Average with none on/none out:  .205

 

It doesn't appear batting second hurts Iguchi.  He actually maybe getting better pitches to hit.

When nobody is out there was a good chance he was either bunting or hitting behind pods to get him to 3rd when he was on 2nd with no outs. Also, ya when scott is on first base it would help him because pitchers only half focus on him. The point everyone makes and I agree is that as good of a number 2 hitter as Tad was and he as great, if you move him down in the order he can be a run producer.

 

EDIT: My bad, I think I misread the stat a little bit. Like Kalapse said though it's kind of ridiculous to take one stat and analyze it.

Edited November 15, 2005 by Rowand44

[Kalapse]

Why did you use none on/none out? Is it becuase he's batting .271 with the bases empty? You really have to take all stats into consideration when making a case like this.

[southsider2k5]

The CW is Iguchi would be a much better hitter if he wasn't batting second.  By batting second he is distracted, and has to give him self up all the time.  What do the facts say?

 

Batting Average with man on 1st:  .326 (slugging .511)

 

Batting Average with none on/none out:  .205

 

It doesn't appear batting second hurts Iguchi.  He actually maybe getting better pitches to hit.

 

Why would you only look at those two specific sitations??? There are a bunch of different scenarios that Iguchi would either have to give himself up, or get to swing the bat. Your picks seems to be biased towards exactly what you want them to portray.

 

The most important stat when looking at whether Tads is hurt by hitting second is to look at his average with two strikes. Because he sees a lot of fastballs, and has to take them to give Pods a chance to run, that is a much more vital stat. Look at how bad hits 0-2, 1-2, and 2-2 to get a more accurate view of the reality of hitting behind a base stealer, because odds are he will be taking strikes in order to give Pods a chance to steal.

 

Also by focusing only on a runner at first base you are looking only at the runner who has not moved. How many times did Pods steal 2nd only to be moved over by Tads on a groudball to the right side? That wouldn't factor into your numbers either

 

I gotta say if you are going to say we need to trade someone, you need to make a better case than this...

[TheBigHurt]

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 15, 2005 -> 03:14 PM)

Why would you only look at those two specific sitations???  There are a bunch of different scenarios that Iguchi would either have to give himself up, or get to swing the bat.  Your picks seems to be biased towards exactly what you want them to portray.

 

The most important stat when looking at whether Tads is hurt by hitting second is to look at his average with two strikes.  Because he sees a lot of fastballs, and has to take them to give Pods a chance to run, that is a much more vital stat.  Look at how bad hits 0-2, 1-2, and 2-2 to get a more accurate view of the reality of hitting behind a base stealer, because odds are he will be taking strikes in order to give Pods a chance to steal. 

 

Also by focusing only on a runner at first base you are looking only at the runner who has not moved.  How many times did Pods steal 2nd only to be moved over by Tads on a groudball to the right side?  That wouldn't factor into your numbers either

 

I gotta say if you are going to say we need to trade someone, you need to make a better case than this...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

[AddisonStSox]

The CW is Iguchi would be a much better hitter if he wasn't batting second.  By batting second he is distracted, and has to give him self up all the time.  What do the facts say?

 

Batting Average with man on 1st:  .326 (slugging .511)

 

Batting Average with none on/none out:  .205

 

It doesn't appear batting second hurts Iguchi.  He actually maybe getting better pitches to hit.

 

Methinks indyman ain't from around these parts.

[indyman]

Methinks indyman ain't from around these parts.

 

Whatever stat you compare it with, when he is batting with a man on first he's hitting over .300, slugging percentage over .500. That doesn't appear to be much of a distraction.

[AddisonStSox]

Ok, um...I'm sorry...but, are you making any salient point that I might just be missing?

[3E8]

The most important stat when looking at whether Tads is hurt by hitting second is to look at his average with two strikes.  Because he sees a lot of fastballs, and has to take them to give Pods a chance to run, that is a much more vital stat.  Look at how bad hits 0-2, 1-2, and 2-2 to get a more accurate view of the reality of hitting behind a base stealer, because odds are he will be taking strikes in order to give Pods a chance to steal.

 

0-2 = .149/.163/.277

 

1-2 = .105/.104/.118 (Lower OBP than average )

 

2-2 = .189/.197/.230

[southsider2k5]

Whatever stat you compare it with, when he is batting with a man on first he's hitting over .300, slugging percentage over .500.  That doesn't appear to be much of a distraction.

 

I am glad to see you read anything that people replied to you with.

 

First of all, the only time he has to worry about moving a runner over is when he has Pods on first base and no one out. If anyone else is on first base, in any other situation, the arguement is worthless.

 

-He doesn't have to give himself up if the 8th or 9th hitter is on first base and there are outs.

-He also doesn't have to worry about taking pitches if anyone else is on first base other than Podsednik, because he doesn't have to worry about them running. Odds are if there is a runner at first base when Iguchi is swinging, it was either when Pods was hurt, and couldn't steal, or it isn't Pods, which also negates your arguement (and leads back to the top bullet point)

-You aren't factoring in ABs that Iguchi gives up when either Pods leads off with a double or he steals second, and then Iguchi gives up his AB by rolling a groundball to the right side of the infield.

-You also aren't factoring in the hitting with two strikes factor, but I will throw them out there just to put a few more holes into your arguement.

0-2=.149/.227/.444

1-2=.105/.118/.222

2-2=.189/.230/.427

 

Picking one individual stat and isolating it at the expense of the big picture is cheating yourself.

[NorthSideSox72]

One other thing to keep in mind: in becoming a 2-hole hitter, he adjusted his style of hitting not just swing-to-swing, but as a whole. That means that he took himself out of his usual swing and adapted, for the sake of the team. It would have been difficult in some given at bat to change back to his natural, more leveraged hitting style. Not impossible mind you, but more difficult.

 

Therefore, I think it's likely that if he gets to hit 6-7-8 somewhere, he can regain a hitting style more natural to him, and probably improve his numbers dramatically.

[Balta1701]

It is also worth considering that there may be more here than the statistics can show.

 

When Iguchi first came over here, he didn't know any of the pitchers he would be facing or how they would pitch him. It took him quite a while to settle into a role, and over a month before he hit his first HR, IIRC.

 

As the season went on, he did adapt to his role...which in a huge number of cases, involved pushing the ball to the right side. As the season went on, you could even see this in the way he was swinging - he'd try to inside-out pitches even when no one was on base (it's probably hard to adapt to not doing that on some pitches.) When he'd hit a home run, a lot of times he'd even hit that to right field.

 

I don't think we can really give a perfect estimate of how his numbers would change if we stuck him in a run-producing spot in the lineup the whole year and let him try to produce runs out of that spot...through either hitting the ball over the wall or driving the pitch where it's easiest to hit it.

[NorthSideSox72]

It is also worth considering that there may be more here than the statistics can show.

 

When Iguchi first came over here, he didn't know any of the pitchers he would be facing or how they would pitch him.  It took him quite a while to settle into a role, and over a month before he hit his first HR, IIRC.

 

As the season went on, he did adapt to his role...which in a huge number of cases, involved pushing the ball to the right side.  As the season went on, you could even see this in the way he was swinging - he'd try to inside-out pitches even when no one was on base (it's probably hard to adapt to not doing that on some pitches.)  When he'd hit a home run, a lot of times he'd even hit that to right field.

 

I don't think we can really give a perfect estimate of how his numbers would change if we stuck him in a run-producing spot in the lineup the whole year and let him try to produce runs out of that spot...through either hitting the ball over the wall or driving the pitch where it's easiest to hit it.

 

Thief!!!!

[indyman]

One other thing to keep in mind: in becoming a 2-hole hitter, he adjusted his style of hitting not just swing-to-swing, but as a whole.  That means that he took himself out of his usual swing and adapted, for the sake of the team.  It would have been difficult in some given at bat to change back to his natural, more leveraged hitting style.  Not impossible mind you, but more difficult.

 

Therefore, I think it's likely that if he gets to hit 6-7-8 somewhere, he can regain a hitting style more natural to him, and probably improve his numbers dramatically.

 

Your observation is possible. However, the point I'm trying to make is to assume his numbers will "improve dramatically" is at the very least open to debate. And to assume someone else can step into the two slot, and meet or equal Tad's production in that slot is also questionable.

[NorthSideSox72]

Your observation is possible.  However, the point I'm trying to make is to assume his numbers will "improve dramatically" is at the very least open to debate.  And to assume someone else can step into the two slot, and meet or equal Tad's production in that slot is also questionable.

 

I agree with your last sentence. And I agree that the improvement is an unknown (which is why I used the word PROBABLY, before the words you quoted me on).

[White Sox Josh]

Iguchi should be the #3 hitter because he is the best All-Around Hitter on this team. If he was a #3 hitter he could probably hit 30 Home Runs and 100 RBI.

[bmags]

Iguchi should be the #3 hitter because he is the best All-Around Hitter on this team.  If he was a #3 hitter he could probably hit 30 Home Runs and 100 RBI.

 

i'd say thats a long shot honestly.

[White Sox Josh]

i'd say thats a long shot honestly.

he plays in one of the best Home Runs parks in US Cellular Field and he probably only got 300 at-bats where he wasn't trying to move Pods over and focusing on hitting to the right side or giving himself up. Yet he still hit 15 Home Runs. Edited November 15, 2005 by White Sox Josh

[qwerty]

Vlad is better than pujols too...

[witesoxfan]

he plays in one of the best Home Runs parks in US Cellular Field and he probably only got 300 at-bats where he wasn't trying to move Pods over and focusing on hitting to the right side or giving himself up.  Yet he still hit 15 Home Runs.

 

So basically according to your logic, Podsednik was on base 300 times or so.

[White Sox Josh]

So basically according to your logic, Podsednik was on base 300 times or so.

no 200 or so times. Not always Pods though. Whoever was on 1st Base he moved over.

[TheHammer]

None on and None out for Iguchi means leading off the inning for almost all at-bats. Because we know Pods didn't hit any HRs this year. Basically you proved that Iguchi shouldnt hit first. Agreed!

[timotime]

Iguchi should be the #3 hitter because he is the best All-Around Hitter on this team.  If he was a #3 hitter he could probably hit 30 Home Runs and 100 RBI.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

trust in ozzie

[DABearSoX]

trust in ozzie

 

Good Point, and welcome to Soxtalk

[YASNY]

Iguchi should be the #3 hitter because he is the best All-Around Hitter on this team.  If he was a #3 hitter he could probably hit 30 Home Runs and 100 RBI.

 

You are taking a HUGE leap of faith here. He may have been a number 3 hitter in Japan, but this ain't Japan.