JUAN PIERRE

[Soxpranos]

I dont think you have ever said a single positive thing about him.. I mean, you don't even think he's a good defensive player.  You are likely the only one I have ever talked with that thought that.  Rowand is not the best CF in the game, but he's in the second group of good CF's, as someone said earlier in this thread.  If A-Row's offense would return to 2004, and his defense maintained its high level, he would be one of, if not the, best CF's in the game.

 

And I didn't think that Iguchi would perform like he did in the #2 spot.  I thought he might struggle, but he proved me wrong.  Now that he already has a years of experience in the MLB and in the #2 spot specifically, I think he can improve upon last year's success.

 

Yes , hes in the 2nd tier of defenders. I dont argue with that, he's very solid. But fo the offensive side, maybe this is what it is. See above post, maybe we dont see another season like 2004 on the offensive side, and if we keep him fine with me. We win with him or without him.

[Felix]

The sad think about it, is that Aaron is not a good offensive player. Uribe I believe had more rbi than him or was tied, batting 9th.  Have you ever thought that Aarons 23 homer season was a  fluke and this is the Aaron that he will always be, not the other way around? I will be glad to see this come to a resolution soon, to see what the Sox intend on actually doing.

er.. I didnt say anything about Rowand's offense in that post. I said he was a quality player, there is a huge difference.

 

And yes, perhaps his 2004 season was a fluke, however maybe it wasn't, and even if last year's numbers are a true indicator of his offensive talent, Rowands numbers are better than Pierre's.

 

After 2006, trade Rowand. Brian Anderson will be ready without a doubt, along with a few other prospects which might be ready (Young, Owens). But trading him now, while he's a team leader and great defender, for an arguably worse overall player doesn't sit right with me.

[Felix]

Yes , hes in the 2nd tier of defenders. I dont argue with that, he's very solid. But fo the offensive side, maybe this is what it is. See above post, maybe we dont see another season like 2004 on the offensive side, and if we keep him fine with me. We win with him or without him.

No, he's a top tier defender (ask just about anyone besides yourself), but second tier overall centerfielder. There is a difference.

[WSFAN35]

Pierre and Pods would be a "1-2 punch" that opponents could laugh at.  Neither can hit lefties, and neither are that talented with the bat.  If they do get on, then yes, they can run, but they can also get thrown out a hell of a lot, which is not a good thing to have happen when the meat of your order is coming up.

 

 

Just so you know, Pierre has consistently hit for average against lefties BETTER than righties. I guess opponents laughed at Pierre and Castillo when the Marlins won their last World Series.

[Felix]

Just so you know, Pierre has consistently hit for average against lefties BETTER than righties.  I guess opponents laughed at Pierre and Castillo when the Marlins won their last World Series.

My mistake, I was looking at OPS, not average.

[fathom]

  If A-Row's offense would return to 2004, and his defense maintained its high level, he would be one of, if not the, best CF's in the game.

 

 

I bet there's 2 or 3 players on every team in baseball whose fans think the same way. Stats prior to the 2005 season shouldn't be used when evaluating players, sadly.

[beck72]

I see a #2 hitter who can control his bat to move the leadoff man onwards, while still being able to hit for some power if needed.  I like having Gooch in the two hole, and I think that he would be superior to Pierre hitting there.

 

I guess you must have missed Ozzie's press conference when he was named manager of the year saying he wanted to hit Iguchi down in the lineup. And he wanted a new #2 hitter and more speed. That's where most of this Pierre talk is coming from. Your or my likes and preferences matter little.

 

And Pierre has hit from the #2 hole. Esp in 2003 with Ozzie when they won the WS

[Felix]

And Pierre has hit from the #2 hole. Esp in 2003 with Ozzie when they won the WS

er.. he had 52 AB's out of the #2 hole in 2003, compared to 616 as a leadoff hitter.

[SSH2005]

er.. he had 52 AB's out of the #2 hole in 2003, compared to 616 as a leadoff hitter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Regardless, Ozzie said he wants to add a more speedy #2 hitter and move Iguchi down in the order in more of a RBI producing role. There must be a reason that Ozzie would rather have a guy like Pierre batting second and Iguchi batting lower in the order, right? So it may not matter how much you like Rowand. He could be as good as gone.

[beck72]

er.. he had 52 AB's out of the #2 hole in 2003, compared to 616 as a leadoff hitter.

That's more AB's in the #2 hole than Gooch had coming into 2005

[Soxpranos]

That's more AB's in the #2 hole than Gooch had coming into 2005

[Gene Honda Civic]

That's not my personal opinion.  Pierre strikes out less, he's faster, he steals more bases, and he's a better bunter.  Those are all facts. 

 

Also, Pierre is a left-handed bat so his natural pull swing would be towards the right side of the infield allowing Podsednik to move from second to third with ease.

 

Iguchi wants to hit homeruns.  He also strikes out a lot.  He is more suited to be batting sixth in the lineup.

 

 

Its your personal opinion that Pierre would be better than Iguchi hitting in the #2 hole.  And its mine that I would rather Iguchi there.

This isn't what we should be arguing over.

 

It should be whether the Sox will score more runs by upgrading their #2 position, where they posted a .276/.335/.422 line, or the #3 spot, where they managed just a .234/.296/.419. Only the Bay Area teams had less production from the #3 spot.

 

There are much more pressing needs than "who should bat 2nd?" Kenny knows this. He ain't wasting his time appeasing Ozzie behind the scenes. He's going to do what's best for the club, and that's finding a LHed bat that can get on base and put the ball out of the yard.

[nitetrain8601]

This isn't what we should be arguing over.

 

It should be whether the Sox will score more runs by upgrading their #2 position, where they posted a .276/.335/.422 line, or the #3 spot, where they managed just a .234/.296/.419. Only the Bay Area teams had less production from the #3 spot.

 

There are much more pressing needs than "who should bat 2nd?" Kenny knows this. He ain't wasting his time appeasing Ozzie behind the scenes. He's going to do what's best for the club, and that's finding a LHed bat that can get on base and put the ball out of the yard.

 

And why can't we do both? If Philly is willing to eat enough of Thome's contract, it's certainly doable.

[3E8]

And why can't we do both? If Philly is willing to eat enough of Thome's contract, it's certainly doable.

Because both teams probably want the same players in trades.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Maybe Ozzie wants both Pierre and Rowand.

 

Pierre takes Iguchi's spot at #2 in the lineup and Iguchi takes Carl's #5 spot. All others remain as last year.

 

It's unconventional for sure, as the Sox would not have a DH per se, but would alternate Pods, Pierre and others at DH to keep them all fresh and in the lineup.

 

We lose the clutch RBI's of Carl from last year, but if Iguchi proves to be a viable middle-of-the-order type hitter in the Major Leagues, all works out well.

 

Could this be what Ozzie & KW are thinking?

[chitownsportsfan]

"I bet there's 2 or 3 players on every team in baseball whose fans think the same way. Stats prior to the 2005 season shouldn't be used when evaluating players, sadly."

 

 

Huh? You just argued that only stats from the previous season should be used to evaulate players? That makes no sense at all for a variety of reasons, the most obvious being small sample size. I won't bother to highlight the other deficiences with that way of thinking.

[fathom]

"I bet there's 2 or 3 players on every team in baseball whose fans think the same way. Stats prior to the 2005 season shouldn't be used when evaluating players, sadly."

Huh?  You just argued that only stats from the previous season should be used to evaulate players?  That makes no sense at all for a variety of reasons, the most obvious being small sample size.  I won't bother to highlight the other deficiences with that way of thinking.

 

In the age of steroids, it's too hard to tell who was on the juice and who wasn't. Look how many players went from superstar to league average this season? In past years, there used to be a lot more players who went from league average to superstar. However, with drug testing involved, it's made it a whole new game. I bet the Mariners want to know what happened to Beltre's 50 homer power. I bet the Orioles wish they didn't spend so much more on Javy Lopez now. I put a hell of a lot more stock into how a player performed in 2005 compared to 2004. If you have someone like Pujols or ARod who kept up their great stats from previous seasons, then there's no problem with using their previous stats to evaluate them.

Edited November 21, 2005 by fathom

[worldchampsox05]

Maybe Ozzie wants both Pierre and Rowand.

 

Pierre takes Iguchi's spot at #2 in the lineup and Iguchi takes Carl's #5 spot.  All others remain as last year.

 

It's unconventional for sure, as the Sox would not have a DH per se, but would alternate Pods, Pierre and others at DH to keep them all fresh and in the lineup.

 

We lose the clutch RBI's of Carl from last year, but if Iguchi proves to be a viable middle-of-the-order type hitter in the Major Leagues, all works out well.

 

Could this be what Ozzie & KW are thinking?

 

 

THANK U!! just b/c we might get pierre doesnt mean we hafta get rid of arow

Edited November 21, 2005 by rowandschick33

[fathom]

We lose the clutch RBI's of Carl from last year, but if Iguchi proves to be a viable middle-of-the-order type hitter in the Major Leagues, all works out well.

 

Could this be what Ozzie & KW are thinking?

 

For every clutch hit by Everett, there were also one or two other ABs with RISP where he struck out on a curve in the dirt. He's the last guy I'm worried about replacing on the Sox, to be honest.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

For every clutch hit by Everett, there were also one or two other ABs with RISP where he struck out on a curve in the dirt.  He's the last guy I'm worried about replacing on the Sox, to be honest.

Didn't Carl lead the Sox in BA with RISP? I know he did for most of the season anyway. He also was leading the AL in driving in go-ahead runs for much of the season.

 

But anyway, if Carl's production can easily be replaced by Iguchi in the #5 spot, then maybe Ozzie is planning on batting Pierre #2, and Iguchi #5 while keeping Aarons defense in CF. This is a cheaper option than spending big bucks on a DH, and allows for Frank to remain in the picture should it become necessary. If the Pierre/Pods at DH scenario is not working out and Frank appears healthy by June/July, KW can move one of the OF's at the trade deadline.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

THANK U!! just b/c we might get pierre doesnt mean we hafta get rid of arow

I agree.

 

Having Pierre's speed and Aaron's defense in the lineup at the cost of power from the Dh position seems to have Ozzie written all over it.

 

And saving big bucks on the DH position by not paying a Delgado/Thome/Helton/Giles has JR written all over it.

 

The plan is unconventional to say the least, but thinking outside the box has KW written all over it.

 

BTW, WELCOME TO SOX TALK!

Edited November 21, 2005 by South Side Fireworks Man

[SoxPride56]

hey just my 2 cents:

 

I would love to aquire Pierre, but not if it cost us Aaron. This team is based on defense and pitching, with timely hitting. Having said that, there is no way that Pierre is a better defender then Aaron, offensivly thats debatable who is better. As Hawk said a lot at SoxFest last year "Defense win championships, with pitching being the first line of defense." Basicly I want to have both Juan and Aaron, who would DH, well I dont no but this is probley what I would do

 

Pierre

Pods

Iguchi

Konerko

Dye

Aaron

AJ

Crede

Uribe

 

Once again, that is just my 2 cents

[CWSGuy406]

Pierre

Pods

Iguchi

Konerko

Dye

Aaron

AJ

Crede

Uribe

 

Your 2006, Fourth place finishing, Chicago WHITE SOX!

[sayitaintso]

Your 2006, Fourth place finishing, Chicago WHITE SOX!

They were susposed to finish third or forth this year too, and look how that turned out.

[elrockinMT]

Yes, lets sit down the Worlds Series MVP, that is a very common thought??

 

Who passed out the crack?

 

Good question. Ths is the same type of tripe that was being put out during the regular season calling for the trade of every Sox player for someone of questionable value. Now I think Pierre might be just fine, but why are we talking about trading proven starters from the Sox for injured or one year stat builders? People seem so quick to tear down a winner.