JUAN PIERRE

[Chisoxfn]

Kenny is the type of gm to think outside the box but I highly doubt you see Erstad here.  It does sound like the Angels were planning on moving him back to cf if they signed paul, do you think he can handle cf right now or do you think he'll be back on the dl every two weeks if he's moved back there?

Honestly, I think he's going to get hurt. However, if he didn't get hurt, there is no one else I'd rather have (considering all the options) than Darin Erstad. The guy is a total gamer. He's great on the field (my god can the guy play defense) and he has that rugged, grinder style that Chicago fans endear.

 

Realistically I think he'd be an oustanding fit, I just don't know if his hammies and knees would be able to handle the day to day of it. On the plus side Ozzie gives his guys extra rest so if they took care of him and he stayed healthy.

 

I could see him playing around 140 games (Anderson is going to get starts as the 4th OF) and hitting .285 with a .340-.350 OBP. On top of that 15-20 steals and gold glove caliber defense. The weird part about Darin is that his walk numbers have actually regressed with age and I actually think thats partly because Mickey Hatcher (Angels hitting coach) is a fan of agressive hacks .

 

I say all this because I think the Sox could get Erstad for Marte probably straight up (well maybe Sean Tracey or someone else included). The Angels would love to get Marte and the Sox would have there needs filled in CF. If anything happens to Erstie (I think he's a FA finally at the end of the year, but not positive) than you have Anderson waiting in the wings.

 

Hell Steve Finley is yet another possibility. If the Sox were willing to take in half of his contract they could probably get him for Arnie Munoz (I think the Angels want to move him badly and I still think he ends up in Beantown as a part of a Ramirez deal). Basically the Sox take the risk that he busts up again this year and owe around 4-5 million. If he does pan out than they have themselves a solid 2 hole hitter with some power. I know he strikes out a lot, but at the same time he's one of the best bunters in the league and he's a hard nosed gritty player. He doesn't want to leave the West Coast. Once again if he belly's up than the Sox have Brian Anderson to turn to.

 

These are two different guys on the Angels that I could see fitting. Namely because they could come here at a lower cost (in terms of players given up) and potentially pan out in a big way. If they don't, they are gone at the end of the year and Anderson can step in mid-season or whenever and be the starter the rest of the way (if he isn't, than obviously the Sox would have to try something near the deadline).

 

Personally I wouldn't complain with either move. Both are classy guys and would be very good on the clubhouse. They can both handle the bat and play defense.

[Balta1701]

I don't like the Finley idea for 1 reason...you're paying $3 million or so on a total experiment and just hoping against hope that his numbers somehow improve from last year. I just don't see that as making sense.

 

And on Erstadt...I believe he was moved to 1b just because the Angels didn't have anyone else who could play 1b, if memory serves. But he's getting paid way more than his performance justifies at that spot, and he's certainly not tearing it up with the bat. He might even be a downgrade from Anderson for a lot more money.

[DBAHO]

I know Jason rates Erstad very highly, but I don't want a guy with a .696 OPS (albeit that's probably improve a little at the Cell), anywhere in my lineup.

 

Anderson's a better bet to beat that, plus he's younger and less injury prone.

 

And yeah, I'd deal Munoz and another young pitcher (so long as it ain't a very good prospect) for Pierre. But I also agree with the sentiment that it's probably time to let our young OF's to show what they can do at the Major League Level starting with Anderson.

 

Right now, the Sox just have to ask themselves, whether Juan Uribe is going to be able to handle himself at the #2 hole. If they think they can, then I don't they're gonna deal for Pierre.

 

Of course with Pierre, there's the issue of him just being under our control for 1 season, but I'd trust KW to get something done long - term if that's the path they wanted to take. But then you've got Pods as well (IIRC he's out of contract 2006), so they will probably have to make a choice there, with Owens, Young and Sweeney waiting in the wings.

[SoxFan1]

I still don't see the point of moving Gooch out of the 1 spot. If Ozzie really believes he can produce more at 6 then I will trust him but having Gooc bat 2nd last season did not hurt at all.

[DBAHO]

I still don't see the point of moving Gooch out of the 1 spot. If Ozzie really believes he can produce more at 6 then I will trust him but having Gooc bat 2nd last season did not hurt at all.

Well you've got to look at it from the point of view, that's it's going to increase our power production.

 

Gooch could easily hit 20 HR's down lower in the order, while you're not going to lose much from Uribe moving up in the order, where he showed in 2004 that he had pretty good numbers there.

[SoxFan1]

Well you've got to look at it from the point of view, that's it's going to increase our power production.

 

Gooch could easily hit 20 HR's down lower in the order, while you're not going to lose much from Uribe moving up in the order, where he showed in 2004 that he had pretty good numbers there.

I agree, Uribe was phenomenal batting 2nd in 2004. I dunno, I just really like Gooch batting 2nd. You could almost always count on him to get the guy over or get the guy in. If Uribe can show that he can do that and produce like he normally can...it would be a big plus.

[Balta1701]

I agree, Uribe was phenomenal batting 2nd in 2004. I dunno, I just really like Gooch batting 2nd. You could almost always count on him to get the guy over or get the guy in. If Uribe can show that he can do that and produce like he normally can...it would be a big plus.

I still think Uribe's problem is that he has an absolutely awful swing. Just watch it.

 

When Uribe sets up, he has his feet about 1 foot apart. Albert Pujols has his like 3-4 feet apart. When Uribe swings, he ends up with his feet spread about as far apart as Pujols, which means he thrusts his whole body forward to drive his swing. Pujols drives the ball by shifting the weight between his legs, Uribe drives the ball by shifting his whole body.

 

The difference between these 2 batting styles is that that Pujols's method allows him to keep his eye on the ball longer, because his head stays still while he's shifting his weight, while the Uribe method involves a much longer process of moving both his feet and shifting his weight.

 

2 years ago, Andruw Jones was doing exactly what Uribe is doing - starting off with his feet close together and taking a big stride while shifting his weight. Last year, Jones spread his feet apart, shortened his stride, and suddenly was able to have more time in his swing to focus on the ball.

 

Juan Uribe is where Andruw Jones was 2 years ago. Incredibly strong, but flying open and away from the baseball too often. It's a problem with the way his swing is built. He needs to spread his legs out and let his swing do the work, instead of forcing his legs to go through the swing like he is now.

 

If Greg Walker could convince Uribe to spread his legs out before he hits and shift his weight while keeping his head still (so that he could see the ball better) Greg Walker could turn Uribe into a triple crown contender. Uribe is that strong. He just needs hitting mechanics. When Walker first started working with Uribe in 2004, Uribe spent the first 2 months of the season hitting like .325. He had a terrible June and July, and hit over 300 again in september and october after hitting .289 in July.

 

Uribe could be a great hitter, he just needs to be taught the mechanics of a swing. He had terrible mechanics all last year, which is why pitchers could get him out on the pitch low and away (strikeout) or the pitch up high (Strikeout or popout). Spread Uribe's legs out, teach him to drive the ball while keeping his eye on the ball for a few more moments, like he did in early 2004, and you'll turn him into a monster.

[DBAHO]

Contradicting yesterday's report, the New York Post says the Marlins are still insisting on Robinson Cano from the Yankees in a Juan Pierre deal.

We didn't think Sean Henn and Scott Proctor alone would get it done. Newsday is also saying that the Marlins want Cano. The Yankees aren't enamored with Pierre and likely would only consider him at a bargain price, so a trade appears unlikely. Dec. 3 - 5:04 am et

[beck72]

Willie Harris wouldn't be a bad fit for the Marlins. Few teams are going to be giving up position players who can play right away.

 

With what the Marlins got for Castillo--locked up for 2, possibly 3 yrs--Pierre's price shouldn't be high

[DBAHO]

Willie Harris wouldn't be a bad fit for the Marlins. Few teams are going to be giving up position players who can play right away.

 

With what the Marlins got for Castillo--locked up for 2, possibly 3 yrs--Pierre's price shouldn't be high

Munoz and Harris for Pierre. I'm sure we'd do that in a second, but Florida shouldn't, but hey after what they got for Castillo, you never know.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I have finally come around on Pierre. I like the idea of 130 steals in the first two spots. Lets go get him

[JUGGERNAUT]

From what I've read there are two reasons why Iguchi is being moved out of the #2 spot:

1) His speed was not as advertised. Like Castillo of the Marlins he lost the zip. Neither of these guys are 30 SB guys any more.

 

2) Ozzie knows he took the bat out of Iguchi's hand many times last season. He's confident that if Iguchi is allowed to be a hitter in those ab's he's going to be produce better numbers.

 

There's all this talk about Pierre & Pods becoming FA but so what? What's the most you are likely to pay for slap hitters who can steal 50+ SB a year? You do not have to pay for power or rbi's from these guys. The #2 guy will still be curbed by the priority of moving Pods into SP.

 

On the flip-side if Pierre does find a power stroke at the Cell then wouldn't a guy with that speed & that power be worth keeping for the White Sox? I think so.

[YASNY]

From what I've read there are two reasons why Iguchi is being moved out of the #2 spot:

1) His speed was not as advertised.  Like Castillo of the Marlins he lost the zip.  Neither of these guys are 30 SB guys any more. 

 

2) Ozzie knows he took the bat out of Iguchi's hand many times last season.  He's confident that if Iguchi is allowed to be a hitter in those ab's he's going to be produce better numbers.

 

There's all this talk about Pierre & Pods becoming FA but so what?  What's the most you are likely to pay for slap hitters who can steal 50+ SB a year?  You do not have to pay for power or rbi's from these guys.  The #2 guy will still be curbed by the priority of moving Pods into SP. 

 

On the flip-side if Pierre does find a power stroke at the Cell then wouldn't a guy with that speed & that power be worth keeping for the White Sox?  I think so.

 

See Furcal.

[knightni]

If Pierre goes to the Sox.. imagine Hendry with egg on his face after losing Castillo, Pierre AND Furcal. hehehhe

[Balta1701]

There are reportedly something like 10+ teams that have expressed interest in Pierre, so it won't necessarily take him going to the Sox to have the Cubs look bad.

 

The Cubs want him, they'll have to overpay. Any team wants him, they'll have to overpay, because with that many teams involved, someone will.

[timotime]

There are reportedly something like 10+ teams that have expressed interest in Pierre, so it won't necessarily take him going to the Sox to have the Cubs look bad.

 

The Cubs want him, they'll have to overpay.  Any team wants him, they'll have to overpay, because with that many teams involved, someone will.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

exactly why i dont think we will be getting pierre. KW has faith in the kid (anderson), and with our salary basically set, i dont see us overpaying (and it will be a gross overpayment, in my opinion, no matter who gets him).

[spataro51]

i want pierre but as long as he doesn't go to the twins, tribe, or the cubs i will be satisfied.

[toasty]

put 'em on the scrubs, i dont care as long as he stays away from us and the rest of the AL central

[SSH2005]

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/ds.../pro/053sd3.htm

Whether it be a shortstop or an outfielder, the Cubs are still seeking a quality leadoff man. They likely will try to outbid the White Sox and a few other teams in a trade for center fielder Juan Pierre of Florida, which has been dealing away its high-priced talent.

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/ds.../pro/041sd3.htm

The White Sox are expected to look for outfield help, too. The Sox did plenty of heavy work before the meetings by re-signing free-agent first baseman Paul Konerko and trading for slugger Jim Thome. And although their outfield appears set with Scott Podsednik, Jermaine Dye and rookie Brian Anderson as the current favorites to start, the Sox might be pursuing Florida's Pierre in a trade.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...rlins_1205.html

The Marlins have rid themselves of more than $90 million in contracts in the fire sale and could save more if center fielder Juan Pierre is moved, as expected. The Cubs, Yankees and White Sox are interested in Pierre, who could make about $5 million in arbitration.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox04.html

Williams remains confident in Anderson.

 

''Brian Anderson is a natural center fielder; he has been a center fielder all his life,'' Williams said. ''You will see just how good he is out there for yourself.''

 

Still, there's enough uncertainty that Williams is expected to keep an ear close to conversations concerning Florida Marlins center fielder Juan Pierre, who is expected to be one of the hottest names on the trade market. Though Pierre has a weak arm, he would fit nicely into the No. 2 spot in the Sox' lineup.

Edited December 5, 2005 by SSH2005

[wilmot825]

I keep hearing on tv, reading in the paper, and reading the interent reports that the Sox are the team in most interest in Juan Pierre. What are the chances of Juan coming to the Sox? If this is all true, why is Kenny being so "low key" about it? But I do say, that would be a fearful line-up of Pods, Pierre, Thome, Paulie, Dye, A.J., Tad, Crede, Uribe.

[SoxFan1]

I keep hearing on tv, reading in the paper, and reading the interent reports that the Sox are the team in most interest in Juan Pierre. What are the chances of Juan coming to the Sox? If this is all true, why is Kenny being so "low key" about it? But I do say, that would be a fearful line-up of Pods, Pierre, Thome, Paulie, Dye, A.J., Tad, Crede, Uribe.

Someone's on top of the rumors...

[thedoctor]

i tend to doubt the sox will be involved in the pierre sweepstakes, primarily because i think the yankees and the cubs could get involved in a bidding war for his services. both teams are desperate and could be willing to overpay.

 

given the option of overpaying for pierre (bmac or any other top prospect) or going into next year with anderson, i'd take anderson.

 

the only odd thing is that whole sean henn and scott proctor offer that the marlins supposedly did not turn down. i'd think someone could do better than that.

[bjm676]

Aren't Juan Pierre and Scott Podsednik basically the same player? The only difference being Pierre gets more triples.

 

I see no reason why the Sox need to get Pierre.

[VenomSox]

Jason Stark said the 3 most aggressive teams in the Pierre hunt are Rangers, Cubs, and White Sox.

Rangers- John Danks or Thomas Diamond

Cubs- Felix Pie

Sox- McCarthy or Chris Young

[TLAK]

Jason Stark said the 3 most aggressive teams in the Pierre hunt are Rangers, Cubs, and White Sox.

Rangers- John Danks or Thomas Diamond

Cubs- Felix Pie

Sox- McCarthy or Chris Young

I do not believe for a second that McCarthy is being offered for anything.