RockRaines Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 16, 2005 -> 05:39 PM) According to this logic, the White Sox should have never traded for Jose Contreras, should have never signed AJ Pierzynski, and it also makes the Carlos Lee trade one of the worst in recent history. Pierre is coming off a down year offensively, and is a FA after the '06 season IIRC, meaning his value is at an all-time low. You bring him in for a solid, but not spectacular pitcher(I could see perhaps a package of simply Marte and Harris working for Pierre, to be quite honest...in fact, I almost view that as overpriced, but it's doable. Obviously, you would not make just that trade without trading Rowand, because by trading for Pierre, you then really kill any value Rowand had...or perhaps you increase it, with multiple teams going after him knowing he is available). When the guy is right, he's a .310 hitter, putting up 40 XBHs a year, getting on at a .375 clip, and stealing 50-70 bases(though not always at the standard 75% productive rate). I'm also not sure where you get this bad defensive play. His talent alone lets him catch up to balls he misreads, and while he has a noodle arm, a good arm is not a necessity out of a CFer. You just want excellent range, something Pierre does have. Personally...I'd love Pierre in Chicago. I'd hate to see Rowand go, because I love the guy, but by bringing in Pierre, you are satisfying Ozzie's thirst for more speed. You can then look to build Rowand up as a good hitter with solid power with just great defense all-around, and you either get a hell of a good package for him, or you use him as a bigger part of a package for another hitter. You then look to resign PK and go from there. Pierre has no place on this team. Offensive prodcution goes down, and defensive liabilities go up. Not only that but our payroll goes up essentially from adding Scott Podsednik part 2. Im glad that KW wouldnt think along these lines, because we would SUCK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 16, 2005 -> 04:51 PM) Pierre has no place on this team. Offensive prodcution goes down, and defensive liabilities go up. Not only that but our payroll goes up essentially from adding Scott Podsednik part 2. Im glad that KW wouldnt think along these lines, because we would SUCK. Atta' boy, Rock. My man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 16, 2005 -> 04:51 PM) Pierre has no place on this team. Offensive prodcution goes down, and defensive liabilities go up. Not only that but our payroll goes up essentially from adding Scott Podsednik part 2. Im glad that KW wouldnt think along these lines, because we would SUCK. I think everyone agrees as the current team is concocted, he has no place on the team. The argument on whether or not the guy is a bum like you and some others are making him out to be. It's not like the guy came back from 2 broken legs and is turning 43 in December. He had one bad year. Big whoop. It's a bad logic to think that someone is done after having one bad year. I'm glad K-Dub doesn't think along your lines, because in that case we would SUCK EVEN MORE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 16, 2005 -> 06:03 PM) I think everyone agrees as the current team is concocted, he has no place on the team. The argument on whether or not the guy is a bum like you and some others are making him out to be. It's not like the guy came back from 2 broken legs and is turning 43 in December. He had one bad year. Big whoop. It's a bad logic to think that someone is done after having one bad year. I'm glad K-Dub doesn't think along your lines, because in that case we would SUCK EVEN MORE! I guess imitation is the highest form of flattery. Serious though, when did I say he was a bum? He is Scotty Pods, with a higher salary. A salary that would take away possible options for upgrading at positions where we actually need upgrades. This is making a move to make a move, and we need to address our needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 The only way you can entertain Pierre in CF is if you have a 3,4,5 of Dye, Thome, Konerko. That being said, we are an OF factory here. We have more OF prospects that we can seem to know what to do with. This is our position of strength. Rowand could be moved. But IMO it will be as a package deal with Marte for a left handed thumper to DH. Brian Anderson will step into he CF role and we will move on. I dont see why we would trade for an OF when we seem to have the patent on turning out great fielding OF prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 In fact, I will assume that we are putting Pierre in the place of A-row. Pierre .305 .355 .375 A-row .283 .337 .451 So you are gaining a little more time on base, but losing a bunch of power and run producing. Also you are losing some fielding prowess and losing payroll flexibility. IMO the pluses for A-row far outweigh the pluses for JP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 16, 2005 -> 05:10 PM) The only way you can entertain Pierre in CF is if you have a 3,4,5 of Dye, Thome, Konerko. That being said, we are an OF factory here. We have more OF prospects that we can seem to know what to do with. This is our position of strength. Rowand could be moved. But IMO it will be as a package deal with Marte for a left handed thumper to DH. Brian Anderson will step into he CF role and we will move on. I dont see why we would trade for an OF when we seem to have the patent on turning out great fielding OF prospects. I agree with that. I also think that we need more power and a 3,4,5 of Dye, Thome & Konerko would allow us to have a Pierre in CF, but there would be no point since we have OFers up the ass in our system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 I'm not totally against trading Rowand... but it should be for a hell of alot more then just Juan Pierre... Or a pitching prospect... Unless it's a power bat that comes out of him then it's just not worth it... So IMO you can only package Rowand in a deal for either Thome or Delgado... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 16, 2005 -> 05:11 PM) In fact, I will assume that we are putting Pierre in the place of A-row. Pierre .305 .355 .375 A-row .283 .337 .451 So you are gaining a little more time on base, but losing a bunch of power and run producing. Also you are losing some fielding prowess and losing payroll flexibility. IMO the pluses for A-row far outweigh the pluses for JP. Pierre would be replacing Iguchi at #2 in the lineup, and his OB and speed ability help the team more in that spot than Goochi's mediocre speed and mediocre OB would. Goochi than moves down in the lineup, replacing Rowand's mediocre production from this year. Having thought about it a little bit, and realizing Pierre is making $6 mill instead of the 4-5 I thought he was making, I am obviously a little less in favor of it. That still doesn't change the fact that I think he would make this team better, rather than worse, and it doesn't change the fact that I would love to see him on the Sox...just not at $6 mill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Nov 16, 2005 -> 03:33 PM) Ozzie makes the proclamation he wants a new #2 hitter. Did he have Pierre in mind? Pierre might be growing to big for the Marlin's purse-strings. What would it take to pry him from the Marlins? What will it take to sign him to a multi-year? A Pierre move would send Dye to either 1B or DH depending on whether Kong resigns. Dye had DH does not exclude the possibility of re-signing Thomas for DH. Dye could play DH, backup 1B, & backup RF. With the way Ozzie likes to use his bench Dye would still see 400 AB's in such a role. Pass. Pierre has been in decline. ANd having 2 no arms in the outfield can't be very good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 QUOTE(JoshPR @ Nov 16, 2005 -> 11:56 PM) Pass. Pierre has been in decline. ANd having 2 no arms in the outfield can't be very good Has been on a decline would mean there are multiple season of numbers decreasing wouldn't it? I hope pierre hits .350 next year... with the cubs or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Nov 17, 2005 -> 12:01 AM) Has been on a decline would mean there are multiple season of numbers decreasing wouldn't it? I hope pierre hits .350 next year... with the cubs or not. Just to back this up... Pierre... 2003 - .305 1 HR 65 SBs(20 CS) .361/.373/.734 2004 - .326 3 HR 45 SBs(24 CS) .374/.407/.781 2005 - .276 2 HR 57 SBs(17 CS) .326/.354/.680 I see mixed results, personally. A good 2003, a great 2004, and a mediocre 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 Pass. Pierre has been in decline. ANd having 2 no arms in the outfield can't be very good <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We already had 2 bad arms in the outfield this past season -- Podsednik's and Rowand's. Dye had a strong arm but he wasn't accurate with it. Has been on a decline would mean there are multiple season of numbers decreasing wouldn't it? I hope pierre hits .350 next year... with the cubs or not. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Didn't you know that having one bad season means you are on the decline? I wonder what it means when you only have one really good season and then a really horrible one to follow it up like Rowand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 We dont need another Pods. I dont understand how hard this is to comprehend. He makes more money than Scotty, and wasnt as good last year. If you want him in center, forget it, I would rather have A-row AND Anderson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 We dont need another Pods. I dont understand how hard this is to comprehend. He makes more money than Scotty, and wasnt as good last year. If you want him in center, forget it, I would rather have A-row AND Anderson. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wouldn't mind having Pierre in center field and having two speedsters at the top of the order. Iguchi could then move down in the order. But Pierre will make way too much money next year and will be a free agent after the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 17, 2005 -> 04:03 PM) I wouldn't mind having Pierre in center field and having two speedsters at the top of the order. Iguchi could then move down in the order. But Pierre will make way too much money next year and will be a free agent after the season. This is exactly how I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 If only it was Castillo we were interested in. I wouldnt mind dumping Tadahito a bit if we could get Castillo over at 2B..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthSide2004 Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Nov 17, 2005 -> 10:07 PM) If only it was Castillo we were interested in. I wouldnt mind dumping Tadahito a bit if we could get Castillo over at 2B..... What's with all the Iguchi hate on this message board. Without him at second (or with Willie Harris at second) I really don't think we would have had nearly the same success as we did last season. The guy sacraficed his stats in a big way last year by batting in front of Podsednik. At 2.4 million, you will not even come close to finding an all-around second baseman like Tadahito. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timotime Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 If only it was Castillo we were interested in. I wouldnt mind dumping Tadahito a bit if we could get Castillo over at 2B..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> castillo's good...but you really want to dump iguchi after the year he just had?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 Juan Pierre ... extremely dangerous hitter who'd be highly motivated going into his walk year. I agree he doesn't have much of an arm, but I am not concerned about power because even if Rowand moves in a deal for Pierre, it doesn't mean KW is done. He knows he needs more power, hence the supposed infatuation with Thome. We'll see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 QUOTE(timotime @ Nov 17, 2005 -> 05:44 PM) castillo's good...but you really want to dump iguchi after the year he just had?! I don't want to dump Iguchi. He's only going to get better next season I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan1022 Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 We already had 2 bad arms in the outfield this past season -- Podsednik's and Rowand's. Dye had a strong arm but he wasn't accurate with it. Didn't you know that having one bad season means you are on the decline? I wonder what it means when you only have one really good season and then a really horrible one to follow it up like Rowand. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wait one second...are you trying to say Rowand has a weak arm? you have got to be kidding me. You must have made a typo, or I am reading it wrong because Rowand has a strong arm in the outfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan1022 Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 i just also saw that you said rowand had a horable year... comeon man were is the green at you have got to be kidding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 Juan Pierre ... extremely dangerous hitter who'd be highly motivated going into his walk year. I agree he doesn't have much of an arm, but I am not concerned about power because even if Rowand moves in a deal for Pierre, it doesn't mean KW is done. He knows he needs more power, hence the supposed infatuation with Thome. We'll see what happens. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree with you on Pierre. I like the idea of having two speedsters at the top of the order but we would need a good power hitter at both first base and DH to make up for such a light hitting outfield of Podsednik and Pierre. Also, Rowand's defense was awesome but it's not like he did much with his arm. I don't see how Pierre's weak arm would be much of a difference from Rowand's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 QUOTE(whitesoxfan1022 @ Nov 18, 2005 -> 03:24 PM) Wait one second...are you trying to say Rowand has a weak arm? you have got to be kidding me. You must have made a typo, or I am reading it wrong because Rowand has a strong arm in the outfield From ESPN - " He has quickened his release and overall his arm is considered adequate." I wouldn't consider adequate to be strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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