Congressman Murtha Calls for Immediate Withdrawal

[YASNY]

I guess... you're acting like an ass lately.

 

You know what. I'm just going to let this go.

[kapkomet]

I guess... you're acting like an ass lately.

Steff, seriously, what's the point of this?

 

This is a passionate issue, and I personally think he's right. Bush can't do ANYTHING without a full assult being made of his every move. The truth of the matter is, this started with the Clinton White House when the Iraq 1998 version was nothing but a "wag-the-dog" scenario... it goes both ways. And then for you to make a comment about this personal against YAS is wrong.

[Steff]

Steff, seriously, what's the point of this?

 

This is a passionate issue, and I personally think he's right.  Bush can't do ANYTHING without a full assult being made of his every move.  The truth of the matter is, this started with the Clinton White House when the Iraq 1998 version was nothing but a "wag-the-dog" scenario... it goes both ways.  And then for you to make a comment about this personal against YAS is wrong.

 

 

You're right kap. Apologies.

[Texsox]

YAS, maybe it is a spiraling of this by both parties, and I know as a country we have long given up on a President acting Presidential. But I stand by my point, no one bothered to attack the statement yesterday, in an all too common reaction, they instead attacked his character and made a nice sound bite about waving a white flag to terrorists. I didn't read a shot at Bush, just a difference in opinion on the course of action in Iraq.

 

During this administration, a CIA operative was outed, two decorated Veterans who ran against Bush were smeared. If you believe that is how our highest levels of government should conduct themselves, then we have different views.

 

Peace, Larry.

[mreye]

Can someone link me to where the White House called Murtha "unpatriotic" or where Bush "talked s***"?

[Rex Kickass]

I agree with the fact that basically the current plan is to draw the "Terrorists" into Iraq and fight them there.  It's all but said.  And to tell you the truth, that's probably what needs to happen, at least in the short order... until they get their army in gear - which is closer to happening then it was 6 months ago by all accounts.

 

Actually, not 100% on this but I thought one of the Generals assigned to train Iraqi forces admitted that there was only one battle ready battalion of iraqi forces capable of fighting independently as of last month. Down from three.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Actually, not 100% on this but I thought one of the Generals assigned to train Iraqi forces admitted that there was only one battle ready battalion of iraqi forces capable of fighting independently as of last month. Down from three.

Yep. And down from the 80-100 fighting Iraqi battalions that GWB keeps throwing around.

 

Here it is from Fred Barnes of Weekly Standard:

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1499005/posts

[southsider2k5]

And we should leave the country right now?

[Rex Kickass]

Can someone link me to where the White House called Murtha "unpatriotic" or where Bush "talked s***"?

 

The GOP leadership did. But that's not the White House.

 

Attacking your policies and "smearing" someone would be two different things. And every President gets the honor of having both happen simultaneously.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Can someone link me to where the White House called Murtha "unpatriotic" or where Bush "talked s***"?

The White House did more than merely calling him unpatriotic.

 

They compared him to (*gasp*) Michael Moore! :o

 

Statement by the Press Secretary

 

Congressman Murtha is a respected veteran and politician who has a record of supporting a strong America. So it is baffling that he is endorsing the policy positions of Michael Moore and the extreme liberal wing of the Democratic party.  The eve of an historic democratic election in Iraq is not the time to surrender to the terrorists. After seeing his statement, we remain baffled -- nowhere does he explain how retreating from Iraq makes America safer.

[kapkomet]

You have to admit, even as people who support the policy of staying the course (because we can't go back now) that this quote is a load of f***ing horses***.

 

Edit - the quote I mean is the White House quote

Edited November 18, 2005 by kapkomet

[Rex Kickass]

I don't think people like Congressman Murtha advocate a cut and run policy. I think its more like a "get our s*** together or leave" policy. And I think that's admirable.

[Mercy!]

Lots of good comments here. I’m thinking that the folks who will have to be dragged kicking and screaming on the Republican side until the last trooper gets helicoptered off a high rise hotel in Bagdad, a la the Saigon embassy – are not the ones to worry about right now. They’re becoming increasingly irrelevant. But they’ll have to come around eventually, probably only when they rewrite the history of their involvement in this abortion. This is now slowly being taken from the administration’s hands. How weak do they want to be perceived before they get out in front of the parade on this? Sorry if I mixed my metaphors.

 

Right now, it needs to start with every timid Democrat in Congress getting behind Rep. Murtha’s broad shoulders – he provides pro-military cover in spades. While this embarrassment of an administration has been talking only to itself in “Town Hall Meetings,” the rest of the country has been looking for someone like Murtha to step forward and be a real leader.

[Texsox]

Murtha 2008?

 

McCain - Murtha 2008?

 

McCain + Conservative Dem = Dream Ticket

 

Politically, I believe the GOP wants this settled before the presidential primaries. This is not the issue that will help them. We could also see some Dems dragging their feet, hoping for an "issue".

[kapkomet]

Lots of good comments here.  I’m thinking that the folks who will have to be dragged kicking and screaming on the Republican side until the last trooper gets helicoptered off a high rise hotel in Bagdad, a la the Saigon embassy – are not the ones to worry about right now.  They’re becoming increasingly irrelevant.  But they’ll have to come around eventually, probably only when they rewrite the history of their involvement in this abortion. This is now slowly being taken from the administration’s hands.  How weak do they want to be perceived before they get out in front of the parade on this?  Sorry if I mixed my metaphors.

 

Right now, it needs to start with every timid Democrat in Congress getting behind Rep. Murtha’s broad shoulders – he provides pro-military cover in spades.  While this embarrassment of an administration has been talking only to itself in “Town Hall Meetings,” the rest of the country has been looking for someone like Murtha to step forward and be a real leader.

There's part of your post that I agree 100% with, and that's the Democrats looking for a real leader, who will stand up and say and do the right things. Rep. Murtha, by far, said more things right representing the opposing point of view. By that, he was respectful, and didn't appear to be politically motivated (well, they all are politically motivated). This wasn't a guy saying "I'm against George Bush". This was a guy that said "I'm against the policy on Iraq"... who can back up the talk. That's a first IMO.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Yep.  And down from the 80-100 fighting Iraqi battalions that GWB keeps throwing around.

 

Here it is from Fred Barnes of Weekly Standard:

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1499005/posts

 

It's important to throw this out here for clarification. The "one battalion" is referring to a single 100% autonomous battalion. But there are over 100 Iraqi military and police battalions who are fighting alongside non-Iraqi coalition troops or with US militarry embedded within them.

 

So on that score, the numbers are not as bleak as has been reported,

 

From the Barnes piece:

 

But what about that single "battle-ready" battalion of Iraqis? Bush didn't broach the subject, but the man in charge of training Iraqi soldiers, Gen. David Petraeus, did. Speaking at the Pentagon the day before Bush's speech, Petraeus cleared up the troop numbers, but only after weeks of confusion. He got minimal media coverage. "There are now over 197,000 trained and equipped Iraqi security forces," he said. And "there are over 115 police and army combat battalions in the fight."

 

The mixup came over the four categories that measure the level of independence of Iraqi forces. About 80 battalions "are assessed as fighting alongside our forces," Petraeus said. Bush got that right. They belong to category three. Only one battalion needs "no coalition assistance whatsoever--i.e., fully independent." That's category one. A "substantial number" of another 35 "have their own areas of operation," but fight with American soldiers embedded in their units. These "allow coalition units to focus elsewhere or eventually to go home." They comprise category two. So Iraqi battalions rated one, two, and three add up to roughly 115 "battle-ready" units--not one. Category four troops aren't ready for combat.

[FlaSoxxJim]

What an outrageous dirty trick the Republican-controlled Congress just tried to play forcing a vote on the "Murtha" resolution (cough *bulls**** cough). They came in with an arrogant 'you want a vote? OK, we'll give you a vote.' attitude and then did an unbelievable bait and switch with a rewrite of the resolution.

 

Here's the text of Murtha's actual resolution:

 

Whereas Congress and the American People have not been shown clear, measurable progress toward establishment of stable and improving security in Iraq or of a stable and improving economy in Iraq, both of which are essential to "promote the emergence of a democratic government";

 

Whereas additional stabilization in Iraq by U, S. military forces cannot be achieved without the deployment of hundreds of thousands of additional U S. troops, which in turn cannot be achieved without a military draft;

 

Whereas more than $277 billion has been appropriated by the United States Congress to prosecute U.S. military action in Iraq and Afghanistan;

 

Whereas, as of the drafting of this resolution, 2,079 U.S. troops have been killed in Operation Iraqi Freedom;

 

Whereas U.S. forces have become the target of the insurgency,

 

Whereas, according to recent polls, over 80% of the Iraqi people want U.S. forces out of Iraq;

 

Whereas polls also indicate that 45% of the Iraqi people feel that the attacks on U.S. forces are justified;

 

Whereas, due to the foregoing, Congress finds it evident that continuing U.S. military action in Iraq is not in the best interests of the United States of America, the people of Iraq, or the Persian Gulf Region, which were cited in Public Law 107-243 as justification for undertaking such action;

 

Therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That:

 

Section 1. The deployment of United States forces in Iraq, by direction of Congress, is hereby terminated and the forces involved are to be redeployed at the earliest practicable date.

 

Section 2. A quick-reaction U.S. force and an over-the-horizon presence of U.S Marines shall be deployed in the region.

 

Section 3 The United States of America shall pursue security and stability in Iraq through diplomacy.

 

 

And now here's the GOP "rewrite" that actually went to a floor vote. See if you can spot the difference:

 

RESOLUTION

Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that

the deployment of United States forces in Iraq be terminated immediately.

 

Resolved, That it is the sense of the House of Representatives that the deployment of United States forces

in Iraq be terminated immediately.

 

What the f***? Murtha gives reason after reason after reason to pursue a redeployment within a reasonable yet rapid time period, and includes provisions to guarantee some military presence still exists in the area and diplomacy be pursued where military occupation has not. And in a move of sopreme arrogance because they control procedure, the pubes substitute two sentances of bulls*** and put it to a vote.

 

The Dems, outraged as they should be, all chose to vote 'present' in the charade so that this fiasco goes on record for what it was.

 

unf***ingbelievable.

[FlaSoxxJim]

The pubes keep referring to their sham resolution as the "Democrat resolution" as well, even though it bears no resemblance to what Murtha actually put forward.

 

f***ing assholes.

Edited November 18, 2005 by FlaSoxxJim

[kapkomet]

This is pretty shady. I'll have to listen to Hannity on the way in to Dallas to see if he's whooping it up as "the best thing Congress could have done". If he does, I'll never listen again. "That's my solemn oath". Well, that and they have the best traffic reports on the station he's on (my REAL motivation, seriously).

 

I am very curious, though, to see if he calls bull s*** on this. Boy, they mobilized around this one pretty quickly, didn't they? It's almost like they were waiting for it.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Sounds like the Dems are holding their own and actually gettting a chance to debate the war in and around this sham procedural vote.

 

Tierney and especially McGovern are saying the right things - denouncing the GOP version of the "Democrat resolution" and pretty much making this stunt blow up in the GOPers faces.

 

I hope C-Span replayes this in its entirety so I can see it all.

[Steff]

It's gonna get - even more - ugly...

[kapkomet]

Sounds like the Dems are holding their own and actually gettting a chance to debate the war in and around this sham procedural vote.

 

Tierney and especially McGovern are saying the right things - denouncing the GOP version of the "Democrat resolution" and pretty much making this stunt blow up in the GOPers faces.

 

I hope C-Span replayes this in its entirety so I can see it all.

If they do, Jim, post when it's on, because I'm curious about this.

 

It is pretty low.

[Steff]

  The pubes keep referring to their sham resolution as the "Democrat resolution" as well, even though it bears no resemblance to what Murtha actually put forward.

 

f***ing assholes.

 

 

 

[kapkomet]

See? Even conservative me can call "bull s***" when I see it. You all should be proud of me.

 

Just skiddin'.

[Rex Kickass]

It's s*** like this that majorities pay for in the long run.

 

And sadly, our country will too.