Blockbuster Move -- Boston & Florida

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Nov 21, 2005 -> 06:06 PM)

LOL, what does your Marlins intern buddy have to say about this?  Doesnt sound like your typical Miami Post retraction now, does it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. I emailed him and am waiting for his response.

 

In the meantime, i'm celebrating or atleast planning to when it becomes official.

[knightni]

Planning lots of DTDs and 15 day DLs for blister and arm problems?

[BlackBetsy]

This trade is an absolute joke....two major league players for 3 Gammons-hyped Red Sox prospects.

 

Who was the last hot Red Sox prospect? Whatever happened to that Freddy Sanchez guy?

 

Gammons is on the payroll hyping these guys 24/7 and the Marlins swallow the bait hard.

 

Hard not to see Boston winning 100 games next year with:

 

Schilling-Beckett-Wells-Clement-Wakefield. Arroyo can be a long man.

 

Plus, Lowell just had 1 down year. Plexiglass principle says he'll bounce back and go .270/.360/.490 with the Red Sox and play gold glove defense. Ugh.

 

Your 2006 World Champion Red Sox.

[Rowand44]

This trade is an absolute joke....two major league players for 3 Gammons-hyped Red Sox prospects.

 

Who was the last hot Red Sox prospect?  Whatever happened to that Freddy Sanchez guy?

 

Gammons is on the payroll hyping these guys 24/7 and the Marlins swallow the bait hard.

 

Hard not to see Boston winning 100 games next year with:

 

Schilling-Beckett-Wells-Clement-Wakefield.  Arroyo can be a long man.

 

Plus, Lowell just had 1 down year.  Plexiglass principle says he'll bounce back and go .270/.360/.490 with the Red Sox and play gold glove defense.  Ugh.

 

Your 2006 World Champion Red Sox.

Woah, talk about an overreaction. Their rotation still isn't very good and their bullpen is still awful. Schilling isn't the same, he's done imo. Beckett while very solid when healthy has still never pitched 200 innings in his career, you can't just pencil him in for a whole year. Wells is average at best right now and will probably end up back on the Padres or some where on the west coast. Clement had an era of around 6 in the 2nd half last year and 21 in the alds . Wakefield is and probably will be again their most consistant starting pitcher. That team is far from a world series team imo.

[BlackBetsy]

Woah, talk about an overreaction.  Their rotation still isn't very good and their bullpen is still awful.  Schilling isn't the same, he's done imo.  Beckett while very solid when healthy has still never pitched 200 innings in his career, you can't just pencil him in for a whole year.  Wells is average at best right now and will probably end up back on the Padres or  some where on the west coast.  Clement had an era of around 6 in the 2nd half last year and 21 in the alds .  Wakefield is and probably will be again their most consistant starting pitcher.  That team is far from a world series team imo.

All of this might be true if they had the White Sox offense of 2005. Instead, they'll still have the Red Sox offense, which makes this team unbelievable. Remember, they still won 95 games with their s***ty pitching this year. A healthy Schilling, a healthy Foukle and Beckett are worth at least 5 extra games in the standings, if not 10 games.

 

I see the Yankees' first place reign in the AL East ending.

[Rowand44]

All of this might be true if they had the White Sox offense of 2005.  Instead, they'll still have the Red Sox offense, which makes this team unbelievable.  Remember, they still won 95 games with their s***ty pitching this year.  A healthy Schilling, a healthy Foukle and Beckett are worth at least 5 extra games in the standings, if not 10 games.

 

I see the Yankees' first place reign in the AL East ending.

Johnny Damon might be gone, don't forget how important he was to them. Now, I wasn't talking about the AL East, they can win that, though it's still very early in the offseason. IMO, they're still a one and out team in the playoffs, that pitching still won't get them anywhere in the playoffs.

[Rowand44]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but BB remember the Pro is a big time pitchers park. Beckett had a 2.47 era at home last year and a 4.31 era on the road. Going to fenway plus the american league is going to give that era a pretty substantial jump.

[BlackBetsy]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but BB remember the Pro is a big time pitchers park.  Beckett had a 2.47 era at home last year and a 4.31 era on the road.  Going to fenway plus the american league is going to give that era a pretty substantial jump.

PP is definitely a pitcher's park, no doubt. But it's not 2 runs better of a pitcher's park, and that 2005 split has a small sample size problem. His career split is 3.13/3.85, which is a little more representative.

 

I think Beckett is probably a guy who puts up a 3.70 ERA next year. With the Red Sox lineup, that's good enough for 17-20 wins if he starts 32 games.

 

Remember, he's 25 this year, meaning that he'll hit his peak for Boston in the next 4 years. Expect big things.

 

Add in the fact that Lowell will bounce back, and this is a 5-10 win deal for the Red Sox, even if they have to replace Damon. Nixon is probably going to bounce back next year, so that will help their production anyway.

 

On paper (and thank God games are not played on paper), the Red Sox team looks like it will cruise to 100-105 wins. Then they can throw out Beckett, Schilling, Wells and Clement in a short series. Yikes.

[BlackBetsy]

Let me also add what Jon Sickels says about Hanley Ramirez, the #1 prospect of the Red Sox in this deal:

 

1) Hanley Ramirez, SS

    Hit .271/.335/.385 with 26 steals (but 13 caught stealing) for Double-A Portland. Not a very impressive season overall. Best news is that he is still just 21 years old, but at some point the performance needs to match the hype.

 

.271/.335/.385 in DOUBLE A, and they trade Beckett for him? That's Peter Gammons hype for you.

 

Anibel Sanchez is a better prospect. Here's Sickels again:

 

4) Anibal Sanchez, RHP

    Confirmed status as top prospect, pitching well in the Carolina League and in Double-A. Portland numbers: 3-5, but 3.45 in 11 starts, 63/16 K/BB in 57 innings. I'd be leery of pushing him too quickly and wouldn't want to see him in the majors before August.

[RockRaines]

I agree.  I emailed him and am waiting for his response.

 

In the meantime, i'm celebrating or atleast planning to when it becomes official.

Great trade for the RS if you ask me. Although, what happened to Hanley being untouchable? Do you think that was just Theo's opinion?

[Balta1701]

Great trade for the RS if you ask me.  Although, what happened to Hanley being untouchable?  Do you think that was just Theo's opinion?

I think it was some combination of the signing of Renteria, the poor season by Ramirez, and the talk about his "work ethic" that removed that tag. Remember, the guy was one of the top couple prospects listed by BA last year...he's fallen pretty far pretty fast.

[ZoomSlowik]

The trade is nothing but a salary dump, that is pretty clear. Their goal definitely appears to be to save as much money as possible in this case. If their goal was to cut salary and stay competitive, they would have taken Blalock and the prospect instead.

 

That said, let's not put Boston in the World Series just yet. As big as the names are in their rotation, there are still a lot of "ifs" involved for them to have a quality rotation. Beckett needs to pitch like he did last year, only for a full season. Schilling needs to get somewhere close to his old self, something he showed very few signs of doing. Everytime I watched him pitch, he was throwing everything between 88 and 93 with little movement. That's not going to get him another sub-3.50 ERA and 20 wins. Clement has to actually be a credible pitcher in the second half, something he hasn't really done. He has flashes of being good in the first half, but starts to collapse right around the All-Star break. Wakefield has to keep fooling people with his slow crap, and Arroyo has to show some signs of developing. If everything goes right for them, they'll have a pretty good rotation. If some things break their way but not others, it'll be pretty much like last year.

 

Plus they obviously still need to resolve some issues with their bullpen, which was just abysmal for most of last year. Even assuming that Papelbon is solid and Foulke comes back at 100%, they'll need at least one more solid arm. Their offense is in a position to potentially take a bit of a slide too. There's still the Manny issues to work out. If he's dealt, that's a severe blow to the offense which can't be remedied. However unlikely that is, it could still be something to worry about if he becomes a major pain in the ass. Another serious blow could come if Damon leaves. They simply don't have a replacement leadoff hitter, and those are pretty hard to find. Their offense loses some of its oomph if guys aren't on base when Ortiz and Manny come up. There are also some lesser issues in the offense. Mueller was a guy who consistently got on base and was a pretty solid bottom of the order hitter. Unless Lowell turns it around, they won't have that anymore. They also still have a pretty big hole at 1B, which is going to be difficult to fill. 2B is also somewhat of an issue. Graffanino probably isn't an everyday player, and I'd bet that last year was a fluke. If their 7-8-9 hitters aren't getting on, that hurts their offensive balance a lot. They'd still be one of the top offenses, but it'd be a little tougher for them to win games without at least decent pitching. As good as they are, Manny and Ortiz can't win every game for you.

 

They appear to be a near lock for a mid-90's win total right now, which has pretty much been the case for the last couple of years. As of right now, their offense is still a monster, and they'll still be one of the better lineups unless Manny actually gets his wish. However, there are still question marks in their bullpen and in the rotation. Unless things break right for them or they make another significant addition, that will probably keep them from winning 100, or from advancing past the ALCS.

Edited November 22, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[3E8]

Has this trade officially gone through? I heard the Dodgers were willing to offer Guzman and Billingsley which is > than Ramierez and Sanchez. If they are at all able to back out, they should.

[ZoomSlowik]

Has this trade officially gone through?  I heard the Dodgers were willing to offer Guzman and Billingsley which is > than Ramierez and Sanchez.  If they are at all able to back out, they should.

 

I've heard that it's been accepted pending physicals, so I guess technically it hasn't gone through yet.

[SSH2005]

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view...rticleid=113896

 

Deal down to the wire: Sox pore over Beckett med reports

A deal is still more likely than not, but the trade of starter Josh Beckett and third baseman Mike Lowell from the Marlins to the Red Sox in exchange for three prospects was still in the process of being finalized last night.

 

A 6 p.m. deadline tonight looms as the cut-off time for the 72-hour window the teams agreed upon when the deal was first tentatively struck on Monday. Since then, the Red Sox have been poring over Beckett’s medical records, focusing on the shoulder stiffness and tendinitis problem he experienced in September that led to a pair of MRIs in October.

 

The well-known blister problems on Beckett’s right middle finger that have landed him on the disabled list six times in his career are not thought to be an issue at this time.

 

The Red Sox still had enough unanswered questions about Beckett, according to a baseball source, that the proposed deal could not be consummated yesterday.

[Chisoxfn]

Well this is strange. The Fish turned down a better offer by the Dodgers because they thought this deal was done.

 

Joel Guzman alone makes the deal greater, but I happen to think Billingsley is a damn good pitching prospect to go on top of it.

 

Joel Guzman is so much better than Hanley Ramirez (as a prospect) its not even funny. If the BoSox stall, than Florida may get an even better deal (assuming Ned Colletti is still willing to offer it).

[redandwhite]

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article...t=.jsp&c_id=mlb

 

The Sox also added third baseman Mike Lowell and right-handed reliever Guillermo Mota in the deal while sending four Minor League prospects -- shortstop Hanley Ramirez and three right-handed pitchers (Anibal Sanchez, Jesus Delgado and Harvey Garcia) -- to the Marlins.

 

So Mota was added to the deal for Garcia. I like this trade a whole lot, wow.

[Buehrle>Wood]

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article...t=.jsp&c_id=mlb

So Mota was added to the deal for Garcia.  I like this trade a whole lot, wow.

The new guy the Red Sox gave up any good?

[Milkman delivers]

Three proven, major league talents for 4 prospects (that are probably highly overrated just because they came from Boston)?

 

f*** you, Marlins.