Rowand44 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 12:51 AM) Bill Mueller is not a second baseman. Is he a butcher there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 12:51 AM) Never said he was a butcher at 3rd but Joe is significantly better. Add that to the fact that Joe has more power and might have found his swing in the playoffs...I'll take me chances with Crede. I'm a big Mueller fan too. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Joe's found his swing in streaks like the one he put on this postseason on a few occassions. I am with southside on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 12:51 AM) Never said he was a butcher at 3rd but Joe is significantly better. Add that to the fact that Joe has more power and might have found his swing in the playoffs...I'll take me chances with Crede. I'm a big Mueller fan too. Credes problem is he is too streaky of a hitter. Thank god that he had a hot streak when he did. Talk about great timing. When he is hot, he looks great. But that is for a week or so. Then of course when he forgets it and gets lost, then he looks terrible. If Joe was more consistant I would have no problems. But his lows are so bad he looks as if he he close his eyes an make better contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 12:52 AM) Is he a butcher there? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He can play the position sparingly, but is in no way a full time second baseman. Whether it's his back or his knees that act up when he plays second, the possibility of playing him at second and Youk at third was mentioned for months while Bellhorn struggled; there's a reason that speculation never came true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 21, 2005 -> 10:52 PM) Is he a butcher there? IIRC he did play there a decent amount of times when he was with the Cubs. I don't remember him looking too bad, but he had that nasty injury while he was over there as well. I think he can figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 12:54 AM) Credes problem is he is too streaky of a hitter. Thank god that he had a hot streak when he did. Talk about great timing. When he is hot, he looks great. But that is for a week or so. Then of course when he forgets it and gets lost, then he looks terrible. If Joe was more consistant I would have no problems. But his lows are so bad he looks as if he he close his eyes an make better contact. You're right, he's always been a streaky hitter, however he was pretty much awesome for 2 straight months to finish off the season which is really he hasn't done all that much. As much as I like Mueller I'd rather have Joe's glove and power as a starting 3rd baseman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 You can't build Championship teams with your heart. Kenny Williams knows that. Bill Mueller will be contacted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 12:58 AM) You're right, he's always been a streaky hitter, however he was pretty much awesome for 2 straight months to finish off the season which is really he hasn't done all that much. As much as I like Mueller I'd rather have Joe's glove and power as a starting 3rd baseman. So you are ok if he has an OBP of .300 or lower, a .240-.250 BA and 20 homers. This is what we should expect, because this is his track record. Would it be nice if it all clicked and he hit .280 and had good bat control. But this is not the player that he is. We need to get some offense on this team. Especially if Kong bolts. We are also still in the same boat with facing righties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 01:00 AM) You can't build Championship teams with your heart. Kenny Williams knows that. Bill Mueller will be contacted. If you're implying that I want to keep Joe cause I like him well your off base, not sure if you're saying that or not though. I could care less what players are on this team as long as they're winners and for the most part good guys or what not. I personally would rather have Joe at 3rd and if Joe's back is healthy I'm sure kenny would too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 bill mueller..... FOR ME TO POOP ON!!!!!!!!!!!! in all seriousness... im joking people... no need to fling durogatory slanders my way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 07:01 AM) So you are ok if he has an OBP of .300 or lower, a .240-.250 BA and 20 homers. This is what we should expect, because this is his track record. Would it be nice if it all clicked and he hit .280 and had good bat control. But this is not the player that he is. uhhh id have to say your dead wrong there buddy.... i dont have any statics to back my statement up... but i mean, come on... there are players in the history of the major leauges who have stuggled offensively for periods of time durring their first couple of years... then they find what they had been lacking and go on to consistantly produce at their previously projected level... im just to lazy to look up examples... if you sit back and think about it for a while, youll find a couple.... maybe konerko for example.... when with the dodgers he didnt produce... when with the reds he didnt produce... when he first came to the sox, he didnt produce... he had one really bad year with the sox... now we're thinking of spending 65 million for him over 5 years.... makes one think and thats just one s***ty example to illustrate my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Or Adrian Beltre. Mediocre and than bam, had what I have dubbed as the greatest single season by a 3rd baseman ever (he was awesome offensively and defensively in a total pitchers park). Of course he came back to earth this year, but I expect big things out of him next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(hi8is @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 01:12 AM) uhhh id have to say your dead wrong there buddy.... i dont have any statics to back my statement up... but i mean, come on... there are players in the history of the major leauges who have stuggled offensively for periods of time durring their first couple of years... then they find what they had been lacking and go on to consistantly produce at their previously projected level... im just to lazy to look up examples... if you sit back and think about it for a while, youll find a couple.... maybe konerko for example.... when with the dodgers he didnt produce... when with the reds he didnt produce... when he first came to the sox, he didnt produce... he had one really bad year with the sox... now we're thinking of spending 65 million for him over 5 years.... makes one think and thats just one s***ty example to illustrate my point. Here is the biggest reason that Joe is a candidate to be replaced. You forget who his agent is. Edited November 22, 2005 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Just this afternoon, I watched Game 4 of the series again. This is the first time I've watched since the night it was played. Sit and watch that game, then come back and tell me Crede's defense is not important to the Sox. Joe Crede should have been WS MVP when you add his excellent defense to what he produced offensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Some of you need to be beat over the head with the reality stick... Most of you want to get rid of Rowand... (because he sucks :banghead ) Keep Crede (because he's the greatest third basemen ever) and start Brian Anderson (who is a baseball God and can't hit less then .300 if he tried) It's more likely... We trade Rowand... he goes on to win a gold glove (especially if he's a Yankme)... Crede hits .250 next year if he's lucky... and Anderson somewhere in the .230-.240 range... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 01:43 AM) Some of you need to be beat over the head with the reality stick... Most of you want to get rid of Rowand... (because he sucks :banghead ) Keep Crede (because he's the greatest third basemen ever) and start Brian Anderson (who is a baseball God and can't hit less then .300 if he tried) It's more likely... We trade Rowand... he goes on to win a gold glove (especially if he's a Yankme)... Crede hits .250 next year if he's lucky... and Anderson somewhere in the .230-.240 range... You can have my soxtalk name if you really want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 01:43 AM) Some of you need to be beat over the head with the reality stick... Most of you want to get rid of Rowand... (because he sucks :banghead ) Keep Crede (because he's the greatest third basemen ever) and start Brian Anderson (who is a baseball God and can't hit less then .300 if he tried) It's more likely... We trade Rowand... he goes on to win a gold glove (especially if he's a Yankme)... Crede hits .250 next year if he's lucky... and Anderson somewhere in the .230-.240 range... Rowand is potential trade bait because we have good young outfielders. I don't WANT to trade Rowand, but it's more likely he'll be traded than anyone on the club but Marte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 What you don't seem to realize is I agree... We should trade Rowand if the right deal comes up... Right deal being only for a power bat... No other deal fits... The reason I got so pissed before was the thought of giving him away for pitching we didn't need... However you also have to admit that Anderson isn't guarunteed to out perform anybody... Crede is no lock to crack a .230 batting average... These guys aren't can't miss studs... Maybe i'm cynical but I don't think contending teams leave that many maybe's on the field and expect to win... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 01:56 AM) What you don't seem to realize is I agree... We should trade Rowand if the right deal comes up... Right deal being only for a power bat... No other deal fits... The reason I got so pissed before was the thought of giving him away for pitching we didn't need... However you also have to admit that Anderson isn't guarunteed to out perform anybody... Crede is no lock to crack a .230 batting average... These guys aren't can't miss studs... Maybe i'm cynical but I don't think contending teams leave that many maybe's on the field and expect to win... We are thinking along the same lines with the exception of Crede. I believe Joe came into his own late in the year and he'll be a much more productive player over the long term than he has been. I realize, of course, that this is only an opinion on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I'm just waiting till his annual start of the season slump... Then everyone will be calling for his head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) Bill Mueller who hit .295 and has an OBP of .369 would be a backup to Joe Crede who hit .252 with an OBP of .303??? Some people need to put down the Rally Crede pipe a few times. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Haha, good point. Give me Mueller's .295 AVG, .369 OBP, 10 HR, and 62 RBI over Crede's .252 AVG, .303 OBP, 22 HR, and 62 RBI any day of the week. Of course, I wouldn't want to lose Crede's glove at third base but I would take Mueller's bat all day long. Mueller would be a good #2 hitter for us if you look past the whole speed thing. But with Ozzie, I don't see him batting second. Edited November 22, 2005 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 05:31 PM) Bill Mueller who hit .295 and has an OBP of .369 would be a backup to Joe Crede who hit .252 with an OBP of .303??? Some people need to put down the Rally Crede pipe a few times. Why does OBP tend to be the end all - be all stat, when it comes to offensive numbers. Is Joe Crede's job to get ON BASE? No, it isn't. Alfonso Soriano doesn't get on base at a great rate, does that not make him a good offensive player? No, it doesn't. Because there's a stat called OPS. Joe Crede in 4 out of the 6 months in 2005 had a +.800 OPS, which would put him in around the top 5 - top 10 mark for qualified third baseman (and you have to remember one of those months, was when he injured). We need to keep at least some power in this lineup. Konerko goes, and say we bring in a DH who doesn't hit 40HR's like Konerko did. We can't just lose more production like that, and Mueller's more likely to regress over the coming years, while Crede should be coming into his prime. But I think this may have come up because the Sox are having trouble trying to lock Joe down into a 3 year deal unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I really don't think Crede is moving, he will be our starting 3rd baseman. I think if the Sox sign Mueller, which I don't think will happen, he will be a bench player or a part of a DH rotation if we can't get a Delgado or Thome. I trust Kenny, he won a WS last year, I have faith in every move of his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timotime Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 please explain to me why we would do this. also, explain to me just how mueller is better than crede. and mueller at second is just foolish. we have iguchi- hello? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox2334 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I believe Gammons put down the wrong team and yes he is known to do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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