Bush Legacy

[Texsox]

It is proably about the time most second term Presidents begin thinking about their legacy. I love George for a couple things.

 

His initial push for faith based community groups to be a part of solutions.

His cabinet appointments where, for the most part, excellent.

His response during the 9/11 aftermath was incredible.

[FlaSoxxJim]

It is proably about the time most second term Presidents begin thinking about their legacy. I love George for a couple things.

 

His initial push for faith based community groups to be a part of solutions.

His cabinet appointments where, for the most part, excellent.

His response during the 9/11 aftermath was incredible.

 

Faith-based community groups have been a huge part of the solution to social problems for a long time. And as long as they do it on their own dime and not the government's dime they are tops in my book.

 

Excellent Cabinet appointments? Norton is a ctastrophe for protected lands. Ashcroft, Powell and teh first EPA head (not technically a Cabinet position) bailed after the first term. Condi is a Cold war expert who brought a lot of outdated ideas to the post of national Security Advisor. Gonzales (sp?) slimed into Ashcroft's spot because he helped figure out the torture loopholes.

 

I'll concede that once he got off his ass and put down his copy of My Pet Goat, he did rise to the occassion and act very presidential during the 9-11 crisis. And the entire country and world rallied behind him. How the hell somebody could have sqandered that kind of universal goodwill is still betond me.

[Texsox]

I shouldn't have to check my Christian ideals at the door because I want to help, I am part of this country, and should have equal opportunity. So I have no problem with faith based through the government. I also don't have a problem with non-faith based solutions as well. It's a big country and a big budget.

 

Yes, there were a few clinkers in his picks, but that's the case with every President. I think he tried and succeeded in diversity, in diversity of conservative ideology, and picked people of strong character. No one hires at a perfect 100% rate, especially on this scale.

 

The early stages of 9/11 were very confusing. Who really could understand what was happening at the moment? Yes, the first 15 minutes could have been better, but in the overall scheme of things, I give George a high A grade.

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

In my humble opinion, Bush II is the worst president in my lifetime (since 1964).

 

He has trashed the economy, the environment, kowtowed to "Big Business", his foreign policy sucks, he has continued to f**k the poor, he screwed up re. Iraq, etc.

 

Other than that, I guess he's been okay.

 

:puke Bush!

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I shouldn't have to check my Christian ideals at the door because I want to help, I am part of this country, and should have equal opportunity. So I have no problem with faith based through the government. I also don't have a problem with non-faith based solutions as well. It's a big country and a big budget.

 

Yes, there were a few clinkers in his picks, but that's the case with every President. I think he tried and succeeded in diversity, in diversity of conservative ideology, and picked people of strong character. No one hires at a perfect 100% rate, especially on this scale.

 

The early stages of 9/11 were very confusing. Who really could understand what was happening at the moment? Yes, the first 15 minutes could have been better, but in the overall scheme of things, I give George a high A grade.

 

 

Alright alright.........Who are you and what have you done with Tex?!?!?!

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

In my humble opinion, Bush II is the worst president in my lifetime (since 1964).

 

He has trashed the economy, the environment, kowtowed to "Big Business", his foreign policy sucks, he has continued to f**k the poor, he screwed up re. Iraq, etc.

 

Other than that, I guess he's been okay.

 

:puke Bush!

 

 

LMFAO!!!

 

 

Baseless drivel if I ever heard of it.

 

 

Take some of the money from the tax cuts hes given you and buy yourself a clue.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

I'd commend him for his actions after 9/11 but *any* President would have ordered those air strikes. As David Cross stated on the subject: He did what any Prez would have done. I don't go cumming all over the place because the clerk at the donut shop got my order right.

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

LMFAO!!!

Baseless drivel if I ever heard of it.

Take some of the money from the tax cuts hes given you and buy yourself a clue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why doesn't he tax the wealthiest 5% heavier, and make up for the deficit that he caused? Instead he chooses to nail the poor by cutting social services.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I'd commend him for his actions after 9/11 but *any* President would have ordered those air strikes.  As David Cross stated on the subject: He did what any Prez would have done.  I don't go cumming all over the place because the clerk at the donut shop got my order right.

 

 

 

Agree.

 

 

All I ask is that Bushes critics are as forthcoming with praise when he does things well as they are with venom when he does not.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Why doesn't he tax the wealthiest 5% heavier, and make up for the deficit that he caused? Instead he chooses to nail the poor by cutting social services.

 

 

 

Someone read Das Kapital last night.

 

 

The defecit is not caused by tax cuts its caused by Congress being on an uncontrollable spending binge.

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

It is baseless drivel either, Nuke...here are the facts.

 

1) We now have billions of dollars in federal deficit, after Clinton left us with billions in surplus;

 

2) Re. the environment, Bush pulled us out of the Kyoto accord, eased pollution standards on big corporations, is trying to destroy the Alaskan wilderness for a "few drops of oil", etc.

 

3) Re. the "War on Terrorism", attacked the wrong country, has NO plan on how to get out of Iraq, hamstrung Israel.

 

4) Foreign policy...crammed bad deal after bad deal down Israel's throat.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I shouldn't have to check my Christian ideals at the door because I want to help, I am part of this country, and should have equal opportunity. So I have no problem with faith based through the government. I also don't have a problem with non-faith based solutions as well. It's a big country and a big budget.

 

Yes, there were a few clinkers in his picks, but that's the case with every President. I think he tried and succeeded in diversity, in diversity of conservative ideology, and picked people of strong character. No one hires at a perfect 100% rate, especially on this scale.

 

The early stages of 9/11 were very confusing. Who really could understand what was happening at the moment? Yes, the first 15 minutes could have been better, but in the overall scheme of things, I give George a high A grade.

 

I've thought long and hard about the faith-based charities question. And my concerns about the problems that can arise if they receive government funding are echoed by a lot of the people who run these charities as well.

 

Faith-based charities that fund themselves do not have to check their Christian ideals at the door, and it is great that they exist to do what they do. Ditto for Muslim faith-based charities, Jewish faith-based charities, etc. All of these charities are primarily in the business of helping folks who need help, and more power to them all. But a lot of them also have the side business of proselytizing, evangelizing, and converting. That's remains their prerogative if they are self-funded, and folks can choose to take them up on the charity/sermon combo or not (though desperate times can force the choice, see the history of the Irish "soupers" – Catholics who converted to Protestantism during the famine years in order to receive charity from Prod soup lines)

 

But if they are funded with tax dollars, these organizations should not be able to proselytize on the sly on the government dime, regardless of the good they may be doing. Like you, Tex, many service oriented persons of faith understandably have a hard time checking their faith at the door, which is what has to happen to avoid a situation in which tax dollars are subsidizing the furthering of specific religious messages.

 

Above and beyond that is the obvious potential for conflict in awarding the funding. When secular and faith-based organizations or organizations tied to different faiths are competing for moneys, there is too great a risk of real or apparent bias in awarding those moneys.

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

Someone read Das Kapital last night. 

The defecit is not caused by tax cuts its caused by Congress being on an uncontrollable spending binge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean, the Republican-controlled Congress???

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

You mean, the Republican-controlled Congress???

 

 

The very same.

[kapkomet]

I think someone has someone else's password. ...

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

1) We now have billions of dollars in federal deficit, after Clinton left us with billions in surplus;

 

Clinton left us with a recession and also he didn't have to deal with 9-11, war and several massive natural disasters.

 

 

2) Re. the environment, Bush pulled us out of the Kyoto accord, eased pollution standards on big corporations, is trying to destroy the Alaskan wilderness for a "few drops of oil", etc.

 

Rightfully so. The Kyoto accord was basically a "f*** the United States treaty". It would be a disaster for our economy and would do nothing about global pollution since countries like India and China ( who pollute every bit as badly as we do ) are exempt from its restrictions.

 

3) Re. the "War on Terrorism", attacked the wrong country, has NO plan on how to get out of Iraq, hamstrung Israel.

 

We did?! I seem to remember us deposing the Taliban first and even though nobody notices or cares Afghanistan is pretty darn stable and moving forward with its reconstruction.

 

 

4) Foreign policy...crammed bad deal after bad deal down Israel's throat.

 

What are you talking about?

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

I think someone has someone else's password.  ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My whole family are Democrats, if that's what you're implying!

 

[kapkomet]

My whole family are Democrats, if that's what you're implying!

 

We know.

[southsider2k5]

It is baseless drivel either, Nuke...here are the facts.

 

1) We now have billions of dollars in federal deficit, after Clinton left us with billions in surplus;

 

2) Re. the environment, Bush pulled us out of the Kyoto accord, eased pollution standards on big corporations, is trying to destroy the Alaskan wilderness for a "few drops of oil", etc.

 

3) Re. the "War on Terrorism", attacked the wrong country, has NO plan on how to get out of Iraq, hamstrung Israel.

 

4) Foreign policy...crammed bad deal after bad deal down Israel's throat.

 

I'll just speak to #1, but would you have preferred that Bush let the economy just go into the toilet after 9-11? Other than that, what money-free solution did you have to saving people's jobs???

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

Clinton left us with a recession and also he didn't have to deal with 9-11, war and several massive natural disasters.

Rightfully so.  The Kyoto accord was basically a "f*** the United States treaty".  It would be a disaster for our economy and would do nothing about global pollution since countries like India and China ( who pollute every bit as badly as we do ) are exempt from its restrictions.

We did?!  I seem to remember us deposing the Taliban first and even though nobody notices or cares Afghanistan is pretty darn stable and moving forward with its reconstruction. 

What are you talking about?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. The War budget is a separate entity from the rest of the Fed budget, doesn't count against the deficit.

 

2. Kyoto would have only been "disastrous" for the big Corporations that the Republicans kowtow to, for the rest of the world it would have been good.

 

3. Where is Osama? Do you feel any safer after Bush declared "war on terrorism"? I sure as hell don't.

 

4. Bush forced Sharon to give up Gaza, Bush forced Sharon to allow the "Palis" control over the "borders" around Gaza, Bush prevented Israel from taking out Pali terrorist cells on several occasions, Bush has a "do as I say, not as I do" philosophy when it comes to Israel and her war against terrorism.

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

I'll just speak to #1, but would you have preferred that Bush let the economy just go into the toilet after 9-11?  Other than that, what money-free solution did you have to saving people's jobs???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about taxing the Hell out of those who can afford it most (i.e Corporations, the wealthiest 10% of the population), and not putting the burden on those who can least afford it?

[southsider2k5]

How about taxing the Hell out of those who can afford it most (i.e Corporations, the wealthiest 10% of the population), and not putting the burden on those who can least afford it?

 

You mean adding costs to the companies that had already been shattered due to the Clinton recession and 9-11??? LMAO. We did that once already. Except back then it was called the Great Depression.

[kapkomet]

THE RICH MUST PAY MORE. PAY PAY PAY PAY.

 

:rolly

 

That doesn't work.

 

I find it amazing that tax revenues received is HIGHER with the Bush tax cuts enacted. Hmmm.

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

You mean adding costs to the companies that had already been shattered due to the Clinton recession and 9-11???  LMAO.  We did that once already.  Except back then it was called the Great Depression.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay then...let's nail the unemployed, the homeless, the disenfranchised, the uninsured, etc.,

 

Let's let the fatcats like Bill Gates, Donald Trump, the Waltons sit in their ivory towers and make billions of dollars virtually untaxed. Let's let Exxon destroy Alaska....

[kapkomet]

Okay then...let's nail the unemployed, the homeless, the disenfranchised, the uninsured, etc.,

 

Let's let the fatcats like Bill Gates, Donald Trump, the Waltons sit in their ivory towers and make billions of dollars virtually untaxed. Let's let Exxon destroy Alaska....

Virtually untaxed? How would you like to have a $xx million tax bill each year?