White Sox acquire Jim Thome per ESPNnews

[ptatc]

Baldelli isn't that much better than Anderson, IMO.

 

Maybe. He has proven hi9mself at the major league level and is definitely faster. He fits the "speed guy" Ozzie wants more than Anderson does.

[Chisoxfn]

I was thinking Rocco Baldelli. Another guy coming off an injury on a team with a surplus at the position. KW might be able to swing a good deal with a new GM in Tampa.

If were going with unprovens (and I think Rocco is over-rated, although very talented) we might as well stick with our in-house guy of Brian Anderson. Just my 2 cents. I think Anderson has more all around ability than Rocco.

 

Good suggestion though.

 

The main reason I don't see Anderson as the answer (this year) is because Ozzie wants a 2 hole hitter. Thats been documented and I am 99% sure that won't be Guchi (he'll slide down in the lineup replacing Aaron and do a better job, imo). Anderson obviously is not capable of being a 2 hole hitter (at least not now) so you'd have to find someone.

 

The big sleeper I'd go with is Milton Bradley. He can handle the bat and has all the tools (not as quick as he once was) but he has boughts with laziness and is a racist that doesn't fit in the clubhouse.

[TLAK]

Jason ... put your thinking cap on ....

 

Who else fits besides Pierre?  Somebody with speed, can handle the bat, and can function in the #2 hole.

I might get flamed for this, but isn't the 2 spot a nice place to break in a hitter. It makes him concentrate on plate discipline, he can help the team without a hit by sacraficing or just grounding out to the right side and he still gets some proportion of at bats where he can hit for himself. I'm thinking it might be a good spot for Anderson, giving him a specific job to do during an at bat could help him while he adjusts to the league.

 

I wouldn't suggest this with anyone except Ozzie Guillen manageing -he puts on a play nearly every chance he gets.

[Balta1701]

I might get flamed for this, but isn't the 2 spot a nice place to break in a hitter.  It makes him concentrate on plate discipline, he can help the team without a hit by sacraficing or just grounding out to the right side and he still gets some proportion of at bats where he can hit for himself.  I'm thinking it might be a good spot for Anderson, giving him a specific job to do during an at bat could help him while he adjusts to the league.

 

I wouldn't suggest this with anyone except Ozzie Guillen manageing -he puts on a play nearly every chance he gets.

I believe that the Mariners tried to start Jeremy Reed off in the #2 hole last year. In about 120 at bats, he hit .220 in that slot.

 

It's not always a terrible idea, but there's no guarantee it will work. I think B.A. should be left to sit at the back of the lineup somewhere around Uribe and Crede until we see what he's going to be giving us.

[ptatc]

If were going with unprovens (and I think Rocco is over-rated, although very talented) we might as well stick with our in-house guy of Brian Anderson.  Just my 2 cents.  I think Anderson has more all around ability than Rocco.

 

Good suggestion though. 

 

The main reason I don't see Anderson as the answer (this year) is because Ozzie wants a 2 hole hitter. Thats been documented and I am 99% sure that won't be Guchi (he'll slide down in the lineup replacing Aaron and do a better job, imo).  Anderson obviously is not capable of being a 2 hole hitter (at least not now) so you'd have to find someone. 

 

The big sleeper I'd go with is Milton Bradley.  He can handle the bat and has all the tools (not as quick as he once was) but he has boughts with laziness and is a racist that doesn't fit in the clubhouse.

 

Very talented but one of the biggest jerks in the game. I don't think he's the kind of guy KW and Ozzie want for the team.

 

All of this being said I agree that we should just stick with BA. I believe KWand Ozzie think it is time to get him MLB playing time.

Edited November 24, 2005 by ptatc

[greasywheels121]

WOW!

 

I had no clue until about 15 minutes ago that this even happened. Hurts to lose a guy like Rowand, but I think we'll be just fine.

 

KW does it again.

[Guest JimH]

I might get flamed for this, but isn't the 2 spot a nice place to break in a hitter.  It makes him concentrate on plate discipline, he can help the team without a hit by sacraficing or just grounding out to the right side and he still gets some proportion of at bats where he can hit for himself.  I'm thinking it might be a good spot for Anderson, giving him a specific job to do during an at bat could help him while he adjusts to the league.

 

I wouldn't suggest this with anyone except Ozzie Guillen manageing -he puts on a play nearly every chance he gets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yours is an excellent point. You're right, it's sometimes very good with a young player to just tell him "here's what you do in this AB". It's one hell of a lot of pressure though, especially with this teams huge expectations. Iguchi was somewhat of a different case ... much more experienced and likely more fundamentally sound.

 

Here is a name that might fit into the mix somehow, some way ... Ryan Freel. He is arbitration eligible with the Reds and might be available. Speed, can handle the bat, can play multiple positions. He might be an interesting player.

 

I still think all signs point to Juan Pierre though.

[Chisoxfn]

I just want to point out. The reports say the Phils are going to pick up 22 million of the contract, which means the Sox would be paying an avg of just over 7 mill (for 3 years). If you figure in the 3.25 Aaron was slated to make the deal ends up meaning the Sox would see there payroll increase 3.75-3.8 million over last years.

 

This means if the Sox give Konerko 3 million more (he made good money this year IIRC, 10 mill or so) you'd have roughly a 7 million increase in those two players.

 

Obviously other guys are due raises, but thats not even figuring in the loss of Everett and Thomas which would easily wash out Konerko's raise and Thome's net (minus Arows salary).

 

Which means Garland and maybe a few others get raises (pushing you to 6-8 million). This means the Sox (after this trade) still have anywhere from 7-12 million (depending on what you think payroll will be 85 or 90) to make upgrades (thats if they don't deal Duque).

[Chisoxfn]

Very talented but one of the biggest jerks in the game. I don't think he's the kind of guy KW and Ozzie want for the team.

 

All of this being said I agree that we should just stick with BA. I believe KWand Ozzie think it is time to get him MLB playing time.

I tend to agree, but he could be had for little (in the sense of prospects).

[Chisoxfn]

Yours is an excellent point.  You're right, it's sometimes very good with a young player to just tell him "here's what you do in this AB".  It's one hell of a lot of pressure though, especially with this teams huge expectations.  Iguchi was somewhat of a different case ... much more experienced and likely more fundamentally sound.

 

Here is a name that might fit into the mix somehow, some way ... Ryan Freel.  He is arbitration eligible with the Reds and might be available.  Speed, can handle the bat, can play multiple positions.  He might be an interesting player.

 

I still think all signs point to Juan Pierre though.

I just don't think Anderson handles the bat that well and I could really see him failing. The 2 hole is a key spot in Ozzie's lineup (especially with what he asks him to do) and I think your risking a lot not having a veteran who can handle the bat in that spot.

 

This is the only reason why I don't think Anderson will be the starter. If Guchi was going to stay in the 2 hole than I could easily see Anderson being named the starter.

[Kalapse]

I just want to point out.  The reports say the Phils are going to pick up 22 million of the contract, which means the Sox would be paying an avg of just over 7 mill (for 3 years).  If you figure in the 3.25 Aaron was slated to make the deal ends up meaning the Sox would see there payroll increase 3.75-3.8 million over last years. 

 

This means if the Sox give Konerko 3 million more (he made good money this year IIRC, 10 mill or so) you'd have roughly a 7 million increase in those two players. 

 

Obviously other guys are due raises, but thats not even figuring in the loss of Everett and Thomas which would easily wash out Konerko's raise and Thome's net (minus Arows salary). 

 

Which means Garland and maybe a few others get raises (pushing you to 6-8 million).  This means the Sox (after this trade) still have anywhere from 7-12 million (depending on what you think payroll will be 85 or 90) to make upgrades (thats if they don't deal Duque).

$8.75

[Chisoxfn]

$8.75

Boy was I off. Well I think the overall numbers I gave were fairly accurate (although it was a ballpark figure off the top of my head).

[Guest JimH]

I just don't think Anderson handles the bat that well and I could really see him failing.  The 2 hole is a key spot in Ozzie's lineup (especially with what he asks him to do) and I think your risking a lot not having a veteran who can handle the bat in that spot. 

 

This is the only reason why I don't think Anderson will be the starter.  If Guchi was going to stay in the 2 hole than I could easily see Anderson being named the starter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, agree with this.

 

Here's how I think the dominoes will fall:

 

They deal Marte + something else cheap to Florida for Juan Pierre. That something else cheap could be a prospect like Borchard plus another more desireable prospect ... or it could be Marte and a higher ceiling guy like Anderson, with possibly something else coming back to the White Sox. Either way the key pieces are Marte and Pierre.

 

KW then goes out and finds a lefty reliever, they patch in another utility guy or even stay with Harris and you're all done.

[Heads22]

Weird. Our local access channel has pictures of Row and Tho side by side, screen frozen.

[Chisoxfn]

Yes, agree with this.

 

Here's how I think the dominoes will fall:

 

They deal Marte + something else cheap to Florida for Juan Pierre.  That something else cheap could be a prospect like Borchard plus another more desireable prospect ... or it could be Marte and a higher ceiling guy like Anderson, with possibly something else coming back to the White Sox.  Either way the key pieces are Marte and Pierre.

 

KW then goes out and finds a lefty reliever, they patch in another utility guy or even stay with Harris and you're all done.

I'm with you on this. Anderson will get a lot of Ab's (375-450), but as the 4th outfielder and he'll be ready to replace one of the speedsters in 07 (whether its Pierre who becomes a FA or Pods).

 

The key is I want the Sox to find a good reliever to replace Marte (the pen was huge for the Sox last year and was one of the key reasons they did what they did). I can also see quite a few guys in that Sox pen having worse years than 05 (which definately means I want another guy or two in there).

 

I can't see giving up much more than Marte for Pierre though (considering Juan's salary).

[Balta1701]

Boy was I off.  Well I think the overall numbers I gave were fairly accurate (although it was a ballpark figure off the top of my head).

The overall theme is quite accurate.

 

If we put Anderson in CF and Thome at DH...compared to Everett and Rowand...we spend $400k on Anderson, and $7 mil or so on Thome. Everett last year made $4 mil, and Rowand was slated to make $3.25 mil. So cutting Everett and trading Rowand basically makes this deal almost a wash in terms of how much it'll cost us to put the team on the field.

 

That leaves us, of course, with Konerko's $8 million, plus Thomas's $4.5 million (after the buyout). With all those things combined...we can put the same team on the field, with BA in Center, Thome at DH, and Konerko at 1b for $12.5 million a year without hardly any increase in payroll beyond whatever Everett's buyout cost us.

 

That said...since we're expecting salary to go up along with attendence...we have the money now to sign guys like Garland, AJ, Crede, and Maybe even Contreras to a few new deals.

[Balta1701]

The key is I want the Sox to find a good reliever to replace Marte (the pen was huge for the Sox last year and was one of the key reasons they did what they did).  I can also see quite a few guys in that Sox pen having worse years than 05 (which definately means I want another guy or two in there). 

Remember this about the bullpen...we're already starting off at what I think is a better slot than we did last year...we've got Jenks starting off in the closer role as opposed to Takatsu. We have Hermanson and Politte both as potential setup men, so if one of them has a down year, we have the other one. We also have a better long-relief man in El Duque, who hopefully can give us 3 innings during a long game while we wait for Thome to go yard - and I consider Duque, even with his high WHIP and all, to be an upgrade over Viz if Duque can stay healthy for 70 innings.

 

Then of course, there's Cotts and Marte. If Cotts were to take a step back...we'd need Marte to take a step forwards again. Beats me. If Marte is traded...Scott Eyre has already signed with the Cubs, so we would have a gap as that 2nd lefty.

[TLAK]

Well, now we have a place for Ken Griffey to play.

[Balta1701]

Well, now we have a place for Ken Griffey to play.

[Dam8610]

I don't know if this has already been said here or not, but the minor leaguers the Sox are giving up are Gio Gonzalez and Dan Haigwood. Here is the article I obtained this info from.

[RME JICO]

Yep it has been mentioned, thanks anyway.

 

I am just wondering how this will have an impact on signing Paulie as Craig Landis is the agent for Aaron and Paulie.

 

Will this have an impact?

[Balta1701]

Craig Landis will not turn against the White Sox because one of his guys got traded. It's his job to represent his guy...Konerko...and right now the Sox are in an excellent position to give PK every single thing he could ask for other than that 6 year deal.

[RME JICO]

Craig Landis will not turn against the White Sox because one of his guys got traded.  It's his job to represent his guy...Konerko...and right now the Sox are in an excellent position to give PK every single thing he could ask for other than that 6 year deal.

I don't mean that he is going to turn against the Sox, but instead use this as leverage to get more money, or maybe that extra year (5th not 6th). I still think the 4yr, 52 Million deal is great for Paulie and the Sox.

[SSH2005]

I didn't read through this entire thread so bear with me if this is old news. Bruce Levine of ESPN 1000 reported that the Sox are no longer interested in Juan Pierre. George Offman of WSCR 670 reported that the Cubs are still trying to make a deal for Pierre. It looks like Brian Anderson will be our starting center fielder.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

exactly.  i remember a certain trade last year that we ALL HATED initially... hmm which one was that?

 

KW knows what he's doing.  I too am really disappointed to see rowand go - like REALLY.  i love the guy - he was one of my fav. sox.  but ya know, things have to go down and I trust KW

Hey Miguel Olivo is a 1st ballot HOF'er and a Gold Glove catcher...and don't you forget it!

 

KW just brought us together the pieces for a World Series title and people, not more than a month after that happened are ready to kill him. You Doom and Gloomers really suck ass.

 

I agree with Reddy. The minors are stocked with OF'ers and we have a potential fleecing on our hands if Thome stays injury free. He's a monster bat (on the off chance we don't sign Kong...and if we do, all the better to have another beast in the lineup giving Kong protection) and he is a better choice than Everett at the DH position. Yeah, Rowand had a lot of heart -- but before s***ting your pants about the trade, take the time to go in the bathroom, read a magazine and take your time dumping appropriately. Logistically for the club, we had to make room for some of the minor league OF'ers to come up & we needed to have a backup plan if Kong goes to LAA or Boston, etc. The sweet part of the deal is that we have the potential cash left over after this trade to sign Konerko. I'm sure another division dominating, playoff dominating season will smooth over any sore feelings of having a player traded.