White Sox acquire Jim Thome per ESPNnews

[Whitewashed in '05]

Oh man, it's Jim f***ing Thome.  We didn't get ripped off.  Rowand was garbage on offense, but he played great defense that will be basically made up by Anderson.  Haigwood and Gio are years away, and I'd be willing to bet that neither of them reaches their potential enough to make this trade suck.

 

If KW hasn't earned your respect and trust yet, then there's nothing more to add.

I think the reason why a lot of people like me are mad is because we lost a symbol of our world champion sox in 05. He is the definition of White Sox baseball and it hurts to see him leave even if it is for Jim Thome. I understand the big plus with Thome, but Rowand's departure hurts me.

 

Rowand is a gamer and has a great personality, something I want from every White Sox.

 

With that said I hope he has a great career and we will miss him.

[Rowand44]

If KW hasn't earned your respect and trust yet, then there's nothing more to add.

Bingo. The man overhauled a whole team last offseason and built them into a world series winner, he gets the benefit of the doubt no matter what he does this offseason.

[hi8is]

maybe you should change your screen name? it might help all of us who are emotionaly torn for arow.

[hi8is]

heres a quote from mid season 2004... if you are sad about arron leaving... smile:

"Through August 1, Thome's 78 home runs since 2003 are six better than Barry Bonds and two better than Alex Rodriguez. His 130 homers from 2002 and August 1, 2004 are two behind A-Rod and 12 better than Bonds, who obviously is pitched to less often."

[WilliamTell]

Alomar needs two checks.

 

lol which one?? We got both Alomar's twice.

[WilliamTell]

I've noticed for the most part, the former Indians we've brough here haven't played the way we've hoped them to have played. Maybe it'll be different this time around with Thome, who knows.

[YASNY]

I've read through about 20 pages of this thread. Wide range of comments and emotions expressed, that's for sure. Here's a few thoughts in reaction to ssome the comments, in general.

 

I agree with the train of thought that prosects are suspects until proven otherwise.

 

Acquiring Thome was a move KW had to make, if it was at all reasonable. Frank is a great big "?" and Thome offers substantially less risk. Delgado was already off the market and big bats are scarce. Getting Thome, in addition to adding a great LH thumper, also serves as an insurance policy in case Paulie flies the coop.

 

Aaron Rowand. Wow. What else can be said about this guy. I've loved him since he came up to Sox and I really hate to lose him. He's a gamer and he'll always be one of my all time favorite Sox players. That said, this trade just makes sense for the Sox, both long term and short term. We have needed a Jim Thome type player for years. We have a slew of good young outfield talent just waiting to force their way into Chicago. We'll leave Arizona with one them having done so, more than likely. If not, then we have acquired Pierre of someone else.

[DBAHO]

I've read through about 20 pages of this thread.  Wide range of comments and emotions expressed, that's for sure.  Here's a few thoughts in reaction to ssome the comments, in general.

 

I agree with the train of thought that prosects are suspects until proven otherwise.

 

Acquiring Thome was a move KW had to make, if it was at all reasonable.  Frank is a great big "?" and Thome offers substantially less risk.  Delgado was already off the market and big bats are scarce.  Getting Thome, in addition to adding a great LH thumper, also serves as an insurance policy in case Paulie flies the coop.

 

Aaron Rowand. Wow.  What else can be said about this guy.  I've loved him since he came up to Sox and I really hate to lose him.  He's a gamer and he'll always be one of my all time favorite Sox players.  That said, this trade just makes sense for the Sox, both long term and short term.  We have needed a Jim Thome type player for years.  We have a slew of good young outfield talent just waiting to force their way into Chicago.  We'll leave Arizona with one them having done so, more than likely.  If not, then we have acquired Pierre of someone else.

YAS for the last couple of years I know you've definitely said we needed a LH power hitter, and it definitely makes a lot of sense. We just weren't that good against righties at all last season, and with Everett leaving, we needed at least 1 lefty hitter to help pick up the slack there.

 

To put this into recognition, in 03 and 04 his good seasons with the Phillies, he had splits of .272/.405/.623 and .294/.435/.641 against righties. The White Sox as a team last season hit .259/.318/.417 against righties. Expect that to change for the better in 2006.

 

Thome also for his career has splits of .286/.382/.600 at the Cell. That's a .982 OPS. Konerko was the best White Sox player last season (obviously) with a .909 OPS.

[beck72]

I don't really understand how this can be a positive trade? Thome had a no-trade clause and was apparently only willing to accept a trade to the White Sox and Indians, the Tribe didn't want him, so effectively the White Sox were the only team in the running for Thome. It seems to me if Kenny Williams had waited for a few more months the Phillies would have been more desperate and the Sox wouldn't have to part with two top-tier prospects. I see this trade as a lack of patience from Willimas that cost him more than would have been necessary to acquire Thome.

 

The sox wanted Thome and struck a deal to acquire him. Sure they might have waited, and the price might have went down. But the sox are in a position this offseason [based on the added revenue and the added pressure to repeat] to make sure they get they pieces they both need and want.

 

Waiting for the exact right time is what teams like the pirates and devil rays do. Elite teams, teams that expect to contend for the world series, sometimes have to overpay to fill the holes they have.

[thephan]

Philly Phan throwing in. Trade equity is a bit TBD I think on the Phils side not knowing the prosects well or having actually seen them in action (minor league stats are interesting measures sometimes IMHO).

 

I wanted to say that I think that you will be very happy with Big Jim. I think his injury last season was just a bump in the road, and that most major leaguers go through something in thier career. Certainly his recient stats show that he has been a special guy (he did win the HR crown in the NL). Also, his defense is surprisingly good as it seems to generally be overlooked. Some of those 3B skills still remain.

 

I have read most of this thread and see that there are character concerns about the departure of arow. Well, Thome is a club house leader and a community minded player. You have gotten the kind of guy that people want their children to grow up like. I don't think you've missed a step. Also, this is his home coming. He will be missed in Philly.

 

I think you will find that there will be a lot of Philly phan crossover in rootig for the whitesox 'cause of Thome. I hope he hit the cover off the ball for you guys. I really hope he does it for him as he deserves it!

 

Good luck Jim anf the Sox!

[gosox41]

not really... Especially not when it means FT's a goner...

 

 

I agree. IMHO, Frank is a more productive player then Thome when healthy. They're both coming off injuries. Frank had a broken bone, Thome had elbow surgery (along with chronic back problems). Who's to say that Frank is higher risk to suffer another injury over Thome. Can Jim's right elbow handle the stress of 500+ plate appearances in a season + batting practice (need to have timing) and who knows how many swings he's going to take.

 

The way I see this trade for the 2006 season is Anderson can do what Rownad did in 2005 so it's break even their. If PK leaves this trade looks great. If he stays then I don't see how this team is any better unless someone can guarantee that Thome will be healthy for a full season where as Frank wasn't healthy for most of 2005. It seems like a lot of risk (including financial) for very little reward considering that Thomas can hit 40+ HR's and have a ton of walks.

 

 

 

Bob

[Dick Allen]

I agree.  IMHO, Frank is a more productive player then Thome when healthy.  They're both coming off injuries.  Frank had a broken bone, Thome had elbow surgery (along with chronic back problems). Who's to say that Frank is higher risk to suffer another injury over Thome.  Can Jim's right elbow handle the stress of 500+ plate appearances in a season + batting practice (need to have timing) and who knows how many swings he's going to take.

 

The way I see this trade for the 2006 season is Anderson can do what Rownad did in 2005 so it's break even their.  If PK leaves this trade looks great.  If he stays then I don't see how this team is any better unless someone can guarantee that Thome will be healthy for a full season where as Frank wasn't healthy for most of 2005.  It seems like a lot of risk (including financial) for very little reward considering that Thomas can hit 40+ HR's and have a ton of walks.

Bob

The big problem is Thomas cannot be counted to be able to play at all. His foot is still not healed and it may not be healed by opening day. There is better than a 50% chance his career is over. If he is able to return, it is more than likely just a matter of time before it breaks again. Thome obviously has risk, but he is cheaper than Thomas was last year, with what the Phillies are throwing in, and if he's healthy will put up similar numbers a healthy Frank would put up, and also add a presence from the left side of the plate. Besides that, he also could play the field.

[ptatc]

I agree.  IMHO, Frank is a more productive player then Thome when healthy.  They're both coming off injuries.  Frank had a broken bone, Thome had elbow surgery (along with chronic back problems). Who's to say that Frank is higher risk to suffer another injury over Thome.  Can Jim's right elbow handle the stress of 500+ plate appearances in a season + batting practice (need to have timing) and who knows how many swings he's going to take.

 

The way I see this trade for the 2006 season is Anderson can do what Rownad did in 2005 so it's break even their.  If PK leaves this trade looks great.  If he stays then I don't see how this team is any better unless someone can guarantee that Thome will be healthy for a full season where as Frank wasn't healthy for most of 2005.  It seems like a lot of risk (including financial) for very little reward considering that Thomas can hit 40+ HR's and have a ton of walks.

Bob

 

Believe me the Thomas injury is much worse. He had two separate fractures in a bone about an inch cubed in volume. The reason he didn't have a second surgery is that there is no room in the bone to do another one. Thomas' injury as I stated last seaon was career threatening with the first one let alone the second. He could very well be done.

 

In contrast, Thome's elbow is fixed. It's a fairly routine procedure now. He is just doing rehab. The back may flair up but is definitely not career threatening at this point. There is minimal risk compared to Thomas.

Edited November 24, 2005 by ptatc

[YASNY]

Philly Phan throwing in. Trade equity is a bit TBD I think on the Phils side not knowing the prosects well or having actually seen them in action (minor league stats are interesting measures sometimes IMHO).

 

I wanted to say that I think that you will be very happy with Big Jim. I think his injury last season was just a bump  in the road, and that most major leaguers go through something in thier career. Certainly his recient stats show that he has been a special guy (he did win the HR crown in the NL). Also, his defense is surprisingly good as it seems to generally be overlooked. Some of those 3B skills still remain.

 

I have read most of this thread and see that there are character concerns about the departure of arow. Well, Thome is a club house leader and a community minded player. You have gotten the kind of guy that people want their children to grow up like. I don't think you've missed a step. Also, this is his home coming. He will be missed in Philly.

 

I think you will find that there will be a lot of Philly phan crossover in rootig for the whitesox 'cause of Thome. I hope he hit the cover off the ball for you guys. I really hope he does it for him as he deserves it!

 

Good luck Jim anf the Sox!

 

Most of us 'veteran' Sox fans are very familiar with Thome, including the fact that he's a pillar of society. You guys are going love Aaron Rowand. He plays the game 'balls to the wall'. See ya in the Series. By the way, we have become kind of fond of those post season sweeps.

[mr_genius]

uh oh, Mariotti likes the Thome trade.

 

i'm worried now.

[RME JICO]

uh oh, Mariotti likes the Thome trade.

 

i'm worried now.

He will hate it when Thome strikeouts, and love it when Thome hits GW HR's.

 

Mariotti being Mariotti

[AddisonStSox]

After a Black Wednesday Bender, I'm all caught up on sleep and figured I post my initial day-after reaction.

 

When potentially losing your best power-hitter via free agency at a corner-infield position, you simply can not afford to rest on your laurels--albeit Championship laurels--and watch 40HR and 100RBI walk out the door. Now knowing whether he'd win in the Konerko sweepstakes, Williams acquired another one of his "diamond in the rough" types in perennial All-Star, Jim Thome. "Addy, how in the hell can you call Thome a 'diamond in the rough?' He has 400+ career home runs!" Well, I can call him that on good conscious for a few reasons. First, Thome has been out of the limelight for the better part of an entire MLB season and has faded quite a lot in the baseball conscious. If healthy, Thome can not only replicate Konerko's 2005 production, but surpass that, while hitting from the left-side. In all honesty, I think they may have to issue hardhats in the Bullpen Sports Bar this season. Thome is primed for an absolute stellar year hitting in the launchpad known as US Cellular Field. Second, it would appear we are replacing an amazing clubhouse guy with a player cast from the same mold. Ask the fans of Philladelphia--known as being amongst the most cut-throat in sports--this guy has a flawless reputation. After being such an advocate for chemistry, Williams replaced the epitome of "Grinder" material with another light-hearted, fun-loving slugger (again, I have not stepped foot inside either the White Sox or Phillies clubhouse, simply conjecturing from the vast articles, photos, etc. on the subject at hand). Finally, if batting back-to-back with Paul Konerko, Williams may have put together one of the finest Righty-Lefty 1-2 punches in the American League in recent memory. Although I have gone on record as saying I don't think you'll see both Thome and Konerko on the same roster, those two paired together would be an absolute nightmare on opposing pitchers. Oh, by the way, the White Sox will be paying roughy $7M per for Thome. Nice, huh?

 

Two more areas to consider--bear with me . Let's quickly examine what we are losing.

 

Aaron Rowand: What can be said of Aaron that hasn't already been touched upon? We are losing one of the most prominent faces of a Championship roster...anytime you lose that, it is going to sting. While Aaron has yet to prove to me he can produce offensively on a consistant basis, you know what you're getting from a fielding standpoint day-in-and-day-out. Aaron was an absolute joy to watch roaming center-field, deserving a Gold Glove. What can make you get over such a collosal lose? How about a 40+HR campaign from the left-side? That might help.

 

"The Prospects": Not even going to pretend to know a great deal about these two. In all honesty, the only reason I'm somewhat familiar with these two is due in large part to the efforts of Jason, Rex, Rich, etc. that do such a good job keeping us abreast of our prospects. But, something I am very confident in saying, is I firmly believe in the trading of prospects if it does not deplete the system. "Jermey Reed!?!? How the hell is Williams trading Reed!? That kid is pefect for this team...he represents something we have not had in a long, long time." Does Jeremy Reed have a ring on his finger? He might...but, I promise you it isn't as pretty as the one Freddy Garcia has.

 

Gear up for another exciting season, gang. I really think Thome is going to endear himself to our largely blue-collar fanbase in no time. He is really primed for a "comeback" campaign and I think paired with Paul Konerko, those two could put up numbers the likes of which have never been seen on the Southside of Chicago. Williams just brought this fanbase a Championship after 88 years. Clearly, the man has a plan. In the weeks to come, look for Kenny to work hand-in-hand with Guillen to figure out what direction this team is headed. Is it speed? Can you possibly improve an already stellar bullpen? We'll see. What Guillen wants, Guillen gets. Ozzie--the annointed King of small-ball--obviously felt the services Jim Thome provides to be a necessity, otherwise, he would not part with his defensive wiz and all-around "grinder" in Rowand. I'd also like to take the opportunity to say I think if Jerry Owens impresses in Spring Training, you might have found the player to man the fort until the arrival of "King Chris."

 

Happy Thanksgiving, ya'll. We're going to field a competitive team in 2006 and beyond with Jim Thome on board. I think we're in for a treat. Flame if you will.

[mr_genius]

good post AddisonSt. I agree 100%.

[YASNY]

Addison. No flame from me. Well said and Happy Thanksgiving.

[RME JICO]

In all honesty, I think they may have to issue hardhats in the Bullpen Sports Bar this season. 

I love this one!

 

Oh, by the way, the White Sox will be paying roughy $7M per for Thome.  Nice, huh?

 

Thome's salaries will be more like this:

 

2006 - $12.5 Million (-7.3 Phils) = Sox Pay $5.2 Million

2007 - $14.0 Million (-7.3 Phils) = Sox Pay $6.7 Million

2008 - $14.0 Million (-7.3 Phils) = Sox Pay $6.7 Million

[White Sox Josh]

After a Black Wednesday Bender, I'm all caught up on sleep and figured I post my initial day-after reaction.

 

When potentially losing your best power-hitter via free agency at a corner-infield position, you simply can not afford to rest on your laurels--albeit Championship laurels--and watch 40HR and 100RBI walk out the door.  Now knowing whether he'd win in the Konerko sweepstakes, Williams acquired another one of his "diamond in the rough" types in perennial All-Star, Jim Thome.  "Addy, how in the hell can you call Thome a 'diamond in the rough?' He has 400+ career home runs!" Well, I can call him that on good conscious for a few reasons.  First, Thome has been out of the limelight for the better part of an entire MLB season and has faded quite a lot in the baseball conscious.  If healthy, Thome can not only replicate Konerko's 2005 production, but surpass that, while hitting from the left-side.  In all honesty, I think they may have to issue hardhats in the Bullpen Sports Bar this season.  Thome is primed for an absolute stellar year hitting in the launchpad known as US Cellular Field.  Second, it would appear we are replacing an amazing clubhouse guy with a player cast from the same mold.  Ask the fans of Philladelphia--known as being amongst the most cut-throat in sports--this guy has a flawless reputation.  After being such an advocate for chemistry, Williams replaced the epitome of "Grinder" material with another light-hearted, fun-loving slugger (again, I have not stepped foot inside either the White Sox or Phillies clubhouse, simply conjecturing from the vast articles, photos, etc. on the subject at hand).  Finally, if batting back-to-back with Paul Konerko, Williams may have put together one of the finest Righty-Lefty 1-2 punches in the American League in recent memory.  Although I have gone on record as saying I don't think you'll see both Thome and Konerko on the same roster, those two paired together would be an absolute nightmare on opposing pitchers.  Oh, by the way, the White Sox will be paying roughy $7M per for Thome.  Nice, huh?

 

Two more areas to consider--bear with me .  Let's quickly examine what we are losing.

 

Aaron Rowand: What can be said of Aaron that hasn't already been touched upon?  We are losing one of the most prominent faces of a Championship roster...anytime you lose that, it is going to sting.  While Aaron has yet to prove to me he can produce offensively on a consistant basis, you know what you're getting from a fielding standpoint day-in-and-day-out.  Aaron was an absolute joy to watch roaming center-field, deserving a Gold Glove.  What can make you get over such a collosal lose?  How about a 40+HR campaign from the left-side?  That might help.

 

"The Prospects": Not even going to pretend to know a great deal about these two.  In all honesty, the only reason I'm somewhat familiar with these two is due in large part to the efforts of Jason, Rex, Rich, etc. that do such a good job keeping us abreast of our prospects.  But, something I am very confident in saying, is I firmly believe in the trading of prospects if it does not deplete the system.  "Jermey Reed!?!?  How the hell is Williams trading Reed!?  That kid is pefect for this team...he represents something we have not had in a long, long time."  Does Jeremy Reed have a ring on his finger?  He might...but, I promise you it isn't as pretty as the one Freddy Garcia has.

 

Gear up for another exciting season, gang.  I really think Thome is going to endear himself to our largely blue-collar fanbase in no time.  He is really primed for a "comeback" campaign and I think paired with Paul Konerko, those two could put up numbers the likes of which have never been seen on the Southside of Chicago.  Williams just brought this fanbase a Championship after 88 years.  Clearly, the man has a plan.  In the weeks to come, look for Kenny to work hand-in-hand with Guillen to figure out what direction this team is headed.  Is it speed?  Can you possibly improve an already stellar bullpen?  We'll see.  What Guillen wants, Guillen gets.  Ozzie--the annointed King of small-ball--obviously felt the services Jim Thome provides to be a necessity, otherwise, he would not part with his defensive wiz and all-around "grinder" in Rowand.  I'd also like to take the opportunity to say I think if Jerry Owens impresses in Spring Training, you might have found the player to man the fort until the arrival of "King Chris."

 

Happy Thanksgiving, ya'll.  We're going to field a competitive team in 2006 and beyond with Jim Thome on board.  I think we're in for a treat.  Flame if you will.

could be as good as Vlad/Anderson or Ortiz/Ramirez.

[White Sox Josh]

I love this one!

Thome's salaries will be more like this:

 

2006 - $12.5 Million (-7.3 Phils) = Sox Pay $5.2 Million

2007 - $14.0 Million (-7.3 Phils) = Sox Pay $6.7 Million

2008 - $14.0 Million (-7.3 Phils) = Sox Pay $6.7 Million

wow for a guy who could hit 40 HR. That is a steal in terms of money. Great trade by KW and the Phillies won't be sad. Aaron will be a productive player for years to come for them.

[SSH2005]

I love this one!

Thome's salaries will be more like this:

 

2006 - $12.5 Million (-7.3 Phils) = Sox Pay $5.2 Million

2007 - $14.0 Million (-7.3 Phils) = Sox Pay $6.7 Million

2008 - $14.0 Million (-7.3 Phils) = Sox Pay $6.7 Million

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...t=.jsp&c_id=cws

The White Sox also will pay $24 million of the remaining $46 million on Thome's contract over the next three years

In your scenario, the Sox would only pay a total of $18.6 million for Thome. The Sox are also paying for $2 million of Thome's signing bonus due in 2006 and they would also have to pick up his $3 million buyout in 2009. Otherwise, Thome has a $13 million team option for 2009. That brings the total to $24.1 million paid by the Sox. Here are Thome's contract details:

 

Jim Thome: 6-Year worth 85M- will make in 2003- 9.5M + 10M singing bonus, in 2004- 10.5M, in 2005- 11.5M, in 2006- 12.5M (+ 2.5M of the 10M signing bonus), and in 2007 and 2008- 14M and in 2009- Team option worth 13M or 3M buyout- + received 50K for 2004 All-Star- + he has a complete NO-TRADE clause- + the 2009 option can become guaranteed with a certain number of PA Agent: Pat Rooney Service Time: 12.042

Edited November 24, 2005 by SSH2005

[RME JICO]

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...t=.jsp&c_id=cws

In your scenario, the Sox would only pay a total of $18.6 million for Thome.  The Sox are also paying for $2 million of Thome's signing bonus due in 2006 and they would also have to pick up his $3 million buyout in 2009.  Otherwise, Thome has a $13 million team option for 2009.  That brings the total to $24.1 million paid by the Sox.  Here are Thome's contract details:

 

The signing bonuses are not included in the actual player salaries, so I did not include that. I also did not include the Buyout in 2009, because I was only looking at the next 3 years. So if you include that $5 million it would bring my total to $23.6 because I rounded off at the first decimal. If I brought it out to the third, it would have been $23.9 or $24 million.

 

Edited November 24, 2005 by WinninUgly

[beck72]

Well said Addison. Happy Thanksgiving