Chisoxfn Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 11:23 AM) When you have the ability...getting the perfect jump is something you can learn. Most people here have said that Anderson gets good jumps, has great speed out there, and has a throwing arm vastly better than Rowand's. That's a good combo to build off of. I totally agree. I just laugh at people that think Anderson is going to come in and win a gold glove. People forget that Chicago (US Cell) is supposed to be one of the very hardest places to play centerfield. I've heard that numerous times from former major leaguers and its been quoted many places. CF has swirling winds and it makes it a very very tough place to play CF. A lot of people are idiots and its those that are hating on Rowands defense and thinking its easily replaceable (I'm not talking about you Balta, but its something that pisses me off and its so laughable but these people are essentially convincing other people). If you know baseball you know Aaron is one of the premiere defensive CF'ers in the game. He's not Andruw Jones and he's not Torri Hunter...he's possibly at the front of the next class though and is a top 5 defensive outfielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 11:34 AM) You're 100% correct.... If only Rowand had been playing shallower on these two plays A bunch of idiots keep talking about all these plays that dropped in front of em. I'd just ignore em, they are flipping fools who continually show there lack of baseball knowledge . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 01:34 PM) You're 100% correct.... If only Rowand had been playing shallower on these two plays Minerals Management Service? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 Invision sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 01:57 PM) I totally agree. I just laugh at people that think Anderson is going to come in and win a gold glove. People forget that Chicago (US Cell) is supposed to be one of the very hardest places to play centerfield. I've heard that numerous times from former major leaguers and its been quoted many places. CF has swirling winds and it makes it a very very tough place to play CF. A lot of people are idiots and its those that are hating on Rowands defense and thinking its easily replaceable (I'm not talking about you Balta, but its something that pisses me off and its so laughable but these people are essentially convincing other people). If you know baseball you know Aaron is one of the premiere defensive CF'ers in the game. He's not Andruw Jones and he's not Torri Hunter...he's possibly at the front of the next class though and is a top 5 defensive outfielder. I'd say he's not Mark Kotsay or Vernon Wells either. He's in line with Jeremy Reed and Jim Edmonds. I'm not saying Rowand sucks or anything, but Anderson does have better tools defensively than Rowand. A lot of people are idiots for thinking that Rowand is so damn great defensively and can't be replaced...yadda yadda yadda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 12:02 PM) I'd say he's not Mark Kotsay or Vernon Wells either. He's in line with Jeremy Reed and Jim Edmonds. I'm not saying Rowand sucks or anything, but Anderson does have better tools defensively than Rowand. A lot of people are idiots for thinking that Rowand is so damn great defensively and can't be replaced...yadda yadda yadda. I can name a bunch of people with better tools. Facts are facts and Aaron is one of the best defensive centerfielders out there. The only one that I'd possibly say is better than Aaron (outside of Hunter and Jones) is a healthy Mike Cameron. Kotsay is pretty good but I'd say him and Aaron are so similar, but I give Aaron the heads up because he plays at a tougher park to play CF. Vernon Wells = Laughable. His laziness gets in the way. I didn't say his defense can't be replaced. A certain poster (YOU) said that Anderson is better than Rowand defensively. That is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. Get a clue. I'm all for debating, but this is something that can't be debated cause its so laughable. Have I ever said Anderson doesn't have good tools? Nope, don't recall ever saying that. I haven't even said Aaron is'nt replaceable, but Anderson will not be as good as Aaron Rowand defensively this year (he will make some really nice plays in the OF though and will be a good defensive CFer). I've long said that Anderson's upside is Torri Hunter (both offensively and defensively). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 02:04 PM) I can name a bunch of people with better tools. Facts are facts and Aaron is one of the best defensive centerfielders out there. The only one that I'd possibly say is better than Aaron (outside of Hunter and Jones) is a healthy Mike Cameron. Kotsay is pretty good but I'd say him and Aaron are so similar, but I give Aaron the heads up because he plays at a tougher park to play CF. Vernon Wells = Laughable. His laziness gets in the way. Kotsay played in the spacious Oakland OF. I'd say he's better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 12:08 PM) Kotsay played in the spacious Oakland OF. I'd say he's better. No...size has nothing to do with tougher place to play (at least not if you have good range). Getting good reads on the ball in US Cellular is way tougher. When it comes to going and getting balls in a big park, Aaron has long shown there isn't a guy better than him at it (outside of Jones and Hunter). Aaron can flat get jumps and go get em. He showed that in New York (a very very spacious CF). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 02:10 PM) No...size has nothing to do with tougher place to play (at least not if you have good range). Getting good reads on the ball in US Cellular is way tougher. When it comes to going and getting balls in a big park, Aaron has long shown there isn't a guy better than him at it (outside of Jones and Hunter). Aaron can flat get jumps and go get em. He showed that in New York (a very very spacious CF). Size has a lot to do with how tough it is defensively to get a read on the ball. Put Aaron in Oakland and he doesn't get to as much balls as he did last year. Put Kotsay in CF for the White Sox last year and I'd say he gets to as much if not more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 I have to agree ChiSoxfn... Which is why I shudder at everyone who says to throw Juan Pierre out there... That being said I think Anderson will be at least decent in CF this year defensively... But he won't be Rowand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 12:12 PM) Size has a lot to do with how tough it is defensively to get a read on the ball. Put Aaron in Oakland and he doesn't get to as much balls as he did last year. Put Kotsay in CF for the White Sox last year and I'd say he gets to as much if not more. Size doesn't have anything to do with getting a read. Playing nooks and crannies of your park, that deals with knowing the field and how the balls bounce. Getting a read is getting a read, big part or small. Now when your having to factor swirling winds into the park, that effects how well you can get reads. You know a park is huge, you still get your read and have to go get the ball. Whether its going to stay in the park or not, you have your read. Are you positioned different in a huge cavernous outfield...sure, but that doesn't effect your read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 08:12 PM) Size has a lot to do with how tough it is defensively to get a read on the ball. Put Aaron in Oakland and he doesn't get to as much balls as he did last year. Put Kotsay in CF for the White Sox last year and I'd say he gets to as much if not more. What are you basing this on? Kotsay is good in CF, but ranked well behind Rowand in Zone Rating (used as a % of balls gotten to, rather than RF, which is based upon opportunities), Rate2, and Fielding Win Shares. Really, all you have is your "opinion" backing you that Kotsay is/was better defensively than Rowand (or equal). You want to know how stupid those numbers look? I think they just took an average of his 2004 numbers along with his 2005 numbers. I'm 99% sure that's not how they come up with that figure. He had only 193 ABs last year -- certainly not enough to put much stock in. They take his injury into consideration, and what type of player he is -- but it's not just an average of the past two years. Edited November 25, 2005 by CWSGuy406 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 12:25 PM) What are you basing this on? Kotsay is good in CF, but ranked well behind Rowand in Zone Rating (used as a % of balls gotten to, rather than RF, which is based upon opportunities), Rate2, and Fielding Win Shares. Really, all you have is your "opinion" backing you that Kotsay is/was better defensively than Rowand (or equal). I'm just sick of seeing people continously knock Rowand and say he lets a million balls fall in front of him Keith. Of course he has nothing to base this on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 08:16 PM) I have to agree ChiSoxfn... Which is why I shudder at everyone who says to throw Juan Pierre out there... That being said I think Anderson will be at least decent in CF this year defensively... But he won't be Rowand... oh i think he'll be more than decend...if rowand was extraordinary, then brian anderson with his better arm can be more than Decent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 02:02 PM) I'd say he's not Mark Kotsay or Vernon Wells either. He's in line with Jeremy Reed and Jim Edmonds. I'm not saying Rowand sucks or anything, but Anderson does have better tools defensively than Rowand. A lot of people are idiots for thinking that Rowand is so damn great defensively and can't be replaced...yadda yadda yadda. Jim Edmonds isn't even close to Aaron defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 02:19 PM) Size doesn't have anything to do with getting a read. Playing nooks and crannies of your park, that deals with knowing the field and how the balls bounce. Getting a read is getting a read, big part or small. Now when your having to factor swirling winds into the park, that effects how well you can get reads. You know a park is huge, you still get your read and have to go get the ball. Whether its going to stay in the park or not, you have your read. Are you positioned different in a huge cavernous outfield...sure, but that doesn't effect your read. The wind at the Cell doesn't swirl anymore. It hasn't for two years. It goes straight out which is why the park has become a HR hitters ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 02:30 PM) Jim Edmonds isn't even close to Aaron defensively. I'd say he is. They're both the same type of guys. Don't rely on speed, but rather on great jumps they get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 nite...how many times have you seen Brian Anderson play centerfield? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 02:30 PM) I'd say he is. They're both the same type of guys. Don't rely on speed, but rather on great jumps they get. Edmonds gets horrible jumps most of the time, he takes horrible routes to the ball and just makes diving, rolling web gems to get on sportscenter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 12:30 PM) The wind at the Cell doesn't swirl anymore. It hasn't for two years. It goes straight out which is why the park has become a HR hitters ballpark. Are you playing in CF. They still talk about winds swirling out there. There aren't many balls hit out to dead center. Usually the additional hr's have came from the short LF porch. Thats not saying the renovation changed the winds some, but I have still heard the same things about the wind since the renovations (specifically in CF). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 02:33 PM) Are you playing in CF. They still talk about winds swirling out there. There aren't many balls hit out to dead center. Usually the additional hr's have came from the short LF porch. Thats not saying the renovation changed the winds some, but I have still heard the same things about the wind since the renovations (specifically in CF). USCF made Andruw Jones look like an idiot in 04, I think that's all anyone needs to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 12:35 PM) USCF made Andruw Jones look like an idiot in 04, I think that's all anyone needs to know. Nah nah, there is no wind in Chicago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy! Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 ask yourselves this question: if you just won the WS with a bunch of guys that rolled thru the division and then went 11-1 in the playoffs DO YOU NEED TO GET RID OF ANYONE THAT WAS AN INTEGRAL PART? Part of your equation, of course, would be that the GM's in both leagues swore not to change a single thing about their teams for 2006, either, right? Oops. Sorry, I'd still expect the Sox organization to keep trying to improve. And this was a substantial improvement, from all we can tell so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 02:36 PM) Nah nah, there is no wind in Chicago The wind blows straight out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 12:37 PM) The wind blows straight out. Not in center. What your saying is dead wrong. CF still has swirling winds. Hell, send Hawk an email, maybe than you'd listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.