Poll: Do you like the Rowand for Thome deal?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Also, IF we can keep Paulie and have Thome DH everyday (which IMO means he DEFINITELY stays healthy) I think this is a REALLY REALLY good trade.

 

That's the only way it's a good trade.

[Balta1701]

That's the only way it's a good trade.

Well, it's a good trade anyway if we lose Paulie as long as Thome stays healthy, since we'll have a big bat to plug into the center of our lineup...as long as someone like Gload takes over the day to day chores at 1b so Thome doesn't get hurt.

[RME JICO]

I don't see this as a replacement for Paulie compared to an upgrade at DH and a Lefty bat. If Paulie doesn't resign, then the Sox will still try to fill that void with someone outside the organization. Otherwise it would be Dye at 1B and the Sox would pick up another OF to play RF.

[Dick Allen]

I like it. Its worth a shot. The Sox top prospects are OF's and Rowand who was great in 2004, wasn't much more than average this championship season. Even defensively where he is given so much credit, I thought with the exception of about a two week period, which included their trip to NY, he had regressed. He wasn't getting very good jumps and Ozzie was pissed with his habit of playing too deep. His throwing was very erratic. That said, what's to say he won't go back to his 2004 form both at the plate and in the field? The Sox have to start making room for their top prospects if they aren't going to deal them, so moving Rowand makes a lot of sense. Thome is a gamble, a huge gamble, but if he's healthy, they have him for a huge discount.

[RME JICO]

I like it. Its worth a shot. The Sox top prospects are OF's and Rowand who was great in 2004, wasn't much more than average this championship season. Even defensively where he is given so much credit, I thought with the exception of about a two week period, which included their trip to NY, he had regressed. He wasn't getting very good jumps and Ozzie was pissed with his habit of playing too deep. His throwing was very erratic. That said, what's to say he won't go back to his 2004 form both at the plate and in the field? The Sox have to start making room for their top prospects if they aren't going to deal them, so moving Rowand makes a lot of sense. Thome is a gamble, a huge gamble, but if he's healthy, they have him for a huge discount.

I completely agree. I also think Aaron unfortunately has some below average baserunning skills. He had a couple of brain farts in the post season and was bailed out by guys later in the order. Besides his hitting with 2 strikes, I think his baserunning was his next worst skill.

[FlaCWS]

Are you really arguing that we don't need offense, that pitching and defense are enough?  How many games are we gonna win if we play only that side of the game? 

 

Absolutely not. But Thome is on the downside of his career and strikes out way too much for my taste. On top of that he is below-average defensively. If this was 3-4 years ago, maybe.

 

Also, how does this affect payroll? I'd rather see them spend money to keep Konerko or wrap up Buehrle or Garland long-term. If those things don't happen because we spent money on Thome, that will suck.

[KevHead0881]

Absolutely not. But Thome is on the downside of his career and strikes out way too much for my taste. On top of that he is below-average defensively. If this was 3-4 years ago, maybe.

 

Also, how does this affect payroll? I'd rather see them spend money to keep Konerko or wrap up Buehrle or Garland long-term. If those things don't happen because we spent money on Thome, that will suck.

 

First of all, if all works to plan, he'll be playing mostly DH. Secondly, don't focus so hard on the K's. Turn your attention to his average walk totals and OBP's, two areas which were less than impressive last season....

 

Jim Thome - Career Stats

[bulokis]

I would like this deal if Paulie is back and we have Thome-Konerko in our lineup. I dont know why Gio is the PTBNL, I thought PTBNL were not top prospects.

[ZoomSlowik]

I like this quite a bit. I can live with Anderson when you are adding a major stick like Thome. I've heard that his elbow isn't that big a concern if he doesn't have to play first, which is good for us. I just don't know how you can pass on this opportunity at less than $8 mil a year. There's a good chance he out-produces Konerko, who'll obviously make a lot more than that, and when you consider Anderson replaces Rowand, our payroll only goes up like $4 mil this year.

Edited November 24, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[RME JICO]

I like this quite a bit. I can live with Anderson when you are adding a major stick like Thome. I've heard that his elbow isn't that big a concern if he doesn't have to play first, which is good for us. I just don't know how you can pass on this opportunity at less than $8 mil a year. There's a good chance he out-produces Konerko, who'll obviously make a lot more than that, and when you consider Anderson replaces Rowand, our payroll only goes up like $4 mil this year.

If all we did is pick up Thome and re-sign Paulie at the 4 for 52, then the Sox would be under last years numbers, with those moves only:

 

Thome's contract:

2006 - $12.5 Million (-7.3 Phils) $5.2 Million

2007 - $14.0 Million (-7.3 Phils) $6.7 Million

2008 - $14.0 Million (-7.3 Phils) $6.7 Million

 

Savings in 2006 from lost salaries:

Frank Thomas - $8 million

Carl Everett - $4 million

Aaron Rowand - $3.25 million

 

Total - $15.25 million

 

2006 Costs

 

Jim Thome $5.2 million

Frank Thomas buyout $3.5 million

Carl Everett buyout $0.5 million

 

Total $9.2 million

 

Available money from moves - $6.05 million

 

Paulie's last salary: $8.75 million

Estimated salary: $12.0 million

Difference: $3.25 million

 

Remaining cash: $2.80 million

[Allsox]

i hope disgusting was a good term cause thome is a stud

 

No, no, I definitely meant it in a good way!

[whitesoxmanager]

Why do it? Why make this trade? We just won the WS with this team.

 

I say bring em back and do it again! I would rather sign both PK & BigF and have kept Arow.

 

THIS TRADE BLOWS! My gut says KW made a mistake. I understand what he is trying to do but still THIS TRADE SUCKSBALLS!

[AngelasDaddy0427]

I absolutely love this deal on two conditions...

A) Juan "Pods black twin brother" Peirre stays as far away from the White Sox as possible...

 

and

 

B) Brian Anderson is allowed to adjust to CF the full year no matter what he does offensively (because he'll be the closest thing we have to a Rowand defensively).

[DBAHO]

I'm on the fence. Of course it comes down to what Thome does offensively for the next 3 years. Is he going to get back to that previous form? How much will he regress by the end of his deal?

 

I don't like giving up BOTH Gio and Haigwood though. I would have preferred to try and used Ray Liotta in there and keep one of Gio or Dan, but I'm guessin KW probably tried that and was shot down by Gillick.

 

But I think Philly did very well out of this. Realistically, this was only a 2 team race, and maybe the Sox should have waited a bit, but there are so many other factors to consider (e.g Frank and Paulie contract's etc.), that probably brought this to fruition today.

[SSH2005]

I believe Thome is washed-up. But I also believe that Rowand isn't going to ever match his 2004 offensive numbers. So I see this as kind of a wash.

 

If Gio lights up the National League, then I think this will go down as a fairly bad trade. But I think he's too injury-prone to do that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you ever said a positive thing about the White Sox? You amaze me with your negativity.

[SSH2005]

Absolutely not. But Thome is on the downside of his career and strikes out way too much for my taste. On top of that he is below-average defensively. If this was 3-4 years ago, maybe.

 

Also, how does this affect payroll? I'd rather see them spend money to keep Konerko or wrap up Buehrle or Garland long-term. If those things don't happen because we spent money on Thome, that will suck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who cares if he strikes out a lot? An out is an out and Thome will still get on base more than anyone else on our team. The only guy who could match Thome is a healthy Frank Thomas.

Edited November 24, 2005 by SSH2005

[yakyusox]

I voted yes....I'll miss A-Row's defense and personality but seeing as Thome absolutely destroyed the Sox, it'll be very nice to seem him crush other teams in a Sox uni....

 

I also think Kenny isn't done trading....If he can get Juan Pierre from FL for cheap (And Lord knows a bag of balls would do the trick nowadays for FL) the lineup would be very interesting if he also resigns Paulie:

Pods LF

Pierre CF

Dye RF

Thome DH

Konerko 1B

Iguchi 2B

Pierzynski C

Crede 3B

Uribe SS

 

If Kenny does sign Paulie back, we may have then seen the last of the Big Hurt 

Then again, if that's what it would take to defend the title, I'm all for it 

Teah, no doubt. I love Frank, but everything he COULD do for us would pale in comparision to what he has already done for us. I'd hate to see him walking around on a cane, or in pain. How can you tell the ultimate gamer not to play? Does Frank got more game? Deep down I think he should rest his DOUBLE injury and... I don't want to say it though.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

For all of you who hate this trade I have some names for you...

Josh Stewart, Felix Diaz, Arnie Munoz.... At one time or another all stud pitchers this site went gaga over...

[qwerty]

For all of you who hate this trade I have some names for you...

Josh Stewart, Felix Diaz, Arnie Munoz.... At one time or another all stud pitchers this site went gaga over...

 

I think you are on crack. In my time being here on this site people never got very excited about any of these three mentioned. Did some people think they could hold down the fifth spot in the rotation for a while? Yes. Did people think they would be apart of our future and be anything more than a fifth starter in a pinch? No.

[DBAHO]

I think you are on crack. In my time being here on this site people never got very excited about any of these three mentioned. Did some people think they could hold down the fifth spot in the rotation for a while? Yes. Did people think they would be apart of our future and be anything more than a fifth starter in a pinch? No.

Thank you. Gonzalez especially and Haigwood are quality prospects. When were Josh Stewart, Felix Diaz and Arnie Munoz ever that?

 

Sure Munoz has the stuff to make it in a major league pen (even though it probably won't be here). And who was going gaga over those 3? Last time I checked, Felix Diaz was referred to as Tee-Ball for the way hitters lit him up in the big leagues.

[YASNY]

Thank you. Gonzalez especially and Haigwood are quality prospects. When were Josh Stewart, Felix Diaz and Arnie Munoz ever that?

 

Sure Munoz has the stuff to make it in a major league pen (even though it probably won't be here). And who was going gaga over those 3? Last time I checked, Felix Diaz was referred to as Tee-Ball for the way hitters lit him up in the big leagues.

 

You have to go a back a bit farther in time than that. Prior to the ML appearances, Diaz and Munuz were very highly thought of around here.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

Ohh please, for about a week before they started everyone here was creaming their pants over all of them... Especially when Felix dominated AAA that year... Then after he didn't perform that first week everyone turned on him... Which was made sillier because if you take out him being jerked around he had a solid stretch... 3 decent starts and some pen work... Of course when BMAC did the exact same thing he became the messiah...

 

Anyway the point is neither of these guys has like a 100 MPH fastball... and from what I read the one can't stay healthy... I don't get why everyone is so freaken broken up over these guys... I wish I could share your amnesia though but after bust and bust I refuse to get excited over overhyped pitching anymore... or anyone for that matter... Just like Anderson... I have already resigned myself that Anderson isn't going to hit higher the .240 next season... However thats ok as long as Thome performs like I think he will... and he plays defense even half as well as advertised... or as I saw in spring training last year... However you can't misunderstand that as not wanting him to do better... If he hits .300, great! However it makes things alot easier... Because when most of the Anderson backers are bashing him as never being any more then a 4th outfielder (and they will if he starts out slow). I guess the point i'm trying to make is I just can't bring myself to get excited over these prospects... I think he'll do good enough... I think he'd save this team this the torture of Pierre allowing run after run off of bad defense... But I refuse to get myself hyped up for another superstar...

[DBAHO]

You have to go a back a bit farther in time than that.  Prior to the ML appearances, Diaz and Munuz were very highly thought of around here.

Munoz was as a relief pitcher, but he still struggled in the high areas of the minors (besides early 2004 in B-Ham). Diaz had 1 good season in AAA and that was it. I rate Gio and Dan higher than those 2, and I'm sure pretty much all of the minor league gurus would as well.

 

Haigwood's season this year was a lot like B-Mac's in 2004, and Brandon himself has said Dan's got the best stuff out of any minor league pitcher in the organization. And Gio being in high A already and still doing quite well (especially those K/BB ratios) is another good sign.

[YASNY]

Munoz was as a relief pitcher, but he still struggled in the high areas of the minors (besides early 2004 in B-Ham). Diaz had 1 good season in AAA and that was it. I rate Gio and Dan higher than those 2, and I'm sure pretty much all of the minor league gurus would as well.

 

Haigwood's season this year was a lot like B-Mac's in 2004, and Brandon himself has said Dan's got the best stuff out of any minor league pitcher in the organization. And Gio being in high A already and still doing quite well (especially those K/BB ratios) is another good sign.

 

I know what they were, and what they are. I also know that they were as highly regarded around here as these two we traded today, if not more so.

[DBAHO]

Of course when BMAC did the exact same thing he became the messiah...

Now let's have a look at B-Mac. He struggled when he first came up, and the vast MAJORITY of people here on Soxtalk gave up on him. Said he was never going to amount to anything. And yet, the Sox sent him down to AAA, got him workin on his change, and he came back up and everyone loved him again.

 

See prospects can actually contribute in the majors. You just need patience. B-Mac has shown that.

 

Gio and his injury history, well he's a lot like Barry Zito in terms of stuff and build etc., and Zito came out alright didn't he.

 

And we'll see on Anderson. You've already said he's already proven to be nothing special. But like I said above, Sox fans need to have PATIENCE with him. Aaron Rowand didn't first come up and contribute fantastic numbers did he.