Can you guys tell me about Gonzalez and Haigwood?

[Hey_Look_Its_Chase_Utley!]

Phillies fan here. Congrats on the World Series victory, and getting on the classiest guys in baseball. I really think Thome was a great pickup for you guys, and is much better of where he can DH instead of playing 1B every day. What can you tell me about the prospects the Phillies reportedly received.

[Felix]

They are crap. Get rid of them.

 

 

 

(green is sarcasm)

[knightni]

Phillies fan here. Congrats on the World Series victory, and getting on the classiest guys in baseball. I really think Thome was a great pickup for you guys, and is much better of where he can DH instead of playing 1B every day. What can you tell me about the prospects the Phillies reportedly received.

I'd go with checking out the futuresox thread area.

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showforum=18

[RME JICO]

Gio has more upside and is probably a year away from coming up. I don't know how that will translate to the NL though.

[hi8is]

gonzales has a plus arm with tons of potential... i like haigwood better myself... i project him to be a 15 game winner in the majors in 2008

[Heads22]

Shameless link drop:

 

http://www.futuresox.com/modules.php?name=...article&sid=241

[jackie hayes]

Gio has more upside and is probably a year away from coming up.  I don't know how that will translate to the NL though.

More than a year, I thought. He hasn't pitched beyond A-ball -- right???

[daa84]

Gio has more upside and is probably a year away from coming up.  I don't know how that will translate to the NL though.

Here are my feelings...

Haigwood was a relative unknown entering the season...a long shot prospect. he put up good numbers at high A earned a promotion to AA where he was hot hot hot. left handed, medium build, soft thrower 89-91, good breaking pitches, decent change up, good feel for pitching. He definintely needs to prove he can do it again at AAA before i would call him a top prospect.

 

Gonzalez - alot of scouts say hes one of the most underrated prospects in the game. one of the best curveballs from the 04 draft. was projected as a 1st round pick out of high school but he fell to the supplemental round because he sat out most of his senior year after a fight with his coach about his brothers playing time. Hes skinny, but young (20) so some feel he'll get bigger. he doesnt blow hitters away but can run his fastball to 93, with his big tight overhand curve, and a developing change. Make up is an issue as is health, as he hasnt had the best record of staying healthy. he has had great K:IP ratios, is still very young, and is lefthanded, so a good prospect.

 

Two nice lefties to slide behind cole hammels in the philly organization. At best for the two, Gonzalez if he stays healthy will be be an above average big league starter IMO and haigwood still has to prove that the second half of 05 was no mirage, and then id project him as a #3-5 starter

Edited November 23, 2005 by daa84

[Chisoxfn]

Phillies fan here. Congrats on the World Series victory, and getting on the classiest guys in baseball. I really think Thome was a great pickup for you guys, and is much better of where he can DH instead of playing 1B every day. What can you tell me about the prospects the Phillies reportedly received.

You got yourself two good prospects. Despit what BA and other sources will say, my personal take is that Haigwood is the better of the two.

 

Gio has better stuff, but has a frail makeup and I have questions about his long term durability. That said, if he stays healthy he's a very polished young lefty who has one of the better curves in the minors. He also mixes in an improving changeup (which will need to get better) and a 4 seam and 2seam/cut fastball. Not a lot of juice but he knows how to pitch and mixes his spots well. I think he also throws a slider, but his bread and butter is the curve mixed with locating his spots.

 

I'd say his upside would be that of Barry Zito (think big hook). Problem is he puts a lot of pressure on his narrow frame and has had some durability issues already (no serious arm issues though). He along with Haigwood are top 5 prospects in our organization though.

 

Haigwood is a little more ready. He dominated AA late last season and last year was him at 100%. The prior year he was still recovering from a knee/leg injury that kept him out for the entire 2003 season. Haigwood is a good pitcher with not the greatest stuff but he has a very good change-up, works fast, knows how to mix his pitches in (uses the plate well) and flat out gets the job done.

 

I really like what Haigwood can do and I think you got yourself a major leaguer. He'll never be an ace, but I could see him being at best a good #2 and at worse a serviceable 4th or 5th guy (barring injury).

[Hey_Look_Its_Chase_Utley!]

Thanks alot everyone. Also, I love the Futuresox.com website, very well done.

[Chisoxfn]

Here are my feelings...

Haigwood was a relative unknown entering the season...a long shot prospect. he put up good numbers at high A earned a promotion to AA where he was hot hot hot. left handed, medium build, soft thrower 89-91, good breaking pitches, decent change up, good feel for pitching. He definintely needs to prove he can do it again at AAA before i would call him a top prospect.

 

Gonzalez - alot of scouts say hes one of the most underrated prospects in the game. one of the best curveballs from the 04 draft. was projected as a 1st round pick out of high school but he fell to the supplemental round because he sat out most of his senior year after a fight with his coach about his brothers playing time. Hes skinny, but young (20) so some feel he'll get bigger. he doesnt blow hitters away but can run his fastball to 93, with his big tight overhand curve, and a developing change. Make up is an issue as is health, as he hasnt had the best record of staying healthy. he has had great K:IP ratios, is still very young, and is lefthanded, so a good prospect.

 

Two nice lefties to slide behind cole hammels in the philly organization. At best for the two, Gonzalez if he stays healthy will be be an above average big league starter IMO and haigwood still has to prove that the second half of 05 was no mirage, and then id project him as a #3-5 starter

I just want to point out Haigwood was one of the better young arms in the Sox system prior to missing the entire 03 or 04 season with an injury. He also was a steal in the draft because many people thought he was going to play college ball (I think Michigan). Very good feel for pitching.

[HoosierSox]

From your description of Haigwood Chisoxfn he sounds a lot like Buerhle. Unknown lefty soft tosser who works fast and gets the job done. I hope we didnt just give up another Buerhle.

[Heads22]

Thanks alot everyone. Also, I love the Futuresox.com website, very well done.

 

 

Thank you.

[knightni]

Thank you.

I need to make a new banner for the place.

[Chisoxfn]

From your description of Haigwood Chisoxfn he sounds a lot like Buerhle. Unknown lefty soft tosser who works fast and gets the job done. I hope we didnt just give up another Buerhle.

He is a good one. He was probably the best starter in our system. That said our system is pretty thin right now when it comes to pitching (especially with Gio and Haig on the way out). Of course if Lummy can get healthy (he has the best pure stuff, imo) and Braodway can continue to develop (along with Tracey making some strides with his control) we could have some viable replacements (plus Liotta).

 

I do expect the Sox to go heavy on pitching this up-coming draft.

[Chisoxfn]

I need to make a new banner for the place.

That would be sweet

[daa84]

That would be sweet

as an aside....did gio gonzalez remind anyone else of arnie munoz? thats the comparison i cant get out of my head when referring to sox minor leaguers

[Chisoxfn]

as an aside....did gio gonzalez remind anyone else of arnie munoz? thats the comparison i cant get out of my head when referring to sox minor leaguers

Well Arnie long had some hype when it came to his curve. His status has long died, although he's still quite young and capable (not as a starter). Similar builds, but Gio is far superior.

[GS1]

You guys will love Thome. I, for one, will miss him in Philly. I made the one+ hour trip from Lititz, PA - yeah, where all the wild sh*t is going on right now - many times a year to watch this guy crack 'em. Do not be surprised if he still has 48-52 a year in him for you.

[Chisoxfn]

You guys will love Thome.  I, for one, will miss him in Philly.  I made the one+ hour trip from Lititz, PA - yeah, where all the wild sh*t is going on right now - many times a year to watch this guy crack 'em.  Do not be surprised if he still has 48-52 a year in him for you.

As much as I think we'll all love Thome. I think Aaron is the type of player that we are all sad to go. With that said, you know you guys are getting a great all around guy and a solid all around player. He's signed to a cheap deal and his defense is just a thing of beauty.

[GS1]

As much as I think we'll all love Thome.  I think Aaron is the type of player that we are all sad to go.  With that said, you know you guys are getting a great all around guy and a solid all around player.  He's signed to a cheap deal and his defense is just a thing of beauty.

 

We have an up and comer at Reading, Michael Bourn, who may be the best defensive Cfer the Phillies will have had since Garry Maddox, who was g-o-o-d! Problem is whether or not Bourn will ever hit above AA.

[Chisoxfn]

We have an up and comer at Reading, Michael Bourn, who may be the best defensive Cfer the Phillies will have had since Garry Maddox, who was g-o-o-d!  Problem is whether or not Bourn will ever hit above AA.

The main reason Rowand was on the block was because the Sox have two guys that can go get it in center. Brian Anderson who is basically a more toolsy version of Aaron and Chris Young. Young is a raw player but he can absolutely hammer the ball. He has one of those live bats. Problem is he has a bigger "bust factor" but if he booms he has a shot to be one of the best in the biz (best guy to play in Bham since Maggs and had he not been hurt for a few weeks he'd have set some Bham records IIRC).

 

As far as that CFer goes, hopefully he has some speed. If he's light hitting, but can learn to slap the ball and bunt and do other things he may have himself a pretty good opportunity. Baseball is going back to the old school basics of pitching, defense, speed at the top and power.

 

But power isn't the focus it once was, nor is OBP or OPS (not as much as it was in recent years, imo). I think people are realizing there are other things to look at than just stats (specifically defense was way undervalued as was a guy that can create on the paths because he doesn't just get xtra bases, he helps the batter thats up, since that hitter would see more fastballs).

[GS1]

Rumors in Philly are that Rowand may not be here long. The Yankees may want him, and there is talk of a swap for Pavano.

[Chisoxfn]

Rumors in Philly are that Rowand may not be here long.  The Yankees may want him, and there is talk of a swap for Pavano.

That would make some sense. I know you guys wanted a CFer. I remember seeing something about a Vernon Wells for Abreu swap that was talked around a little bit (dont' know how much truth there was to it).

 

The Yanks do want Rowand badly though. They witnessed what he can do in the field. It was probably one of the most impressive defensive displays in a series (especially because two of the great catches came back to back) that I've ever seen.

[GS1]

That would make some sense.  I know you guys wanted a CFer.  I remember seeing something about a Vernon Wells for Abreu swap that was talked around a little bit (dont' know how much truth there was to it). 

 

The Yanks do want Rowand badly though.  They witnessed what he can do in the field.  It was probably one of the most impressive defensive displays in a series (especially because two of the great catches came back to back) that I've ever seen.

 

Seemed to be quite a bit of truth about Abreu for Wells. I do not really know what happened, other than to speculate that Gillick wanted to check on the value for Abreu.

 

Right now, I think the Phils are inclined to give Victorino a shot, with Michaels (the cop beater) a shot, too, or at least as a competitive b/u. Abreu and/or Burrell will probably be moved.

 

I believe we went from having the world's worst GM (Wade) to the best (Gillick). Gillick is really in charge in a town for a team that needed a sheriff.

 

Somewhere along the line, Gillick is going to get a #1. Trade, FA, whatever, he is on a mission.

 

By the way, congrats on your WS! I had you guys losing your lead late in the season to the Indians and not even making the p/o's. You guys just hammered Cleveland at the end. Makes it even more impressive.

Edited November 24, 2005 by GS1