Prospects for Players

[bmags]

you mention about a trade that is even for both, i would like to see kw get the best of any deal. granted that in the last several yrs has worked out, he still overpaid for them. you can't tell me kw had dye and others in mind when he was making trades. we got lucky.

 

that being said, i will always say that i understood the trade and like the player we got in return with ref to scott and freddy and even thome, but i still think, at the time of the trade, we over paid for it.

 

i think dye and others were exactly what we had in mind...Lee was a salary dump...which is why we didn't get as much in return...I don't need kenny to get the best of any deal, just that every deal he makes works out for us the way its supposed to...if it works out for us than i don't care what the other guy does. I don't care what lee did last year because Pods was so integral for our success this year..

[LDF]

i think dye and others were exactly what we had in mind...Lee was a salary dump...which is why we didn't get as much in return...I don't need kenny to get the best of any deal, just that every deal he makes works out for us the way its supposed to...if it works out for us than i don't care what the other guy does. I don't care what lee did last year because Pods was so integral for our success this year..

 

i agree with what you said on the pods lee trade. but cmon, lets win a trade. it is much easier to deal with the overpayment in the trade, b/c we won the world series.

[AirScott]

gio has been mention as the steal of the draft for the sox and has been highly touted by alot of exec in the baseball world.

yes, I know, and he has pitched great, but he hasn't proven anything yet. and we know what Thome is capable of when healthy. we don't know what Gio's capable of. and we need another bat in the lineup, we weren't exactly a murderer's row this past season.

[LDF]

yes, I know, and he has pitched great, but he hasn't proven anything yet.  and we know what Thome is capable of when healthy.  we don't know what Gio's capable of.  and we need another bat in the lineup, we weren't exactly a murderer's row this past season.

 

our team was not meant to be a murderous row. our team was meant to be for speed. ozzie love speed.

 

mark b and bmac are not power pitcher

[AirScott]

our team was not meant to be a murderous row. our team was meant to be for speed. ozzie love speed.

 

mark b and bmac are not power pitcher

Anderson's supposed to be a solid fielder with a good arm and just a step slower than Rowand. not a huge downgrade. plus there's no speed lost at DH, Carl wasn't exactly a burner. Thome's bat helps the lineup, a team can have both speed and power.

[SSH2005]

Anderson's supposed to be a solid fielder with a good arm and just a step slower than Rowand.  not a huge downgrade.  plus there's no speed lost at DH, Carl wasn't exactly a burner.  Thome's bat helps the lineup, a team can have both speed and power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anderson is faster than Rowand.

[AirScott]

Anderson is faster than Rowand.

helps my case.

[3E8]

Dude, I don't think the market was too high considering Thome said he was only gonna go to a midwest team that had a chance for success.  That would be Cleveland and Chicago.

I didn't say many competitors, I said strong competition. Like someone brought up, if the Indians were willing to part with Crisp and Riske for Thome, that's a nice package of major league talent that would help the Phillies in two of their weakest areas. I think KW had to in turn sweeten our deal, the players we sent over wouldn't have been the same if we were just bidding against ourselves.

[LDF]

helps my case.

 

and what is your case, losing gio or you take on the anderson. \\

 

my discussion was gio and overpaying, and the sox not being a murderous row of a team, which ozzie and kw wanted.

[AirScott]

and what is your case, losing gio or you take on the anderson. \\

 

my discussion was gio and overpaying, and the sox not being a murderous row of a team, which ozzie and kw wanted.

my case is that it's still a good trade, Anderson has speed, which you spoke of. just explain to me how UPGRADING at DH goes against KW and Ozzie's philosphy.

[LDF]

my case is that it's still a good trade, Anderson has speed, which you spoke of.  just explain to me how UPGRADING at DH goes against KW and Ozzie's philosphy.

 

don't put words in my mouth. i never mention that i was against the thome trade. in fact i went out of my way to say that i like the idea of trade for thome. what i said over and over is that we over paid. \

 

 

so tell me where i mention i was not for upgrading????

[AirScott]

and what is your case, losing gio or you take on the anderson. \\

 

my discussion was gio and overpaying, and the sox not being a murderous row of a team, which ozzie and kw wanted.

I guess you may have misinterpreted when I said the Sox "weren't exactly a murderer's row last year." the lineup was weak, and my initial argument was that Thome gives us the bat we need the boost the lineup and giving up two pitching prospects and Rowand isn't a bad deal because the organization is deep in those two areas.

[The Critic]

You have to take it on a case by case basis.

If the deal makes sense, I have no problem with dealing prospects.

To me, the Thome deal is a good gamble. Thome's injury seems to be healed, from all reports, and he's very productive when healthy. A lefty power bat was needed for balance in the lineup, and paying him 7.5 mil per is less than you'd have to pay Brian Giles.

Remember:

Prospects Are Like Suspects - Line 5 Of Them Up and One MIGHT Be "The Guy".

[GIOin08]

i have seen in multiple places that gio is not involved. There is a player to be named later but how do we know this is gio?

[Balta1701]

i have seen in multiple places that gio is not involved.  There is a player to be named later but how do we know this is gio?

There was some doubt at first, but it's Gio.

[GIOin08]

100%? I see it cited as sources say it is him but how do we know there is no contingency on Thome's year long health.

[LDF]

You have to take it on a case by case basis.

If the deal makes sense, I have no problem with dealing prospects.

To me, the Thome deal is a good gamble. Thome's injury seems to be healed, from all reports, and he's very productive when healthy. A lefty power bat was needed for balance in the lineup, and paying him 7.5 mil per is less than you'd have to pay Brian Giles.

Remember:

Prospects Are Like Suspects - Line 5 Of Them Up and One MIGHT Be "The Guy".

 

good post,

 

however, a gamble as you said, is risky in giving up the prospects without getting more in return. i guess it is in what people see is the value of what we gave up. is thome healthy and is he fully recovered, how long can we expect to see him play and still be productive, these are my concerns.

[The Critic]

good post,

 

however, a gamble as you said, is risky in giving up the prospects without getting more in return. i guess it is in what people see is the value of what we gave up. is thome healthy and is he fully recovered, how long can we expect to see him play and still be productive, these are my concerns.

Yep, any gamble is risky.

The Sox brass had to decide if the possible risk is worth the potential reward.

They decided that it is, and I'm not going to disagree at this point.

They've earned a LOT of latitude from me, and that trophy I peeped last Wednesday at City Hall is the reason why.

One line of thinking is that a repeat is the only lateral move for next year, so why not gamble when anything less than a World Series repeat can be considered a less successful season?

[RME JICO]

Most teams that stay put actually get worse because other teams around them get better (KC is the exception).

 

Also, even the best teams in the league have weaknesses or areas they can improve on. The Sox won a ton of games by 2 runs or less, but I am sure for Ozzie's sake that KW wants to make some of those 3-4 run wins compared to the 1 run nail bitters of 2005.

[bmags]

we have won trades, we won the marte trade, we won the Uribe trade, IMO we won the Garcia trade, we definately won the Contreras trade...KW has won a lot of his trades, he's only made 1 abominable one (Ritchie), one bad one (Wells, though due to sirotka being injured and we really lost no one, gained no one...wash i say), and add another one to the win column for Bartolo Colon. The rest were pretty fair (lee, thome, Blum)

[timotime]

ok i will go back to my old argument, kw overpay in trade. granted freddy was a good pickup and i like it, but i thought he over paid with reed. in scott trade, i thought we didn't get enuf of a return, i know that scott was a huge part of our success, but look at the numbers that lee put up.

 

i like the reasoning of getting thome, but did we have to give that much? kw get fixated in players he wants and will sweeten any deal to pull it off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

you are questioning all KW's moves, and we just won a world series. thats why he is the GM and you are a fan.

[The Critic]

we have won trades, we won the marte trade, we won the Uribe trade, IMO we won the Garcia trade, we definately won the Contreras trade...KW has won a lot of his trades, he's only made 1 abominable one (Ritchie), one bad one (Wells, though due to sirotka being injured and we really lost no one, gained no one...wash i say), and add another one to the win column for Bartolo Colon. The rest were pretty fair (lee, thome, Blum)

Even in the trades that KW has "won", he's given the other team someone they wanted, so he's not out to steal players. It's such a crapshoot when you make ANY trade - somebody might get hurt, or struggle in their new surroundings, or sometimes the player "thrown in" to a deal could end up being the marquee player.

I think KW is respected as a GM who honestly WANTS the deal to work for both teams, so the other team will want to deal with him again. I think there are other GMs who only care about who they get, and they can come off as snakes.

[kramer99]

I think sometimes u guys may forget that we werent the only team actively after thome...so Phillie did have some leveridge to pry good prospects from the sox. Im sure the rest of you guys would rather keep the two lefties who have not proven anything and allowed the Indians to pick up a great veteran who can hit 40 homeruns and lead them to a 2006 AL centrak division Championship...

 

Oh and theres no guarentee we will sign Konerko...so without thome our middle of the lineip would be rowand- AJ- DYE...not much of a threat if u ask me!

[LDF]

you are questioning all KW's moves, and we just won a world series. thats why he is the GM and you are a fan.

 

and it is my right to continue to question his moves whether you like it not.

[LDF]

we have won trades, we won the marte trade, we won the Uribe trade, IMO we won the Garcia trade, we definately won the Contreras trade...KW has won a lot of his trades, he's only made 1 abominable one (Ritchie), one bad one (Wells, though due to sirotka being injured and we really lost no one, gained no one...wash i say), and add another one to the win column for Bartolo Colon. The rest were pretty fair (lee, thome, Blum)

 

 

did you forget the royce clayton trade?