Cubs Still not learning

[White Sox Josh]

The only pitcher you can make a case for having over those 2 is Buehrle.....And if he didnt mean so much to this team id take those 2 over him.

 

Ask any non-homer baseball fan or hell major league scout or whatevr and they will tell you the same about Prior/Zambrano.

I will make a bet with anyone on this board that Contreras finishes the 06 season with more wins, IP, better ERA, more Complete Games, and less walks than Zambrano or Prior.

[GoodAsGould]

I will make a bet with anyone on this board that Contreras finishes the 06 season with more wins, IP, better ERA, more Complete Games, and less walks than Zambrano or Prior.

 

What is an online bet worth to me?

[White Sox Josh]

What is an online bet worth to me?

i will make you a sig of Chris Young. A sig bet.

[qwerty]

i will make you a sig of Chris Young.  A sig bet.

 

 

Oooooooh great offer. :rolly

[GoodAsGould]

i will make you a sig of Chris Young.  A sig bet.

 

lol but why would I want that I like my trio of Delmon Young, Felix Pie, and Ryan Sweeney

 

And anyways this is baseball you really cant guarantee anything and a lot can happen in a season and I have never betted on sports and never will.

Edited December 2, 2005 by SoxFan101

[SoxFanForever]

lol but why would I want that I like my trio of Delmon Young, Felix Pie, and Ryan Sweeney 

 

And anyways this is baseball you really cant guarantee anything and a lot can happen in a season and I have never betted on sports and never will.

Did you ever bet on sports though?

[GoodAsGould]

Did you ever bet on sports though?

 

no i edited it to fix it....maybe thats a bit much if its 1 game and im filthy rich and have money to waste ill bet on it .

 

 

Dont get me wrong I love gambling and playing poker but I just feel betting on something you have 0 control over is dumb.

[timotime]

lol but why would I want that I like my trio of Delmon Young, Felix Pie, and Ryan Sweeney 

 

And anyways this is baseball you really cant guarantee anything and a lot can happen in a season and I have never betted on sports and never will.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

ok pete rose

[White Sox Josh]

Did you ever bet on sports though?

20 bucks on the Super Bowl once. I won. Most of the time it's not a lot of money and it is only for special events.

[RockRaines]

lol but why would I want that I like my trio of Delmon Young, Felix Pie, and Ryan Sweeney 

 

And anyways this is baseball you really cant guarantee anything and a lot can happen in a season and I have never betted on sports and never will.

You dont want to get rid of your Cubbie sig huh? :headshake

[GoodAsGould]

You dont want to get rid of your Cubbie sig huh? :headshake

 

my cubbie sig? I have a whitesox player and devil rays player there too if you didnt notice... and another whitesox player in my avatar lol

[ZoomSlowik]

God, I am so sick of these Cubs' rotation versus our rotation arguments, especially when most of the people arguing don't look at it objectively. Outside of this season, what have our guys really done? Okay, Buehrle is a good pitcher and is the most consistent of the group, so we don't need to argue about him. Hernandez and Maddux are both pretty mediocre and old at this point, so let's remove them also. McCarthy is a rookie, so we don't really have enough information to really consider him either. For that reason, let's just deal with Freddy, Jon, and Jose versus Carlos and Mark.

 

Freddy is a talented but inconsistent pitcher. He's posted three seasons with an ERA under 4 in his 6 years (one of them was shortened by injury), winning more than 15 games once in those years, and in two other years finished with more than 15 wins (this is back when Seattle could hit). However, you can also argue that he benefitted from a pitcher friendly park through most of his career. He's a pretty solid bet for over 200 innings and about 14 wins, but it gets dicey past that. He'll benefit in that department from more run support this year. Jon and Jose were complete hacks before this season, meaning who knows what you're going to get from them in the future. Jose was pretty solid early in the year and obviously good in the second half, although his playoff performances were only decent, giving up 3 earned in all but the Boston start. His numbers would have been better if not for a brutal stretch right around the break. His 4.50 plus ERA days seem to be gone, but I don't see him being as dominant as he was in the second half. His playoff outings seem to show that he wasn't quite as sharp as he was to end the season. Jon was brilliant in April and July, not very good in May, brutal in August, and pretty good in June and September. I'm not really sure what that adds up to. Basically he's still an inconsistent starter, but his lows aren't quite as frequent or bad as they used to be. I still wouldn't say that he's reached his potential with any kind of certainty as of yet. Both may be solid next year, but right now we just don't know.

 

On the other hand, Zambrano and Prior are among the most talented pitchers in the league, and haven't underachieved as much as some make us think. Carlos has had 3 years as a full-time starter, and in those years he has posted ERA's of 3.11, 2.75, and 3.26. His win totals were 13, 16, and 14. Considering their frequent scoring problems and their abysmal pen, those win totals are pretty impressive. You can't blame all of the no decisions on Carlos throwing too many pitches too early. He can be inconsistent and run up pitch counts, but he's been their most dependable starting pitcher over the last three years. Basically, I'd say he's a younger, more talented, more consistent Freddy Garcia, who's cheaper on top of all that. He'd definitely be an upgrade to our rotation, and would be #3 behind Mark and Freddy at worst right now, and probably would be #2. Prior has had some injury problems (two of them were because of fluky collisions during the game), but has ranged from pretty good to dominant when healthy. His 2003 season was the most impressive of any of the pitchers on either team, following a pretty impressive debut season. His 2004 was slowed by injuries, but was still not horrible. His ERA was 4.02, and he only lost 4 times in 21 outings. The problem is he also only had 6 wins, meaning he had a whopping 11 no decisions. He had injury problems again this year, but still made 27 starts. On top of that, he overall numbers were pretty good. He finished 11-7 with an ERA of 3.67. He only had one bad start before he got nailed with the liner in Colorado, and had an ERA of 2.93 at that point. After one good start on his return, he got hit a bit, although he was decent to end the season. If he can avoid the fluke injuries like the collision with Giles and the liner off his elbow in Colorado, he should be at worst pretty good.

 

You can say what you want about the AL/NL ERA difference, but Zambrano and Prior are two very talented pitchers that would be an upgrade over our rotation. Jon and Jose aren't even close to being as dependable right now, and the chances that the Cubs' duo outperforms Freddy are pretty good. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are guaranteed to do it, especially since Jon and Jose are major wildcards right now, and Jose has the stuff to be just as dominant if he keeps his s*** together. However, the odds are probably better that Carlos and Prior string together several good years from this point on, and would be much more valuable to our rotation considering their youth and affordable contracts at this point in their careers.

Edited December 2, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[SoxFan562004]

You can go through name by names of the Sox and Cubs rotation or lineup, but when it comes down to it the Sox won the world series and the Cubs haven't. I know it's dumb and simplistic, but that's where it stops for me.

 

Yeah, on paper I would take A-Ram over Crede, but with Crede's defense and his clutch hitting it becomes a lot harder.

[SoxFan1]

Did I miss something or is Ryan Sweeney pitching in that sig???

[Rowand44]

Did I miss something or is Ryan Sweeney pitching in that sig???

He pitched in high school.

[SoxFan1]

He pitched in high school.

Gotcha.

[TLAK]

If they can they should sign Lofton and Furcal.... than if that trade is actually available to the Rangers do it.  Id include Angel Guzman in it if it was neccesary.....

Lofton

Furcal

Dlee

Ramirez

Soriano

Mench

Barrett

Murton

SP

thats a great lineup... they could also trade for Pierre too but both work really.  And while Im not a big fan of Eyre I think Howry is a great RP so they have a nice 8th/9th inning combo with Dempster. And while Wood is crap Prior/Zambrano are both legit aces and Maddux still pretty decent.

For our older readers:

 

Thats a Bing Crosby line up. bum, bum, [DLee], bum, bum, bum, bum bum.

[Soxpranos]

For our older readers:

 

Thats a Bing Crosby line up.  bum, bum, [DLee], bum, bum, bum, bum  bum.

 

[ZoomSlowik]

They are so screwed now that the player they had a man crush on is gone. The best they could do now is like Alex Gonzalez and Jacque Jones unless they decide to overpay for Damon. Looks like a 3rd place type year.

[RockRaines]

my cubbie sig?  I have a whitesox player and devil rays player there too if you didnt notice... and another whitesox player in my avatar lol

so there isnt a cubs player in your sig? Its the same as having, Crede, Gathright, DLEE in your sig. Still a cubs sig.

Edited December 5, 2005 by RockRaines

[Kyyle23]

I just read this post on a Cubs Free Agent board, when I was looking for rumors

 

"So let's say for Prior, Hill, and 3-4 spare parts, you could get Abreu, Myers, and Zito...would you do it?"

 

No!

 

Long story short: 05 'strohs

 

Prior's ceiling could put him on a par with some on last year's Houston staff.

 

Wow, you could get a 5 tool player(Abreu), a former Cy Young winner who is still under 30(Zito) and Mike Myers to relieve, for Mark Prior, a minor league pitcher(Rich Hill), and 3-4 spare parts(I am assuming he means minor leaguers or utility players), and this guy thinks it is a bad trade because of Priors potential? Thats just ridiculous.

 

 

I found this post too, and I laughed my ass off at the Dave Wannstedt reference

 

 

That report is kinda like Dave Wannstedt's face.  Good side, bad side. 

 

We won't get Soriano.  Yay!!!!

 

We won't get B Wilkerson.  Boo!!!!!!

 

P. S.  Soriano unhappily to OF and even more unhappily trying to put up #'s in RFK.  This will not go well.  Always a shame when this stuff happens to another NL team! 

[sircaffey]

I just read this post on a Cubs Free Agent board, when I was looking for rumors

Wow, you could get a 5 tool player(Abreu), a former Cy Young winner who is still under 30(Zito) and Mike Myers to relieve, for Mark Prior, a minor league pitcher(Rich Hill), and 3-4 spare parts(I am assuming he means minor leaguers or utility players), and this guy thinks it is a bad trade because of Priors potential?  Thats just ridiculous. 

I found this post too, and I laughed my ass off at the Dave Wannstedt reference

 

Was that Mike Myers or Bret Myers? Hopefully the first. If not, then they have serious issues.

[Kyyle23]

Was that Mike Myers or Bret Myers?  Hopefully the first.  If not, then they have serious issues.

 

Actually you are correct, and I was way off. Bret Myers, Abreu, and Zito for Prior, Hill, and 3-4 throw-ins. Obviously this was a hypothetical 3 way trade, but jeez, thats a whole lot of overvalue-ing Prior right there. Thats one starter who went 14-13 with a 3.86 ERA who is a former Cy Young, another starter who was 13-8 with a 3.72 ERA(Myers) and Bobby Abreu, who is just a pimp. And Prior would hold up this deal for Cubs fans? Wow.

[AnthraxFan93]

Was that Mike Myers or Bret Myers?  Hopefully the first.  If not, then they have serious issues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Mike..

 

What you expect.. Most Cubs fans tell me that They have the better pitching staff..when healthy.

[Kyyle23]

Mike..

 

What you expect.. Most Cubs fans tell me that They have the better pitching staff..when healthy.

 

No, its Bret. Mike Myers is a Free Agent, and would not be part of a 3 team deal.