Sox interested in Mike Myers; Marte being shopped

[SSH2005]

Just throwing out this one:

 

Seeing as I'm not one for Pierre on this team, how about a Marte trade for some primere left-handed minor-league talent to help replace the gaping hole left by the departure of Haigwood and Gonzalez?  Although I'd love to see some kind of MLB talent netted with his departure, it simply might not be in the cards.  Does he have MLB value?  Absolutely.  Would it be as high as the value he could net if traded for minor leaguers?

 

/Myers mugshot avatar

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I think Marte would be moved with prospects for an established #2 hitter or a 1B/DH. If it's for a 1B/DH, then Konerko is obviously gone.

[Dick Allen]

By July, Mike Myers would leave you longing for Damaso Marte. Just say no to Myers. I think the Sox should work on fixing Marte. When he's right, and he's been right most of the time he has been on the team, he is as good as there is .

[Rowand44]

\ I would expect maybe 1.7-2 mil a year, maybe more(could be off)

He'll actually most likely get even less then that. Fantastic post, I agree with every single word of it.

[spataro51]

i am a little skeptical on this one. If we sign him then trade marte and a prospect for pierre then i am all for it. Otherwise i think marte can bounce back.

[Rowand44]

I just dont hold the same level of confidence that some of you do that Damaso can bounce back. The guy started to decline in 04 and just was flat out awful last year as well. There is something wrong with him even though his stuff is still there, there is something wrong upstairs. He's finished, imo.

[SSH2005]

i am a little skeptical on this one. If we sign him then trade marte and a prospect for pierre then i am all for it.  Otherwise i think marte can bounce back.

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I think that's what might happen. Re-sign Konerko and I'd be fine with Pierre as our #2 hitter. If Konerko leaves, I'd rather have Brian Anderson in center field.

[kdhargo]

Brad Wilkerson available? He'd probably fit in better in the #2 slot and CF than Pierre would...

[beck72]

I like this. Cotts has taken over the LH stopper role Marte had--a guy who can get both lefties and righties out and shut the door. This leaves Marte expendable. But he has a lot of value to other teams, which could net the sox are solid #2 hitter being talked about.

 

Marte has had trouble getting both out lefties and righties. If he were lights out vs lefties, keep him. But Marte has probably lost the confidence of the coaching staff. Having a guy like Myers who is lights out vs lefties helps the sox bullpen. At a reduced price. And in the talent the sox will receive from Marte.

[Dick Allen]

Why should we "Just say no" to Myers?

-We all know how much Oz loves his matchups. Myers has CLEARLY shown that he is great against LH hitters, and thats about it. Thats all we need him for anyway. Hell, Marte was worse against LH hitters anyway. If you bring in Myers, and ship Marte, that also will give Cotts more room to shine, which he deserves. With Marte gone, I can almost promise that you will see more Neal.

 

-You want the Sox to try and fix Marte. At one point during the season, after Marte had left the team, Ozzie said he didnt watch to pitch Marte at home because he was worried about the fans booing him and if Marte could take it. There comes a point of no return, and I think that is it. The old baseball term " Player A needs a change of scenery" seems to apply here.

 

-Myers is going to come cheap. I would expect maybe 1.7-2 mil a year, maybe more(could be off) You then in turn can get another piece for this team with Marte. Like many have said here, including you, that Marte can turn it around and be one of the best. You package Marte up with Sweeney or Owens, and you got yourself a nice package.

Sign me up for Mike Myers.

 

If Myers were so great, he wouldn't have modeled as many uniforms as he has. Marte can be fixed. He was hurt early in the season, and his first appearance back he was unhittable. The bicep pain returned. He didn't deal with it well. Then he comes late and is basically thrown off the team, while others who have come to the park late quietly pay their fine and nothing is said of it. Frank Thomas was booed mercilessly a few years ago, and he was able to fall back into the good graces of the fans. Marte can too. He was excellent in his World Series appearance. Eventually, Myers, even with Ozzie managing is going to have to get a right handed batter out. That is not going to be pretty. Marte is better than Myers. The Sox don't need to be trading Owens or Sweeney either. Exactly what are you going to bring in to improve the team after you have weakened the bullpen and minor league pool? I don't think its worth it. There are decent free agents who wouldn't be too expensive to fill the Sox holes. Mueller and Nomar are a couple.

[nitetrain8601]

I just dont hold the same level of confidence that some of you do that Damaso can bounce back.  The guy started to decline in 04 and just was flat out awful last year as well.  There is something wrong with him even though his stuff is still there, there is something wrong upstairs.  He's finished, imo.

 

Despite him being awful last year, I would say alot of guys would like to have their worst year being parallel's to Damaso's worst year.

[SSH2005]

If Myers were so great, he wouldn't have modeled as many uniforms as he has. Marte can be fixed. He was hurt early in the season, and his first appearance back he was unhittable. The bicep pain returned. He didn't deal with it well. Then he comes late and is basically thrown off the team, while others who have come to the park late quietly pay their fine and nothing is said of it. Frank Thomas was booed mercilessly a few years ago, and he was able to fall back into the good graces of the fans. Marte can too. He was excellent in his World Series appearance.  Eventually, Myers, even with Ozzie managing is going to have to get  a right handed batter out. That is not going to be pretty. Marte is better than Myers. The Sox don't need to be trading Owens or Sweeney either. Exactly what are you going to bring in to improve the team after you have weakened the bullpen and minor league pool? I don't think its worth it. There are decent free agents who wouldn't be too expensive to fill the Sox holes. Mueller and Nomar are a couple.

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First of all, one of the reasons Myers has been on so many teams is because he's 36 years old. The other reason is because he's a situational lefty. He's great against lefties but he should not even be used against righties. This makes him less valuable for a roster spot than a reliever that can get lefties and righties out like Neal Cotts. But the way Ozzie likes to use lefties, Myers would be great addition to our bullpen. The most I could see Myers earning is $1.5 million for the season.

Edited November 29, 2005 by SSH2005

[AddisonStSox]

Marte is better than Myers.

 

Academic at this point.

 

Ozzie and Marte can't co-exist next year for a full season. One could not but help get the impression Ozzie--despite using Marte--didn't even want him back last season after that little stunt he pulled-whether or not Ozzie fueled the flames or not is beside the point.

 

Yes, it would appear Marte is better than Myers. Is Marte better than Myers on THIS team? Marte's value now comes in his trade-value. We've all said he won't be a part of the 2006 roster. This rumor simply re-assures that line of thinking.

[Dick Allen]

First of all, one of the reasons Myers has been on so many teams is because he's 36 years old.  The other reason is because he's a situational lefty.  He's great against lefties but he should not even be used against righties.  This makes him less valuable for a roster spot than a reliever that can get lefties and righties out like Neal Cotts.  But the way Ozzie likes to use lefties, Myers would be great addition to our bullpen.  The most I see Myers making would be $1.5 million for the season.

For a situational lefty who is lights out against left handed batters, his career ERA isn't very impressive. If Ozzie brings him in to face anyone but another teams top left handed hitters, they will be immediately pinch hit for and the White Sox would be in trouble.

[beck72]

Despite him being awful last year, I would say alot of guys would like to have their worst year being parallel's to Damaso's worst year.

The key question is--can the sox trust Marte to come in vs a LH batter [the role he needs to fill as Cotts is the top LH guy] and get him out? I know I don't. More importantly, I don't think the sox coaching staff has that confidence, as as the whispers and talk about him being traded seem to point to.

[SSH2005]

I'm just curious. If you can sign a lefty that could do Marte's job at almost half the cost and use Marte in a trade to obtain a #2 hitter, why wouldn't you do it?

 

For a situational lefty who is lights out against left handed batters, his career ERA isn't very impressive. If Ozzie brings him in to face anyone but another teams top left handed hitters, they will be immediately pinch hit for and the White Sox would be in trouble.

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Maybe because teams use Myers wrong and pitch him against too many righties? It seemed to work for the Red Sox last season.

Edited November 29, 2005 by SSH2005

[Dick Allen]

Academic at this point. 

 

Ozzie and Marte can't co-exist next year for a full season.  One could not but help get the impression Ozzie--despite using Marte--didn't even want him back last season after that little stunt he pulled-whether or not Ozzie fueled the flames or not is beside the point.

 

Yes, it would appear Marte is better than Myers.  Is Marte better than Myers on THIS team?  Marte's value now comes in his trade-value.  We've all said he won't be a part of the 2006 roster.  This rumor simply re-assures that line of thinking.

 

I am of the opinion Marte is better for the White Sox than Myers. I think Marte pitched well in the playoffs and can take that good feeling with him to spring training, and be as good as ever. I'm also of the opinion trading him won't get you a player better than Mueller or Nomar, so you would be better off keeping him and signing one of those two.

[Balta1701]

I just dont understand why people are so behind Marte. He has had two above average seasons since 2003, and looks like a completley different pitcher than he was in 2003. On top of all that, from all reports he isnt the most well recieved player on the team.

 

What makes you think Marte can get back to 2003 form? What has he shown you to tell you that?

Well, if nothing else, last year he had games where he was just as dominant as he was in 2003. All he was doing different was following through on his pitches nad throwing strikes.

[Dick Allen]

I just dont understand why people are so behind Marte. He has had two above average seasons since 2003, and looks like a completley different pitcher than he was in 2003. On top of all that, from all reports he isnt the most well recieved player on the team.

 

What makes you think Marte can get back to 2003 form? What has he shown you to tell you that?

I think it is far more reasonable to think Damaso Marte can be a dominant LH relief pitcher again than the pipedream many around here have of Frank Thomas being able to hit 40 homers drive in 120 runs again.

[SSH2005]

I am of the opinion Marte is better for the White Sox than Myers. I think Marte pitched well in the playoffs and can take that good feeling with him to spring training, and be as good as ever.  I'm also of the opinion trading him won't get you a player better than Mueller or Nomar, so you would be better off keeping him and signing one of those two.

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Marte pitched well for two innings in Game 3 of the World Series. He was awful for the entire regular season and the rest of the postseason. You are letting Marte's two most recent good innings slant your perspective.

Edited November 29, 2005 by SSH2005

[Rowand44]

Well, if nothing else, last year he had games where he was just as dominant as he was in 2003.  All he was doing different was following through on his pitches nad throwing strikes.

That's a big difference. There is something wrong upstairs with him, he's a headcase right now. Even that solid game he pitched for us in game 3 he was walking the world. He started to decline in 04 and continued that in 05. There is no doubt that the guy was absolutely fantastic and lights out in 02 and 03 but he's not the same guy anymore.

[AddisonStSox]

I am of the opinion Marte is better for the White Sox than Myers. I think Marte pitched well in the playoffs and can take that good feeling with him to spring training, and be as good as ever.  I'm also of the opinion trading him won't get you a player better than Mueller or Nomar, so you would be better off keeping him and signing one of those two.

 

Fair enough. I absolutely understand and respect that angle.

 

Personally, I not only think Marte will be unable to re-gain his 2003 form, I believe he may have rubbed too many people the wrong way inside the organization--namely, the annointed King of the White Sox clubhouse--and sealed his own fate.

 

However, one thing I would suggest keeping in mind is that this may be a matter of, "He has to go," for reasons outside the realm of baseball. Unfortunately, I am nowhere near close enough to the situation to comment on that, simply conjecturing. But, if you ask me, I think Damaso's value for this club now rests in his abilty to land something of substantial value on the trade market, despite his one foot already being outside the door. *Thome leaving Philladelphia was bascially a 'must' move for the Phillies and that certainly didn't prevent them from landing something of great value via trade*

[Dick Allen]

Marte pitched well for 2 innings in Game 3 of the World Series.  He was awful for the entire regular season and the rest of the postseason.  You are letting Marte's 2 most recent good innings slant your perspective.

2 innings in a World Series game when the entire bullpen was spent. If Myers had to pitch 2 innings, the World Series most likely wouldn't have been a sweep. The guy also had a couple of good outings after he was thrown off the team and returned. Sure he was as inconsistent as a pitcher could be, sure he had his problems, but he also showed more than a few times he still can be very dominating when his head is right.

[SSH2005]

Fair enough.  I absolutely understand and respect that angle.

 

Personally, I not only think Marte will be unable to re-gain his 2003 form, I believe he may have rubbed too many people the wrong way inside the organization--namely, the annointed King of the White Sox clubhouse--and sealed his own fate.

 

However, one thing I would suggest keeping in mind is that this may be a matter of, "He has to go," for reasons outside the realm of baseball.  Unfortunately, I am nowhere near close enough to the situation to comment on that, simply conjecturing.  But, if you ask me, I think Damaso's value for this club now rests in his abilty to land something of substantial value on the trade market, despite his one foot already being outside the door.  *Thome leaving Philladelphia was bascially a 'must' move for the Phillies and that certainly didn't prevent them from landing something of great value via trade*

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Exactly, and if Marte sucks again next season his trade value will be be zero.

[SSH2005]

2 innings in a World Series game when the entire bullpen was spent. If Myers had to pitch 2 innings, the World Series most likely wouldn't have been a sweep. The guy also had a couple of good outings after he was thrown off the team and returned. Sure he was as inconsistent as a pitcher could be, sure he had his problems, but he also showed more than a few times he still can be very dominating when his head is right.

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Marte still walked two batters in those 1.2 innings and had to be relieved for Buehrle to get the save.

[3E8]

Brad Wilkerson available? He'd probably fit in better in the #2 slot and CF than Pierre would...

Now there's an idea. He can play 1B as well.