Sox interested in Mike Myers; Marte being shopped

[Dick Allen]

I never said I understood that either.

 

I think your wrong to about that many people thinking that. However, with the negitive attitude you seem to bring, it doesnt suprise me that is your thinking..

Negative attitude? I'm the one supporting a White Sox player and White Sox minor leaguers. I don't want Mike Myers. I think he sucks. I see the hundreds upon hundreds of posts about bringing back Thomas. All I have to say is in my opinion Marte is a far safer bet to count on than Frank. And he's cheaper too. I don't understand how that's being negative.

[Dick Allen]

Marte still walked two batters in those 1.2 innings and had to be relieved for Buehrle to get the save.

For a guy who hadn't pitched forever, and had gone through what he had gone through, he was very impressive. Those walks meant nothing, and Buerhle wasn't brought in because of ineffectiveness.

[Balta1701]

For a guy who hadn't pitched forever, and had gone through what he had gone through, he was very impressive. Those walks meant nothing, and Buerhle wasn't brought in because of ineffectiveness.

Why is it I remember being really pissed off at the ump that inning? I get the feeling I remember Marte was being squeezed quite a bit.

[SSH2005]

For a guy who hadn't pitched forever, and had gone through what he had gone through, he was very impressive. Those walks meant nothing, and Buerhle wasn't brought in because of ineffectiveness.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The walks mean nothing because Marte hadn't pitched in awhile? What? Do you remember what he did in ALDS against the Red Sox? You act like Marte wasn't walking guys all season, and postseason, long.

[AddisonStSox]

Jim, do my eyes deceive me? Has someone decided to grace the rest of the World Champion fanbase with his presence?

 

Welcome back amigo!

[Dick Allen]

Is Ozzie going to fix his head? Are the Chicago fans going to fix his head? To me it seems its pretty clear Marte cant fix his own head, so who is?

Marte has shown in the past and although very inconsistently in 2005, that he can get the job done. He had a sore arm that he had to pitch through, and he didn't do it well. When he had no pain, he was dominant. When there was a little pain he wouldn't finish his pitches. An offseason can fix his head, and hopefully his bicep is completely healed.

[HoosierSox]

Give it up for Soxtalk!  

 

We were all over this one weeks ago.

 

I've been researching Myers moreso than any other player this off-season.  Since we came up with this "crazy plan," I swear I must have checked, re-checked, and checked his stats about a hundred times.

 

I'm all in favor of the move.  Bring the Arlington Heights boy home and use him nearly exclusively against lefties. 

 

Before I go any further, let's all give Neal Cotts a big round of applause for making this all possible.  Without his emergence last year at this team's premier left arm out of the bullpen, Kenny would not make possible the trade of a lefty with GREAT stuff and met potential that simply shot himself in the foot and bought his own ticket out of town.

 

The signing of Mike Myers--who, for those of you that aren't aware, is a 3/4s-submarine pitcher...very entertaining to watch--makes possible the trade of Marte, someone who clearly isn't one of "Ozzie's boys" and seemed to talk himself right out the clubhouse door.  I'm all for this one.  All in.  Marte still has tremendous trade value--yup, tremendous...these sorts of left-handers don't grow on trees, despite his recent struggles spanning nearly one and a half seasons--and should net quite a lot in return.

 

Just throwing out this one:

 

Seeing as I'm not one for Pierre on this team, how about a Marte trade for some primere left-handed minor-league talent to help replace the gaping hole left by the departure of Haigwood and Gonzalez?  Although I'd love to see some kind of MLB talent netted with his departure, it simply might not be in the cards.  Does he have MLB value?  Absolutely.  Would it be as high as the value he could net if traded for minor leaguers?

 

/Myers mugshot avatar

 

 

I agree. If Marte is traded I want to see us restock a couple of minor league arms that we lost in the Thome trade. I do not want to see Pierre on this team. We have a nearly identical player in Willie Harris.

[SSH2005]

Marte has shown in the past and although very inconsistently in 2005, that he can get the job done. He had a sore arm that he had to pitch through, and he didn't do it well. When he had no pain, he was dominant. When there was a little pain he wouldn't finish his pitches. An offseason can fix his head, and hopefully his bicep is completely healed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Marte didn't get the job done. He gave up baserunners to the tune of a 1.72 WHIP and guys like Politte and Cotts bailed him out. There's a reason Marte's ERA was only 3.77 last season.

Edited November 29, 2005 by SSH2005

[Dick Allen]

The walks mean nothing because Marte hadn't pitched in awhile?  What?  Do you remember what he did in ALDS against the Red Sox? You act like Marte wasn't walking guys all season, and postseason, long.

I never said the guy was lights out all season. He was brutal against Boston. He was great even with the walks against Houston and as the poster above stated he was getting squeezed then. This is a guy who is used to a large number of appearances. Most pitchers tend to be a little wild when they don't pitch as much as they are used to.

[Dick Allen]

Marte didn't get the job done.  He gave up baserunners to the tune of a 1.72 WHIP and guys like Politte and Cotts bailed him out.  There's a reason Marte's ERA was only 3.77 last season.

It isn't wise to get rid of talented players because of a bad season. If that was team policy, Konerko would have hit his 80+ home runs the last couple seasons for someone else. Also Politte would have been let go after his horrible 2004.

Edited November 29, 2005 by Dick Allen

[jackie hayes]

It seemed that Frank's good showing in st of Ozzie's first year won him quite a bit of goodwill w/ the fans. Whoever's at fault, it doesn't look like the Sox and Marte will have that same olive branch between them. So even though I think Marte is a much better pitcher than Myers, I think the 'change of scenery' argument is a pretty strong one.

 

But we'll see. Best scenario would still be one where Damaso's back.

[Balta1701]

But we'll see.  Best scenario would still be one where Damaso's back.

Both the "best scenario" and whether or not we'd be better without Marte depend a ton on what we can get in a trade involving Marte. That's really the key to this whole discussion.

[Guest JimH]

Negative attitude? I'm the one supporting a White Sox player and White Sox minor leaguers. I don't want Mike Myers. I think he sucks. I see the hundreds upon hundreds of posts about bringing back Thomas. All I have to say is in my opinion Marte is a far safer bet to count on than Frank. And he's cheaper too. I don't understand how that's being negative.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

DA,

 

I agree with you, I think Marte is far better than Mike Myers.

 

However, I suggest to you that in this set of circumstances it doesn't matter.

 

Here is what we know for sure:

 

Ozzie and Marte had a blowup which was complicated enough that Marte got bounced off the team for a week. Supposedly it was patched up, but who knows.

 

The next thing we know is the White Sox want a #2 hitter, they love speed at the top, and Florida needs bullpen help. On the surface we have a match here between the two teams. It is not just a question of the White Sox wanting a #2 hitter, they (of course) have to give up an asset or two that some other teams like.

 

Personally I think White Sox fans should examine Florida's roster closely, beyond Juan Pierre. He "appears" to be an obvious target, whether some of us like it or not. Further, if they (Florida) trade Pierre, they need someone who can play CF in 2006. Who would that be, well ... Brian Anderson. Anderson and Marte are far too much for Pierre, so we should look deeper. I am sure the White Sox are doing just that.

[jackie hayes]

Both the "best scenario" and whether or not we'd be better without Marte depend a ton on what we can get in a trade involving Marte.    That's really the key to this whole discussion.

Sure, granted. But all these ideas being floated about Marte and a prospect for Juan Pierre don't inspire much confidence.

[Fingish]

It isn't wise to get rid of talented players because of a bad season. If that was team policy, Konerko would have hit his 80+ home runs the last couple seasons for someone else. Also Politte would have been let go after his horrible 2004.

 

 

Last 3 years:

 

Marte 2.92 ERA/1.33WHIP/.219BAA

 

Eyre 3.35ERA/1.31WHIP/.229BAA

 

 

 

Just comparing Marte to a guy that the Cubs just signed for big $$, Marte made $1.25mil last year. Considering Eyre did those numbers in the NL, replacing Marte with an equal amount of production on the open market would seem to cost about $4mil a year now.

 

It's absolutely amazing to me that people are ready to throw Marte out for just about anything, when in reality he's among the top left-handed relief pitchers in the game over the last 3-5 years. He also did get some pretty key outs near the end of the season out in Minnesota when we REALLY needed them. Hernandez is a hero because he threw one of the best innings in White Sox history in the playoffs, while doing much more to hurt us during the season than Marte, I don't hear nearly the clamor for El Duque to leave town.

 

Emotionalism is a terrible way to run a baseball team, at some point people have a be a little bit more objective about what Marte brings to the table than staying angry about some bad outings they remember from last year.

 

Only replace Marte if you are getting something pretty damn good in return, when he is healthy and on, he is a huge asset. Being able to put in a lefty to face a lefty while still knowing you can leave him out there to face a few more batters no matter whether they are lefties or righties adds a lot of flexablity for Ozzie.

[SSH2005]

Not everyone is thinking this would be a good move because of emotions. Maybe some people realize that if you can get a decent and cheap replacement for Marte in Myers and package Marte in a trade for a #2 hitter, it would be worth it.

Edited November 29, 2005 by SSH2005

[qwerty]

Despite him being awful last year, I would say alot of guys would like to have their worst year being parallel's to Damaso's worst year.

 

Marte had a 1.72 this past year... that = a .382 obp on the year. His year was far worse than his era indicates. Only time a relievers era should be looked at seriously is maybe a closers era. Most times closers come in to get out of jams ( not their runs) or to start and therefore finish the inning. Closers don't get pulled unless they are getting bombed. All that marte was good for last year is to see if our other relivers were good enough to get out of tough jams.

 

I am probally marte's biggest fan here... as he was my favorite player before widger came around.

[Rowand44]

Only replace Marte if you are getting something pretty damn good in return, when he is healthy and on, he is a huge asset. 

Ok, so when he's on he's a great pitcher...that's fantastic. One problem, he's not on that much anymore. He started to pitch pretty poorly at the end of 04 and it carried on through last year. The guy isn't the same anymore, I wish we could get the 03 Damaso back but it's just not happening.

[TLAK]

The next thing we know is the White Sox want a #2 hitter, they love speed at the top, and Florida needs bullpen help.  On the surface we have a match here between the two teams.  It is not just a question of the White Sox wanting a #2 hitter, they (of course) have to give up an asset or two that some other teams like. 

 

Would this Florida player be a 10 year veteran from the Dominican? A lot of salary.

[Frank the Tank 35]

I don't know if we'll ever see the Damaso of 2003 again. He's lost a few mph off his fastball. Back in 03 he was regularly lighting it up at 96/97 and occasionally up to 99 mph. Now his fastball is usually around 91/92 occasionally breaking 93. While that's still good as long as there is a lot of movement and an odd pitching angle, it won't cut it with the increased amount of wildness he's shown. While some of that wildness could be controlled, I don't think he'll ever be back to any sub 3 ERAs again. So if the deal was good enough, I think I'd go for it.

[RME JICO]

Marte had a 1.72 this past year... that = a .382 obp on the year. His year was far worse than his era indicates. Only time a relievers era should be looked at seriously is maybe a closers era. Most times closers come in to get out of jams ( not their runs) or to start and therefore finish the inning. Closers don't get pulled unless they are getting bombed. All that marte was good for last year is to see if our other relivers were good enough to get out of tough jams.

 

I am probally marte's biggest fan here... as he was my favorite player before widger came around.

 

I agree. Marte was bailed out a ton of times last year and his numbers would have been a lot worse if it wasn't for Politte, Cotts, Hermanson, and Jenks. I still think he can come around and put up better numbers, but if the Sox can fill a greater need, I say go for it.

[qwerty]

I don't know if we'll ever see the Damaso of 2003 again.  He's lost a few mph off his fastball.  Back in 03 he was regularly lighting it up at 96/97 and occasionally up to 99 mph.  Now his fastball is usually around 91/92 occasionally breaking 93.  While that's still good as long as there is a lot of movement and an odd pitching angle, it won't cut it with the increased amount of wildness he's shown.  While some of that wildness could be controlled, I don't think he'll ever be back to any sub 3 ERAs again.  So if the deal was good enough, I think I'd go for it.

 

Marte has never hit 99 in his life unless the radar gun was off. When he is going good he hits 95-96 with all his fastballs and can pop a 97 mile an hour fastball up there. If marte is washed up or not ( i still think he will outproduce eyre next year for less money) picking up marte was a great move by williams. He was already passed up by a couple teams when williams got him.

[Balta1701]

Marte has never hit 99 in his life unless the radar gun was off. When he is going good he hits 95-96 with all his fastballs and can pop a 97 mile an hour fastball up there. If marte is washed up or not ( i still think he will outproduce eyre next year for less money) picking up marte was a great move by williams. He was already passed up by a couple teams when williams got him.

There were definately times he was popping 95-96 this year. It certainly wasn't every game, but it wasn't a rare occurence either.

[qwerty]

There were definately times he was popping 95-96 this year.  It certainly wasn't every game, but it wasn't a rare occurence either.

 

There were a couple streaks he went two plus weeks without hitting 95-96 and he would come in and throw four pitches for a walk. When he was hitting the 95-96 he was much more dominant and could keep the hitters off balance. 91-92-93? Big difference from a lefty when it is setting up their off-speed pitches.

[Frank the Tank 35]

Marte has never hit 99 in his life unless the radar gun was off. When he is going good he hits 95-96 with all his fastballs and can pop a 97 mile an hour fastball up there. If marte is washed up or not ( i still think he will outproduce eyre next year for less money) picking up marte was a great move by williams. He was already passed up by a couple teams when williams got him.

 

Back in 03 I remember it happening quite often watching on TV whereas the past couple years he hasn't had as much pop in his fastball. I guess it's possible that there was a switch in radar guns/tv guns that could account for that. I don't think Marte is washed up, he'll still be a good reliever but not elite like he looked in 03. The loss of a couple mph theory makes sense to me though. After losing a few mph, a pitcher might try to paint the corners which would account for the sloppy results. I only get a chance to go to maybe 10 games a year, but I usually watch at least half on tv. It's not unheard of that the scoreboard gun and the tv gun are off.