beck72 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 03:09 AM) But, what correlates better to scoring runs? Batting average, or SLG%? It's SLG% -- and OBP, for that matter (not sure which correlates better, but I'm confident in saying SLG% and OBP correlate better to scoring runs than BA does). Pierre's OBP is very batting average heavy. So -- if he has a year in which he doesn't hit for a BA above .300 -- he ends up with a line like last year -- .276/.326/.354. Oh -- but I forgot about all the havoc he'll cause on the basepaths... Pierre fits in with the sox recent trends of getting guys coming off bad years, but who have a had a track record of success. They can probably get him for less because of his down yr you quoted. But his career BA of .305 and OBP of .355, along with his speed on the bases, and bunting ability, seem to be what the Sox want. You seem to be saying the sox don't need what a guy like Pierre brings to the table. that's fine. We can argue which is most important--but the sox are the ones seemingly looking for a #2 hitter along the lines of Pierre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Something that people may not have considered, Florida look like they're going to trade Ron Villone. If a Marte + prospect for Pierre and Villone deal was possible, would people be interested? FWIW here's Villone's splits etc. BEFORE he came to Florida. 2005 - vs. Lefties .222 AVG, 1.22 WHIP. 2.54 ERA Pre ASB, 1 HR given up in 35.2IP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 04:59 AM) Something that people may not have considered, Florida look like they're going to trade Ron Villone. If a Marte + prospect for Pierre and Villone deal was possible, would people be interested? FWIW here's Villone's splits etc. BEFORE he came to Florida. 2005 - vs. Lefties .222 AVG, 1.22 WHIP. 2.54 ERA Pre ASB, 1 HR given up in 35.2IP. That prospect is chris young right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 10:01 PM) That prospect is chris young right? If I'm Larry Beinfest, that's why I'm probably gonna ask for. But KW won't do that (or at least we hope). Just throwing it out there, but you gotta remember what the Marlins gave up for Villone in the 1st place (and remember the whole Villone for B-Mac discussions right around the trade deadline when we didn't make a move and posters were venting PEOPLE!!!!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I don't think the Marlins would want Marte, esp as his contract isn't that small. Isn't Villone's deal similar to Marte's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Ron Villone: signed 2-year deal worth 4.2M thru 2006 on 1/18/05- + he receives a 500K signing bonus and salaries of 1.7M in 2005 and 2M in 2006- + he can earn 100K in performance bonuses based on app. and another 1M in incentives if he starts 30 games: 25K each for 50 and 55 games and 50K for 60 games; 200K for 20 starts and 250K each for 25 and 30 starts- + FLA owes him about 588K in 2005 after trade from SEA Agent: Scott Boras Marte IIRC, makes even more than Villone, over $2 mill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(beck72 @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 10:17 PM) Ron Villone: signed 2-year deal worth 4.2M thru 2006 on 1/18/05- + he receives a 500K signing bonus and salaries of 1.7M in 2005 and 2M in 2006- + he can earn 100K in performance bonuses based on app. and another 1M in incentives if he starts 30 games: 25K each for 50 and 55 games and 50K for 60 games; 200K for 20 starts and 250K each for 25 and 30 starts- + FLA owes him about 588K in 2005 after trade from SEA Agent: Scott Boras Marte IIRC, makes even more than Villone, over $2 mill His agent is Bora$$. Ok scrap that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(beck72 @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 04:54 AM) But his career BA of .305 and OBP of .355, along with his speed on the bases, and bunting ability, seem to be what the Sox want. You seem to be saying the sox don't need what a guy like Pierre brings to the table. that's fine. We can argue which is most important--but the sox are the ones seemingly looking for a #2 hitter along the lines of Pierre Because you can probably get all of that for cheap in our own system. And if Pierre doesnt work out, what can you do then? Demote him? I predict Owens to perform around those numbers at some point, why not find out now? If it doesnt work out, send him back down. We dont lose players, and we dont lose money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Because you can probably get all of that for cheap in our own system. And if Pierre doesnt work out, what can you do then? Demote him? I predict Owens to perform around those numbers at some point, why not find out now? If it doesnt work out, send him back down. We dont lose players, and we dont lose money. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Simple answer, it's because they said they wanted to acquire a #2 hitter. Owens looks like a fall back plan if they can't acquire someone. Seems to me it's better to let Owens refine his game at AAA and be able to fill in if Podsednik gets hurt or your #2 hitter gets hurt. I love depth. However, if they can't pull off a trade I think Owens has a decent shot at being the #2 hitter in '06. But I'm still predicting they'll bring someone in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 29, 2005 -> 09:41 PM) There are so many things that play into this whole off-season. You have the whole Konerko saga happening, Thome in at 1b/DH, a void in CF, the need/want of a #2 hole hitter, and the log jam of Anderson/Young/Owens/Sweeney. Of the 5 things you mention here, the last three (CF, 2-hole, logjam) are all solved with one move. That move's name is Owens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 10:22 AM) Of the 5 things you mention here, the last three (CF, 2-hole, logjam) are all solved with one move. That move's name is Owens. Owens is still very raw and I'm still not sure whether he's ready. I would like to give him another year in aaa and then give him a shot to make the team in 07 and I'm pretty positive the sox feel the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 11:26 AM) We just won the World Series. Im not satisfied going into the season with our two hole hitter never playing a game in AAA. Sorry. Understood. I guess I look at this as a business thing. Needs of the business trump ideal personnel plans. The Sox need a 2-hole hitter, need a CF, and want to unclog that logjam. Owens can solve all of those, and for 330k/year. The downfall is that he is very raw, as you note (though he has been hitting .400+ in a winter league with AAA+ players). The ideal plan would be to wait another year. But given the choice of an expensive guy like Pierre, versus a young, cheap guy who looks like he has a good shot at being better (and is cheaper, and would have an also-talented Anderson behind him), I'll take Owens. I like taking those kinds of chances. And in terms of bang for the buck, I think it's the smart move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 10:27 AM) Owens is still very raw and I'm still not sure whether he's ready. I would like to give him another year in aaa and then give him a shot to make the team in 07 and I'm pretty positive the sox feel the same way. Dave Wilder, the same guy who said Bobby Jenks was ready last season, thought Owens was ready in August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 10:33 AM) Dave Wilder, the same guy who said Bobby Jenks was ready last season, thought Owens was ready in August. Maybe..maybe not. I mean, he's obviously been hitting very well but the Met was perfect for the type of hitter he is. The guy has still barely played professional ball, I'd like to see him play in a less spacious ballpark like charlotte first and let him continue his development. I like owens and I like him a lot but I don't want to rush someone like him when we have other options. It's hard to find very good leadoff hitters and down the road owens has a shot to be a very good one, I don't want to mess with that opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Dave Wilder, the same guy who said Bobby Jenks was ready last season, thought Owens was ready in August. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well ... I spoke to Wilder on the phone at length and we talked about Owens, he said he was doing well but needed to hone his game a bit. That's one reason he's in winter ball. That said it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's on the team in some capacity. With the White Sox' current situation it's more about the ability to contribute vs. an idnvidual player's development. Both are issues, it's just that the former outweighs the latter. If the White Sox were, say, the KC Royals it might be different. Bottom line, if Owens is ready and can contribute he'll be on the team. Personally I was impressed with him last spring and if I recall correctly he was a guy I identified as having a breakout year. I think Reynoso was the other, oh well, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 10:50 AM) Well ... I spoke to Wilder on the phone at length and we talked about Owens, he said he was doing well but needed to hone his game a bit. That's one reason he's in winter ball. That said it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's on the team in some capacity. With the White Sox' current situation it's more about the ability to contribute vs. an idnvidual player's development. Both are issues, it's just that the former outweighs the latter. If the White Sox were, say, the KC Royals it might be different. Bottom line, if Owens is ready and can contribute he'll be on the team. Personally I was impressed with him last spring and if I recall correctly he was a guy I identified as having a breakout year. I think Reynoso was the other, oh well, Exactly. We're looking to defend a World Championship. If we get a proven guy over a maybe guy, i'm all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 01:46 PM) Exactly. We're looking to defend a World Championship. If we get a proven guy over a maybe guy, i'm all for it. After last season, Pierre would have to be considered a "maybe" guy himself. The Sox are going to have to work some of their prospects into the line-up somehow, or trade them. A healthy Thome with Konerko back would be an excellent opportunity to work a guy in with limited pressure to hit. I'm all for Anderson or Owens patrolling CF unless they want to really upgrade the postion and put an All Star out there. Paying Pierre $4 million and giving up talent for him while stunting the growth of your own prospects would be a mistake in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 10:26 AM) We just won the World Series. Im not satisfied going into the season with our two hole hitter never playing a game in AAA. Sorry. The Sox won the WS with a closer who hadn't played above AA until August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 02:17 PM) The Sox won the WS with a closer who hadn't played above AA until August. Pierre is a maybe guy because of one down year, a year in which he still hit a solid .276 and finished second in the NL in stolen bases and triples? I think not. Pierre has more than proven himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Latest on Myers via ESPN: The Yankees are close to a deal with him. DAMN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 02:17 PM) The Sox won the WS with a closer who hadn't played above AA until August. Snap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 08:15 PM) After last season, Pierre would have to be considered a "maybe" guy himself. The Sox are going to have to work some of their prospects into the line-up somehow, or trade them. Pierre isn't a maybe guy after one subpar year. Esp as he started the year injured. I agree about somehow working prospects into the system. But people have mentioned having Owens hit #2. that's not working him in--that's setting him up for failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 03:24 PM) Latest on Myers via ESPN: The Yankees are close to a deal with him. DAMN! Good. I want Marte over his soon to be overpaid ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWhiteSoxinNJ Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 05:24 PM) Latest on Myers via ESPN: The Yankees are close to a deal with him. DAMN! I thought the Yanks were about to sign Farnsworth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 They are going to sign as many relievers for as much money as they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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