Jon Garland

[White Sox Josh]

Here are the starting pitchers:

 

RHSP:

 

Paul Wilson (Team Option)

Wade Miller

Jon Garland

Tomo Ohka

Gil Meche

Greg Maddux

Jason Schmidt

Jeff Suppan

Rick Helling

 

Brad Radke

 

Kerry Wood (Mutual Option)

 

Mike Mussina (Team Option)

 

Cory Lidle

 

Kelvim Escobar

 

Joel Piniero arb?

 

Chan Ho Park

 

Jose Contreras

 

Ryan Franklin

 

Orlando Hernandez

 

Jaret Wright (Team + Player Void options)

 

Kip Wells

 

Jason Marquis

 

Vicente Padilla

 

Adam Eaton

 

Tim Wakefield (Annual Team Renew Option)

 

LHSP:

 

Ted Lilly

Mark Redman

 

Andy Pettitte

 

Mark Mulder

 

Barry Zito

 

Doug Davis

 

Randy Wolf

Mark Buerhle (Team Option)

 

David Wells

 

Wilson Alvarez (Retired)

 

Darrell May

 

Eric Milton (Void Option)

From the looks of that list he will be a rich man. He looks like the best SP on the market (assuming Mark Buehrle's Option is picked up and it will be). He will have a choice between money and being happy. I hope he would take less money like Buehrle would or Konerko would but for some reason I just have a bad feeling that he might not.

[southsider2k5]

If Jon Garland had hit the open market this season, he would have been looking at a 6 or 7 year deal, with at least $10 million a year, probably more (maybe way more). The guy is a workhorse at the very least. A guy like Loiaza who is older, and puts up worse career numbers just got a 3 year deal at 7 million per season. Loiaza in the last 5 seasons has put up ERAs under 5, only twice. Even if Garland "regressed" to his form of the prior 3 seasons, he has averaged 200 innings and won double digits every year, in a hugely hitters ballpark... that would all add up to AT LEAST what Kris Benson after 04, probably more because teams would look at Jon's 05 season and think that they could bring him back to that. Hell Oakland just did that with Esteban, on much less evidence and potential of his ever returning to his incredible form.

 

Garland is a $10 million pitcher at the VERY least in today's market. If he goes out in 06 and keeps his ERA under 4 again, we could be talking about a $15 million per year pitcher, on a long term contract, to a team like the Yankees, Red Sox, or whatever flavor of the month GM was overspending at the moment.

[White Sox Josh]

If Jon Garland had hit the open market this season, he would have been looking at a 6 or 7 year deal, with at least $10 million a year, probably more (maybe way more).  The guy is a workhorse at the very least.  A guy like Loiaza who is older, and puts up worse career numbers just got a 3 year deal at 7 million per season.  Loiaza in the last 5 seasons has put up ERAs under 5, only twice.  Even if Garland "regressed" to his form of the prior 3 seasons, he has averaged 200 innings and won double digits every year, in a hugely hitters ballpark... that would all add up to AT LEAST what Kris Benson after 04, probably more because teams would look at Jon's 05 season and think that they could bring him back to that.  Hell Oakland just did that with Esteban, on much less evidence and potential of his ever returning to his incredible form.

 

Garland is a $10 million pitcher at the VERY least in today's market.  If he goes out in 06 and keeps his ERA under 4 again, we could be talking about a $15 million per year pitcher, on a long term contract, to a team like the Yankees, Red Sox, or whatever flavor of the month GM was overspending at the moment.

I have a question: How will he be able to feed his family on $7 Million? How will he be able to have a roof over his head. Edited December 2, 2005 by White Sox Josh

[Flash Tizzle]

You all have to ask yourself this: WWBD?

 

What WOULD Beane do in this situation?

 

To properly place yourself within his mindset, just imagine you were yet again stomped out of the ALDS. Forget about advancing even one round. The playoffs are decided by hot streaks and luck--until statistics prove otherwise or Oakland wins. Then it's based on talent.

 

Now, to the matter at hand. I'd be willing to predict Garland would be moved if Beane were at the helm. I'm certaintly not advocating that, but if a team is willing to assemble a package--one of which includes a stud pitching prospect projected for arrival within one, two years--do you approve it? Our team will become very expensive over the next few years, and unless our payroll increases accordingly, we'll have to rely on several cheap alternatives to defer larger contracts. This is where including both Haigwood and Gonzalez in the Thome deal hurts.

 

Now, I realize pitching was our anchor in winning a World Series. I'd be more willing to adopt a Beane-philosophy if there was a pitching prospect in return who made it an absolute can't miss deal. Or if a prospect within our system was ready to accompany McCarthy in the rotation.

 

Just a thought. Because Beane is a genius, and every organization within Major League Baseball should adopt his methods.

Edited December 2, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[LoFiStew]

If Jon Garland had hit the open market this season, he would have been looking at a 6 or 7 year deal, with at least $10 million a year, probably more (maybe way more).  The guy is a workhorse at the very least.  A guy like Loiaza who is older, and puts up worse career numbers just got a 3 year deal at 7 million per season.  Loiaza in the last 5 seasons has put up ERAs under 5, only twice.  Even if Garland "regressed" to his form of the prior 3 seasons, he has averaged 200 innings and won double digits every year, in a hugely hitters ballpark... that would all add up to AT LEAST what Kris Benson after 04, probably more because teams would look at Jon's 05 season and think that they could bring him back to that.  Hell Oakland just did that with Esteban, on much less evidence and potential of his ever returning to his incredible form.

 

Garland is a $10 million pitcher at the VERY least in today's market.  If he goes out in 06 and keeps his ERA under 4 again, we could be talking about a $15 million per year pitcher, on a long term contract, to a team like the Yankees, Red Sox, or whatever flavor of the month GM was overspending at the moment.

 

If that's the case, I'd say, "Thanks, Jon, good luck in New York (or Boston or wherever.)"

 

Those numbers are insane. No starting pitcher is worth a 6- or 7-year contract, especially at $10-15 million per year. And that Loiaza contract? Sheesh, I thought Billy Beane was supposed to be so smart.

 

No question Garland is a valuable pitcher. He is entering his prime and has been very durable. But on a good team, he is a No. 3 starter, No. 2 at best. He is not a dominant starter. He needs a good defense behind him because he strikes out so few hitters. I don't think it's any coincidence that he had his best year this year when the Sox finally improved their defense.

 

I don't mean to sound like I'm knocking him, but I just don't think Garland is worth a 5+ year deal at $10+ million per year. If he can get that from someone else, more power to him.

[3E8]

The problem is no one will give up much in terms of prospects for only one guaranteed year of Jon Garland.

Edited December 2, 2005 by 3E8

[Balta1701]

If Jon Garland had hit the open market this season, he would have been looking at a 6 or 7 year deal, with at least $10 million a year, probably more (maybe way more).  The guy is a workhorse at the very least.

I'm sorry, but a 6-7 year deal? Even AJ Burnett isn't trying to wing a 7 year deal. I can only think of 1 pitcher who's even managed to pull that off in history - Kevin Brown. Even Tim Hudson's contract Extension with the Braves was only a 4 year plan.

[Flash Tizzle]

The problem is no one will give up much in terms of prospects for only one guaranteed year of Jon Garland.

 

Nothing would surprise me. Perhaps the team trading for Garland, ideally Texas or Baltimore, can forsake a few prospects for a starting pitcher if they believe the move provides leverage for a contract extension.

[juddling]

Maybe it's just me but i'd like to see Garland have two good years in a row before i start paying him the big bucks. i hope i'm wrong but what happens if next year he goes back to his usual 13-12 with a 4 ERA. Was last year a fluke or a look at things to come????? We'll have to see.

[aboz56]

Two words for you, KW:

 

Sell High.

[shawnhillegas]

well if we have to pay the big bucks, id rather keep beurhle and freddy. and besides, i have a good feeling that in 3 years we will be complaining about how we dont have enough money to offer mccarthy an extension

[drowninginflame]

I've met Garland a few times and each time he was a total dick and I wan't all fanboy on him.

 

It was like a simple whatever you're doing keep it up man and he was a knob about it

 

He had a good season good for him

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Carmy and Silvy just said negoitations are off. He will go to arbitration and expect a large chunck of change for the '06 season. He will test the market after the season. This is good news and bad news for us. The good news is Jon G. will pitch his heart out for another season. The bad news is- this might be his final season in a Sox uniform.

Other starters:

Buerhle signed through '07, Garcia signed through '07, This is El-duque and Contreras' last year of there contracts also. Yikes! Lets enjoy the ride at least one more time with this pitching staff.

 

 

I dont see why we cant bring back most, if not all, of these guys with another sucessful season and the increased ticket sales its going to produce.

[White Sox Josh]

I dont see why we cant bring back most, if not all, of these guys with another sucessful season and the increased ticket sales its going to produce.

i have a feeling that Garland will be signed to a 3 year contract before the season starts. Remember KW saying not to bet on Iguchi signing with the Sox. What about that Pierzynski was not gonna playing with the sox because he did a background

check and didn't like what he saw. KW is playing everybody. Konerko even said there was no offer on the table. This was the only one. It's almost a con game.

Edited December 2, 2005 by White Sox Josh

[SSH2005]

I've met Garland a few times and each time he was a total dick and I wan't all fanboy on him.

 

It was like a simple whatever you're doing keep it up man and he was a knob about it

 

He had a good season good for him

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What did Garland say to you when you told him to keep up whatever he was doing?

[Whitewashed in '05]

Well JG will be back for one more season it's just about signing him long term. If he starts that I wanna test FA s*** I'm gonna be pissed. Just sign and stay with your boy MB and with a winning team damnit. Lol... We can't keep out bidding teams for our own players.

[Whitewashed in '05]

I've met Garland a few times and each time he was a total dick and I wan't all fanboy on him.

 

It was like a simple whatever you're doing keep it up man and he was a knob about it

 

He had a good season good for him

I don't know if you should take him personally. That's how he is, he's laid back and sometimes those guys might give the wrong vibe just because they don't say much.

 

I've also met him a few times and both times he really didn't talk much.

[White Sox Josh]

What did Garland say to you when you told him to keep up whatever he was doing?

he gives off that perception really well that he doesn't care. And him not showing up for that autograph session in 2004 after he got rocked by the Tigers sends the wrong signal.

[dmbjeff]

garland for ichiro, who's with me?

[GoodAsGould]

garland for ichiro, who's with me?

 

I can tell you Seattle isnt

[southsider2k5]

I'm sorry, but a 6-7 year deal?  Even AJ Burnett isn't trying to wing a 7 year deal.  I can only think of 1 pitcher who's even managed to pull that off in history - Kevin Brown.  Even Tim Hudson's contract Extension with the Braves was only a 4 year plan.

 

Garland is 26, has never been injured, makes all his starts, and could be a #1 starter on a lot of teams. If you sign Jon Garland to a 7 year contract he will be 33 when he is done. In today's marketplace that isn't NEARLY as much risk as some teams are taking for pitching. Heck just yesterday the Phillies gave Flash Gordon of reconstructed elbow and frail body fame, just got a 3 year deal to pitch until he is 41 at $ 6 million per year. AJ Burnett who has had his own serious injury problems is looking at a five year deal, how could Garland not be a safer investment? Hudson got a 4 year deal to stay in Atlanta, who never gives out long term deals, if he would have hit the open market, I think he would have been in the same category as Garland... A very long term deal, with a ton of cash.

 

I am not arguing that I like this by any stretch of the imagination, but in this marketplace, you can't tell me Jon Garland getting an 8 figure per year deal at 6-7 years is an improbability right now.

[RME JICO]

The one benefit to a longer deal is that it normally brings the $ per year down. So if Garland was looking for $7-$8 per year, then a 6 yr for $42 (7 per avg) is not bad for Garland.

 

Once the winter meetings are complete, I am sure that KW will have another offer for JG.

[AnthraxFan93]

Here is my problem with handing Garland a 6-7year deal...WHY? If anyone on the team deserves a JR no no, its Marky... How bad is Mark going to feel when we hand a kid with one good season a 6 year deal and the sox will only give Mark a 3 year?

[ptatc]

I'm sorry, but a 6-7 year deal?  Even AJ Burnett isn't trying to wing a 7 year deal.  I can only think of 1 pitcher who's even managed to pull that off in history - Kevin Brown.  Even Tim Hudson's contract Extension with the Braves was only a 4 year plan.

 

Mike Hampton got an 8 year deal from the Rockies.

 

I can tell you for a fact that the Sox will never give more than a 4-5 year deal to any pitcher. Even those years are unlikely. JR still remembers getting burned on the deals for Dotson, Hoyt and Burns. Dot went down with a shoulder injury and was never the same, Burns wnet down with a hip injury and retired in his 20's and the Sox found out about Hoyt affinity for mind altering substances and traded him for a couple decent players and a future WS winning manager.

 

Remeber Alex Fernandez? He looked a whole lot better than Garland and the Sox refused his 5 year demand. He went to Florida injured his shoulder and disappaered.

 

You can say what you want about what other teams will offer JG but the Sox will not offer him a long term deal. Rightfully so, because pitchers are too fragile (again my bias due to working with the injuries)

[ZoomSlowik]

Come on people, Jon Garland is not going to be more than a $10 mil pitcher, and he's really going to have to kick some ass to get that. You need to ignore this year's FA market because it's abnormally thin and there is a lot more money to throw around than most years. He's not going to have as much demand as several of the other starters because he's not a strikeout pitcher and he's been historically mediocre. Even considering the other players available that are like him, his resume and reputation is much weaker than that of guys like Pettitte, Zito, and Mulder. The general consensus around the league seems to be that this year was a fluke and he'll go back to his old self next year. The guy has one good season in his 6th year in the majors, his 4th as a full time starter, and suddenly he's the second coming? He wasn't even that dominant, and someone is supposed to pay him like he's Pedro Martinez or Johan Santana? I can't even come up with 10 teams that he would be the unquestioned ace on right now. This is just like the Konerko situation, with everyone panicking that he's going to be on another team on a ridiculous deal like 6/100. Let's drop our Sox bias for a second and objectively look at him. He's a young pitcher (although he'll be 27 when he's a FA, which isn't all that young) without elite stuff that has had one good but not great year in his major league career, maybe two years by the this time next year. And he's going to get $12 mil a year for 5 years or more? Please. Just relax and let things happen, don't panick about what you think might happen if some GM has a brain fart.

Edited December 2, 2005 by ZoomSlowik