Soxplosion Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I hope I don't come off sounding like an uncaring person I think youre a jerk. Suicide is sad. To think its anything else, is just stupid and arrogant. Knowing you, Im not surprised by what you said... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Ive never considered it. Life is too precious and theres only one, so I guess we should all make the most of it. Even if I did consider it, which I never will, Ill never do it. If my family died, I would be saddened, deeply saddened, but I would never kill myself. And steff, maybe my analogy was a little off but still, suicide is sad. Its not selfish or ignorant, its just sad... Yes Roman.. it's sad. It's also EXTREMELY SELFISH. When people take their own lives they stop caring about everyone else around them. They don't care who has to pick up the pieces, clean up the mess, take care of their loved ones (kids, spouse, parents, pets, etc.) or bury them. They DENY their loved ones the oppurtunity to HELP them, which is what family and friends are for. Selfish. Oh.. your analogy was not a little off.. there is NO comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 clean up the mess Whoa crap! Of course, I shouldnt have left that one out! Obviously the first thing I think about when my friend blows his brains out is if I have clean up his brain matter! Maybe you meant that some other way, but if you meant it to say who has to clean up his body, youre a jerk, just like I suspected. And fine, as for the soldier thing, there is no comparison. I never should have mentioned it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Whoa crap! Of course, I shouldnt have left that one out! Obviously the first thing I think about when my friend blows his brains out is if I have clean up his brain matter! Maybe you meant that some other way, but if you meant it to say who has to clean up his body, youre a jerk, just like I suspected. And fine, as for the soldier thing, there is no comparison. I never should have mentioned it... You truly are an idiot. Clean up the mess.... legal matters, financial matters, personal matters. All of which are left in a disarray (or mess) when someone decides to kill themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Whoa crap! Of course, I shouldnt have left that one out! Obviously the first thing I think about when my friend blows his brains out is if I have clean up his brain matter! Maybe you meant that some other way, but if you meant it to say who has to clean up his body, youre a jerk, just like I suspected. And fine, as for the soldier thing, there is no comparison. I never should have mentioned it... You truly are an idiot. Clean up the mess.... legal matters, financial matters, personal matters. All of which are left in a disarray (or mess) when someone decides to kill themselves. If my friend blew his brains in, Im not gonna care about legal crap either! And money, I would care even less about that. People who are so obsessed with money piss me off. Someone dies and they go and try to sue. Mourn, you idiots! To sue over death is just greedy. It aint bringing the dead back, so what really is the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Whoa crap! Of course, I shouldnt have left that one out! Obviously the first thing I think about when my friend blows his brains out is if I have clean up his brain matter! Maybe you meant that some other way, but if you meant it to say who has to clean up his body, youre a jerk, just like I suspected. And fine, as for the soldier thing, there is no comparison. I never should have mentioned it... You truly are an idiot. Clean up the mess.... legal matters, financial matters, personal matters. All of which are left in a disarray (or mess) when someone decides to kill themselves. If my friend blew his brains in, Im not gonna care about legal crap either! And money, I would care even less about that. People who are so obsessed with money piss me off. Someone dies and they go and try to sue. Mourn, you idiots! To sue over death is just greedy. It aint bringing the dead back, so what really is the point? Oh geez.. I'll type slower for you OK? When someone kills themselves, they don't think about these things. They leave someone else to take care of them. The person left has no choice but to take care of them. That person has to take care of things they likely would rather not have to take care of and will probably have a hard time with. This is one of the many things that makes suicide SELFISH in that the person that kills themselves doesn't care about how the people they leave behind deal with the things they (the person who commits suicide) leave behind. Did ya get all that..? Not anywhere did I say that the person who has to "clean up the mess" cared about these things. Stop making things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Fine whatever. But back to what I said about people suing over death. Ok, some guy works in a steel factory. And they put pieces of steel up on shelves. One day the man walks up, a piece falls off and clips his head off and of course he dies. He has the funeral and everything. Then his widow goes and sues the company for not securing the piece. She wins and she has all this money but her hubbies still gone. So what exactly did the money fix? Nothing. Dont sue over death, cuz the money wont bring anyone back. Dont you too think this is pointless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Fine whatever. But back to what I said about people suing over death. Ok, some guy works in a steel factory. And they put pieces of steel up on shelves. One day the man walks up, a piece falls off and clips his head off and of course he dies. He has the funeral and everything. Then his widow goes and sues the company for not securing the piece. She wins and she has all this money but her hubbies still gone. So what exactly did the money fix? Nothing. Dont sue over death, cuz the money wont bring anyone back. Dont you too think this is pointless? Yes, her husband may never come back, but neither will that regular income he provided. Or is she just supposed to live off the generosity of others? her hubbies Again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Fine whatever. But back to what I said about people suing over death. Ok, some guy works in a steel factory. And they put pieces of steel up on shelves. One day the man walks up, a piece falls off and clips his head off and of course he dies. He has the funeral and everything. Then his widow goes and sues the company for not securing the piece. She wins and she has all this money but her hubbies still gone. So what exactly did the money fix? Nothing. Dont sue over death, cuz the money wont bring anyone back. Dont you too think this is pointless? No.. not fine whatever. YOU WERE WRONG. Now you want to change the subject? Why is it that you can never finish something? Another horrible trait of a Marine. As for your little "what if" down there. I do feel a monitary aware is more than fair in that case. The woman has lost her spouse who's income was likely used to "take care" of his family. Who do you want to take care of them now? Have her go on welfare and YOU pay for her and her families care? That's what insurance is for Roman. For payment of future lost wages in the even of incidents like you describe. It's not just about the money either Roman. $ = stability. How is the widow supposed to take care of her now husbandless family if she has to work 2 or 3 jobs to put food in their mouths? Want to try another analogy... you're only at strike 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Yes, her husband may never come back, but neither will that regular income he provided. Or is she just supposed to live off the generosity of others? Again? I dont care. Some people are just too obsessed with money and it pisses me off. If I join the USMC and live in a box, Ill still be happier than the richest man in the world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Yes, her husband may never come back, but neither will that regular income he provided. Or is she just supposed to live off the generosity of others? Again? Damn straight...to say nothing of the lives of others lawsuit will help save- you'll be surprised just how fast those companies improve safety measures and come up with a more reasonable shift schedule...when they face losing tens of millions of dollars every time there is an "accident". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Yes, her husband may never come back, but neither will that regular income he provided. Or is she just supposed to live off the generosity of others? Again? I dont care. Some people are just too obsessed with money and it pisses me off. If I join the USMC and live in a box, Ill still be happier than the richest man in the world... You wont have a laptop... will you..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I dont care. Some people are just too obsessed with money and it pisses me off.... What does it have to do with a grieving widow and industrial accidents? Goddamn, can you get any more clueless with your analogies? What do you have against money anyway? I don't have much of it, but I don't obcess about hating it either. If I join the USMC and live in a box, Ill still be happier than the richest man in the world Or not...Then again, your're 16, you're supposed to think that way. Sure as hell beats teen angst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 You wont have a laptop... will you..? Hahahaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Steff, in your initial post in this thread I could tell suicide had hit close to home for you, which you later stated. I grieve that this has happened in your family and with friends, especially multiple times. I cannot agree that suicide is selfish. It has many causes and each situation is multi-faceted - there is never one 100% reason for anything. From chemical depression to total estrangment or pain, there is not a one-size fits all explanation that equals selfish. In some situations there is a varying percentage degree to which revenge on those left behind may apply. In my vocational and eprsonal experience, and in all the clinical research I have seen, that is a very seldom a salient issue in a particular case. To say that all problems were solvable - not to the people in pain, they do not appear solvable. Froim other people's perspectives, perhaps, but not to those in their own suffering. The escape from the insolvable is why suicide becomes an option, it grants to some the only viable solution that they can see for relief. Disagree though we may, it is valid to the person in that situation. As ar as teenagers having no problems so why should they ever be suicidal - I am far removed from ebing a teenager but above all people, those in the teen years experience an angst that can be so unbearable. Our own experiences, and so much of music and literature, is an expression of the pariticular pain that adolensence brings. If nothing else, Romeo and Juliet stands for that. From my perspective now, hell, I don't even remember the names of some of the girlkfriends in the broken relatinships that just tormented by world back then. Teenage angst is not soimething to be dismissed. Perhaps the biological anbd hormornal and physical changes coupled with the rapid emotional growth that goes in a compressed periuod with the absense of ife experience is a factor. We all know that you go through far, far, far more changes from ages 13-19 thjan say 33-39. The very parid onset and quick development of these adolesent changes - which are exactly normal - results in the high degree to which teenage angst is felt. I don;t know. But I do not dismiss as "people having no problems" any teenager who is hurting. That is the worst time of life, those years, huge changes, huge life decisions, huge leaps in pwersonal developement. Teenage suffering is real, very very real. My niece and nephew just lost their grandmother to suicide. Whatever drove her to do that was not selfishment. I suspect rather that incredible lack of self esteem, and wirth caused her to consider that she was not a good grandmother and they were btter off without her. Her reasoning was not in the range of selfish. Anger at those who commit suicide is very normal because it does leave the survivors of the deceased in vulnerable positions emotionally. Blame is one of the things that survivors grapple with - could I have prevented this, did I miss clues, is it my fault - and the need for a person who is greiving suicide to say to the dead person "how the f*** could you do this to me and leave me in such pain" is of course a part of the grief process. As with all the steps of grief, that is one we must go throuigh before we ever can find a level of acceptance with the reality of what has happened. And find acceptance we must, because to live in that anger is not healthy for the survivor. And yet the pain always lingers. The questions of why and what if. And again I grieve your encounter multiple times with this pain. I know it been hard to be buffeted so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 CW, I appreciate your post - and your kind thoughts relative to my personal experiences. And I respect your opinions. In the cases close to me these were not teenagers, and their problems were solvable (one got a DUI, one had to file BK, one just lost his girlfriend to another friend...) had they bothered to confide in someone. Or ask for help. So to me, these were completely selfish. Circumstances are never uniform. I have no idea what a drug addict who commits suicide might be dealing with so perhaps that is not selfish (although I think it is). No matter what someone will have to pick up the pieces. To just walk away from life and those who love you without explination to me IS selfish. I'd give anything for all 5 of the people that touched my life in this way to come back for just 2 minutes and feel MY guilt. The guilt that I maybe could have done something for them. They never gave me that chance. They took it from me. Selfish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Whoa crap! Of course, I shouldnt have left that one out! Obviously the first thing I think about when my friend blows his brains out is if I have clean up his brain matter! Maybe you meant that some other way, but if you meant it to say who has to clean up his body, youre a jerk, just like I suspected. And fine, as for the soldier thing, there is no comparison. I never should have mentioned it... You truly are an idiot. in steffs defense tho, if someone kills themselves to "get back" at someone, that is truly selfish. Like cwsox said, there are times that the person just cant deal, and sees no other option. They want the pain to stop. Personally, I have never been to that point, but i can sure as hell see how someone with chronic pain or total lack of hope would consider it. Steff, please dont link all suicides to your experiences, because its just not fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 What does it have to do with a grieving widow and industrial accidents? Goddamn, can you get any more clueless with your analogies? What do you have against money anyway? I don't have much of it, but I don't obcess about hating it either. Or not...Then again, your're 16, you're supposed to think that way. Sure as hell beats teen angst I hate people who sue for death. The important thing should be mourning the persons death and not just making money of every friggen thing. If I were to die in an accident and my wife sued anybody for it, I hope my ghost would come back and strangle her. Im making two promises here. Im going into the Marine Corps and I will never sue anyone for anything. Never. My lawyer suggests it and Ill fire him. I hate people who sue. Annoys the living piss outta me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 CW, I appreciate your post - and your kind thoughts relative to my personal experiences. And I respect your opinions. In the cases close to me these were not teenagers, and their problems were solvable (one got a DUI, one had to file BK, one just lost his girlfriend to another friend...) had they bothered to confide in someone. Or ask for help. So to me, these were completely selfish. Circumstances are never uniform. I have no idea what a drug addict who commits suicide might be dealing with so perhaps that is not selfish (although I think it is). No matter what someone will have to pick up the pieces. To just walk away from life and those who love you without explination to me IS selfish. I'd give anything for all 5 of the people that touched my life in this way to come back for just 2 minutes and feel MY guilt. The guilt that I maybe could have done something for them. They never gave me that chance. They took it from me. Selfish. Its their choice. If I know about, Ill try everything to stop them. I would physically restrain him but it doesnt always work. But its their choice. If anyone ever commits suicide, I wont feel robbed, Ill just feel sad. Very sad. Nothing else. Just total sadness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 In fact, I hate lawyers too. So forget the whole thing about ever firing one, cuz I aint ever gonna have one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 Roman....has anything tragic ever occurred to you in your life? You've never thought "Is suicide right? Of course not....that is just not right for me. I'm gonna live my life to the fullest" ??? If you have....and I'm sure you have done atleast that...then that is atleast thinking about it. I've done that before....and it just doesn't sound right. I'd rather be living on the streets then being dead....plain and simple. There are too many wonders in life not to live it to the fullest. Roman...something tramautic will happen to you in your life time....and it will bring you to your lowest low - there are far too many things too terrible to mention that could happen - and I'm sure suicide will cross your mind, and you will be strong enough to get through it, because you seem like a strong human being.... ....even if you have some questionable ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Roman....has anything tragic ever occurred to you in your life? You've never thought "Is suicide right? Of course not....that is just not right for me. I'm gonna live my life to the fullest" ??? If you have....and I'm sure you have done atleast that...then that is atleast thinking about it. I've done that before....and it just doesn't sound right. I'd rather be living on the streets then being dead....plain and simple. There are too many wonders in life not to live it to the fullest. Roman...something tramautic will happen to you in your life time....and it will bring you to your lowest low - there are far too many things too terrible to mention that could happen - and I'm sure suicide will cross your mind, and you will be strong enough to get through it, because you seem like a strong human being.... ....even if you have some questionable ideas. Like Brando says, it crosses the mind of even the best of people. Life brings just as many downs as ups, if not more. Some of those downs are beyond our control and very tragic. In addition, of COURSE you probably wouldnt kill yourself if youre sane......some peoples brains are f***ed up by drugs, brain damage, or mental illness. It just isnt fair to say all suicides are selfish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 One of my close friends had deep depression and was toying with suicide. Seeing BMR suggest drugs, he actually used marijuana and like many other cases, the psychotropic properties of it helped to change his mindset and it made him a bit more positive. Then he was able to use that with counseling to feel a lot better. Then some clinical research helped to back that up. He was ready to kill himself and it took a few of us to try to polish off an old magic brownie. And that led him on his path to recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 One of my close friends had deep depression and was toying with suicide. Seeing BMR suggest drugs, he actually used marijuana and like many other cases, the psychotropic properties of it helped to change his mindset and it made him a bit more positive. Then he was able to use that with counseling to feel a lot better. Then some clinical research helped to back that up. He was ready to kill himself and it took a few of us to try to polish off an old magic brownie. And that led him on his path to recovery. I was speaking of hard drugs. I dont consider pot a drug..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 One of my close friends had deep depression and was toying with suicide. Seeing BMR suggest drugs, he actually used marijuana and like many other cases, the psychotropic properties of it helped to change his mindset and it made him a bit more positive. Then he was able to use that with counseling to feel a lot better. Then some clinical research helped to back that up. He was ready to kill himself and it took a few of us to try to polish off an old magic brownie. And that led him on his path to recovery. I was speaking of hard drugs. I dont consider pot a drug..... Neither do I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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