Dyson vacuum cleaner

[Iwritecode]

I've been seriously looking at getting one of these things but I'm really reluctant to spend $300-$600 on a vacuum.

 

On the other hand, I figure I've probably spent at least that much already on the last 3 POS ones I've bought in the past couple years. So if these new Dyson vacuums are as good as advertised it might be worth the investment. Supposedly they never lose suction.

 

Every other vacuum we've ever owned has sucked. Or not sucked I guess...

[Gene Honda Civic]

Dear lord,

 

If I ever get to the point where I'm so concerned about the performance of my vacuum that I put a post on an internet message board, please strike me down. I've obviously lost the will to live.

 

Signed,

The Cheat

[Balta1701]

Dude, you are both going to love me and hate me after this next comment...give me 20 or 30 minutes to type the thing in full.

[Balta1701]

I spent 3+ years selling Kirby vacuum cleaners door to door.

 

I am no longer employed for the company, as I am now a graduate student at Caltech (this is my real career...as opposed to selling Kirby's, which I did entirely to save money to move out here)

 

Therefore, this is my honest opinion as a former salesman of those vacuums.

 

If you are looking for a vacuum cleaner which will:

 

1.) Last longer than any other vacuum on the market right now

2. ) do a better job of cleaning your home than any other vacuum on the market right now

3. ) In the long term save you more money than any other vacuum on the market right now:

 

My opinion is this: You are wasting your money if you purchase anything other than a Kirby vacuum cleaner. I have nothing financially to gain by telling you this - this is my honest, personal opinion after working as a carpet cleaner for 1 year with Heartland Carpet Care (based in Portage, Indiana) followed up by 2 years as a salesman working for a Kirby distributorship in Dyer, Indiana.

 

There are several flaws with the "Dyson" system that are obvious to anyone who seriously knows how the technology works.

 

First and foremost...their vacuums are made largely of plastic. The Kirby system is made of 100% aluminum.

 

The problem with a plastic vacuum overall is very simple; plastic is less durable than any sort of metal. The real problem with plastic is this; when you hit a plastic vacuum against a solid object, like a wall, the plastic tends to bend. You won't see this with your eyes - it's too rapid of an effect. But what is actually happening is this; to absorb the impact, the plastic frame of the vacuum buckles slightly (about 10 degrees or so) in order to avoid major fractures due to the force applied. The problem is this:

 

Almost every plastic ever known to man will develop what are called "Microfractures' when they are placed under extreme stress for a limited amount of time. The concept of these fractures are very simple; imagine the front of a vacuum slamming at full speed into a wall. The vacuum slows from full speed to zero velocity in a microsecond. In order to take up this stress, the only thing the skin of the vacuum can do is bend to take up the strain. Think of a stack of papers which you push on from both ends...it bends into a fold. You've seen this dozens of times in your life...push on anything which is composed of a thin layer of some flexible material and it does the same thing.

 

When you bounce a vacuum cleaner off of a wall, the exact same thing happens...in order to accomidate the stress, the plastic lining of the vacuum bends slightly. The real problem is...plastic does not bend easily like the piece of paper you can hold in your hand - plastic is much more resistant. In the full extreme of plastic bending...instead of trying to fold, plastic materials deform by some combination of bending of molecular bonds combined with breaking of those molecular bonds...if any of the bonds reach a specific yield stress which is the value which would cause them to break.

 

So...what am I saying? I am saying that any vacuum built out of a material which can exceed the yield stress of the material of which it is constructed will fail within a short timespan. Sadly, the stress due to a vacuum bumping at full speed into a wall or a couch is easily enough to exceed the yield stress of the plastic shell of a Dyson vacuum, or any other plastic-based-vacuum cleaner, over the timescales involved in deformation of the vacuum due to an impact.

 

So, let me make this as clear as I can...you slam your vacuum into something, the vacuum deforms due to the impact, and you form microfractures in the skin of the vacuum.

 

What can microfractures do? The real key is this...air is much less dense than any solid in existence...so even the smallest fracture in plastic will cause airflow through the plastic where the fracture exists. If many fractures exist, the airflow through the plastic will be very significant, and if the plastic frame of a vacuum is undergoing this process of repeated microfracturing (all it takes is a bump against a couch) then the strength of the vacuum will gradually DECREASE with time, as the frame of the vacuum cleaner itself becomes gradually weaker with time.

 

The only reason I tell you this is that I have seen it with my own eyes. As a Kirby salesman...we have instruments which allow us to perform independent tests on the "Suction power" of vacuum cleaners, with all other variables held constant. I can tell you this as an absolute fact...as vacuum cleaners age, their "Suction power", however you want to measure it, undergoes a rapid decline. It is massive...to the point that if your vacuum lasts 5-10 years without needing replacement (i.e. the motor turns on)...the suction power of the vacuum approaches ZERO. In other words...you're running the motor of the vacuum, but you're not really pulling any air out of the carpet itself when you're running the thing - all of the air pulled in by the motor comes through the skin of the vacuum itself as it builds up these microcracks.

 

So why do I own a Kirby vacuum myself? Because instead of the vacuum being made of plastic, the skin of my vacuum is made of aluminum. While this adds quite a bit to the cost of the device...the difference in performance is absolutely massive...as when you hit an aluminum device against a wall or a couch, it does not deform like a cheap plastic appliance does. Aluminum is immensely stronger than plastic...thus, when it hits something, aluminum does NOT reach its yield strength, and therefore does not begin the process of microfracturing which can rapidly decrease the performance of a vacuum.

 

What does this mean about the vacuum itself? It means that the vacuum will last MUCH MUCH longer than your normal plastic machine. Based solely on the nature of the shell, your average Kirby Machine will last 30-40 years. I can tell you this, because I have seen it with my own eyes - Kirby vacuums built 30+ years ago perform a better cleaning job than any other machine on the market today other than the modern Kirby machines and 1 other machine called the "Royal" (which basically takes advantage of expired Kirby patents). The 30 year old aluminum Kirby's do a better job of cleaning than the 3 year old Hoovers, Dysons, and any other brand (proof forthcoming).

 

I bought a Kirby 2 years ago, so I am not saying anything I am not willing to risk my own dust-mite-allergic lungs on myself. There will be more vacuum science in my next post.

[Balta1701]

Please folks, don't reply until I finish my next detailed comment...this is totally serious, and as a dust-mite allergy suffering person, I really do mean every word....

Edited December 3, 2005 by Balta1701

[Balta1701]

OK, the next topic which we're going to discuss, which is the 2nd reason why I spent the money to buy my own Kirby, is the performance of the vacuum itself. I feel I've already established why the Kirby lasts far longer than any other machine (send me a PM for more full technical details if you want, I'll be happy to provide after I finish my finals and I have more sober time to type)...now I will establish why the Kirby performs far beyond any other machine, and why it saves you money far beyond any other machine.

[Balta1701]

Ok, as my nest, and my personal favorite example as to why modern "Vacuums" don't work, aside from the fact that after 5 or so years their suction is gone...we're going to delve into the designs of the vacuums themselves. Forgive me if I swear a little bit here...aside from the pitching contracts that the Yankees and Diamondbacks signed last offseason...this may very well qualify as the single stupidest thing I have seen in my lifetime.

 

This next topic is one of many obvious flaws built into the design of your modern vacuum on the shelves at Sears or any other department store. The sad part about the Dyson machine is that it corrects one of the minor flaws, and leaves the consumer stuck with a $500 machine still trying to function with the major flaws (like being made out of cheap plastic) still dominating.

 

What I would ask you to do next is this: go look at the "Hose" configuration of your standard vacuum cleaner at any store you want...whether it's Sears, Pennys, whatever. Pick your brand...Hoover, Dyson, etc.

 

Here's your task...follow the main hose. The main "hose" connection always runs first directly from the motor to whatever air filter there is on the vacuum. That's the standard way of designing a machine. Use the hose vacuum to pull air through the system. There are 2 key problems with this design...the first has only been solved on the Kirby, and the 2nd has only been solved on the Kirby and the most expensive of other machines.

 

First...the Kirby has a metal plate behind the fan which runs the main vacuum. The key part of this plate is that it directs all of the dirt picked up by the Kirby away from the motor, such that no dirt gets into any of the moving parts. No other vacuum has this protection system - the other machines actually move air in a path which takes dirt and grit directly past the motor, which can wear out/burn out the motor within a shockingly short time (Leading to those horror stories you'll hear about vacuums that last 6 months to 1 year). The Kirby avoids this problem by sending the air on an alternate path - totally avoiding the motor, so that you never have problems with the operation of the system due to the motor wearing out.

 

Beyond the problem of pulling dirt directly through the motor...there is an even more foolish problem in my opinion...that being the pulling of dirt from only 1 side of the machine.

 

Here you can see a prime example of this flaw in a $600 Dyson machine...there is only 1 pipe in the "Head" of this vacuum, and it isn't on the side you're looking at. The only hole which pulls in air is on the far left hand side. This is obviously idiotic...as suction decreases with distance from the source of the suction. We have tests which can prove this conclusively....on the side a a large distance from the main hole....the vacuum basically does absolutely nothing (While new)...simply because the hole is too far away from the material you're trying to pick up.

 

I've dealt with a few of the key problems with modern "vacuum" cleaners in these posts, including the Dyson models. None, in my opinion, come close to the Kirby in terms of either cleaning performance or longevity. That's why I purchased one myself, and why I use it regularly.

 

No vacuum cleaner on the market today is build like the Kirby. Is it expensive? Yes. ou will need to pay 2x the price of your average dyson to get one. But here's the key; over the long term, it actually costs less to own a Kirby than a Dyson.

 

It's hard for me to demonstrate this over the internet, but I have seen it with my own eyes. A Kirby will pull sandy material out of a carpet which a Dyson will not.

 

As a Kirby salesman...we had a test where we would run the opposing vacuum (including DYsons) over any carpet somewhere between 50-100 times. We would then vacuum with the Kirby only 10 times and still pull up significant amounts of sand.

 

The sand that the Kirby removes is horrible for a carpet if it stays in there. Imagine a piece of sandpaper being ground over a piece of carpet - sand grains in a carpet do the same thing. They cut the carpet fibers and wear down the pile, making the carpet look work. By using a kirby on this carpet...you actually get the ability to remove the sand, which can significantly lengthen the life of the carpeting in ANY house...no matter the kind of carpeting the house has.

 

On average, the carpeting in a house will last somwhere between 10 and 20 years. With a Kirby, this value can be easily doubled, simply by removing the sand from a carpet. By removing a large portion of the sand grains, the carpet wears out much slower, and it has been shown that the carpet need replaced on a much longer timescale. So, if you buy a Kirby to care for the carpet, instead of replacing the stuff on a 10-20 year timescale (depending on how much you care about wear on it) you'll wind up replacing it on 20-40 year timescales.

 

If each carpet replacement costs $20 -$30,000, this is an absolutely massive savings in itself, ignoring all the other benefits of a Kirby.

 

Again, I am telling you this based on my own experience selling Kirby's and seeing the opposing equipment. While the Kirby costs 2-4 times the cost of your average plastic machine, it easily overwhelms that cost in temrs of longevity and savings through peformance. On top of the savings through simple vacuuming, there are many options that can save you more money through easy cleaning of your carpets yourself and other features.

 

My personal advice is this, and it's quite simple.

 

Having seen what I've seen, I would never, EVER spend the money on any other machine. Pick your other machine an PM me, I'll tell you its flaws. No machine on the market even comes clsoe to the Kirby. Not in the least. In my opinion...if I walk into a house with a Dyson, I basically expect to sell the Kirby within 10 minutes, because I know how filthy the carpets will be without even vacuuming the things, simply because of the machine they're using.

 

Again, if you want more details, PM me or schedule a Kirby Demo yourself (want a good deal? You're talking to the right person...I know their pricing structures). I hav e no financial interests in this...but if you spend money on a Dyson to take care of the carpets in your house, you are absolutely out of your mind.

[qwerty]

No one should EVAR know that much about a vacuum.

[Balta1701]

No one should EVAR know that much about a vacuum.

That's roughly 1/8 of what I know about them. That's why the PM suggestion was included.

[NCsoxfan]

A couple of questions...

 

1. Didn't Trump sell vacuums before he was famous?

 

2. With all that knowledge of Kirby's, were you actually a pretty good salesman?

[Rex Kickass]

This is what i love about SLAP. Every once in a while, one of us shows the scary softer side of ourselves.

[Kyyle23]

Balta, that was a threadjack of Juggernaut/ID proportions.

 

 

Personally I own a 27 year old Electrolux that performs now as well as it did the day it was bought. It isnt anything pretty, but it gets the job done well and has a retractable cord, which is probably my favorite feature

[DePloderer]

I'll cut to the chase. My wife arranged for a "free" carpet clean that we had "won". Along comes a fella with a Kirby vac and cleans our carpets, does a great job. Then the hard sell (FYI I've been in sales for 20+ years myself) the opening price was £3000+ after much back and forth his "boss" (via telephone) offered a returned one for £450, he left without a sale. We bought a Dyson for £250, this was four years ago and it has never failed.

While I agree the Kirby is the best vacuum cleaner made, who in their right mind would spend that kind of money on something to clean the carpet?

[Gene Honda Civic]

I'll cut to the chase. My wife arranged for a "free" carpet clean that we had "won". Along comes a fella with a Kirby vac and cleans our carpets, does a great job. Then the hard sell (FYI I've been in sales for 20+ years myself) the opening price was £3000+ after much back and forth his "boss" (via telephone) offered a returned one for £450, he left without a sale. We bought a Dyson for £250, this was four years ago and it has never failed.

While I agree the Kirby is the best vacuum cleaner made, who in their right mind would spend that kind of money on something to clean the carpet?

Yeah, what's it gonna cost you to completely replace the carpet?

 

588-2300

 

next day new carpet.

[Balta1701]

Yeah, what's it gonna cost you to completely replace the carpet?

 

588-2300

 

next day new carpet.

Plus you throw in the cost of replacing that plastic vacuum when it does wear down, plus you throw in the cost of replacing your furniture which you can keep up with a Kirby, plus you throw in the price of having your rugs shampooed (I need to do that next weekend btw), plus you throw in the fact that the Kirby is the only machine built which can actually do a deep dust-mite extraction from a mattress...the average person spends something like $5000+ on replacing things that they could just maintain with a Kirby.

[sox4lifeinPA]

The problem with a plastic vacuum overall is very simple; plastic is less durable than any sort of metal.

 

is hard plastic is more durable than liquid aluminum...........?

[SnB]

this thread made me cry.....just a little.

[Balta1701]

this thread made me cry.....just a little.

My work is complete.