Cerbaho-WG Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 My own opinion, but I probably have a better grasp of what to do than K-Dub: First, fire Manuel. Self explanatory. Trade Konerko. Too slow, one dimensional. Trade for position players. Have Daubach as your 1B for he time being. Trade Thomas. For pitchers who don't light up the damn gun. Get pitchers who have great stats. Keep C Lee, let him leave as a FA. Get your Type A compensation, laugh your way to the bank. Give Crede until the A-S break to get out of his funk. If he struggles, trade him; more position players. If White is a Type A or B player keep him, if he isn't trade him for a PTBNL of little value to the opposing organization. Ditto with Gordon. Call up Almonte, Ring to replace them. Trade Jon Garland for an outfielder to replace C Lee. J.D. Drew would be nice, won't happen. Get speed, somehow some way. See if Loaiza continues his success throughout the year, if he does, pick up his option. Nothing to lose. Try to resign Colon, when he asks for 10+ million, laugh and get your comp picks. Let Jose Valentin go, get your comp picks. Spend saved money on an outfielder/1B and a good shortstop. Draft s***load of players with your umpteen thousand picks in the first round. Follow stats, take minimal risks on high hyped players. Plan your future rotation WITHOUT Buehrle: Rauch? Cotts? Wing? Honel? Wright? etc etc. One of them WILL pan out, and you have Buehrle 'til 2006. Good fallback plan. Anoint Anthony Webster as God and as new Pope; Reed as pseudo-God. Fire your current scouts, they are most likely morons. Throw JR down a flight of stairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 why not just dump the whole f***in team and start over from scratch.... hell we have been rebuilding for years now .. whats another few?????? lol....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted May 20, 2003 Author Share Posted May 20, 2003 Look what Cleveland has done, and look at their position for the future. That's what you have to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Look what Cleveland has done, and look at their position for the future. That's what you have to do. we did that once before.......remember the white flag sale days??????? look at where it got us....absoultely no where......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted May 20, 2003 Author Share Posted May 20, 2003 The White Flag trade got the Sox a massive four-five prospects. With the trading and comp picks that Mark Shapiro got, he got at least a DOZEN players that will help him eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Look what Cleveland has done, and look at their position for the future. That's what you have to do. Cleveland looks real good down the line. Made some good trades and acquistions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Not saying I agree with ya, but it definately sounds like the JR way. You don't spend a time and now JR knows he'll have at least one fan in favor of it. I just think this team is in need of some serious retooling. The question is if they start retooling can the team be saved. Like I have said in the past, I can't think back of a team that completely retooled a club (With 2 to 3 trades) during the season and was able to pick themselves up. Beane seems like the type of manager willing to do it, and he semi did it, but without a major move and it was pretty easy for him knowing he's gonna get the pitching. This team needs to get faster, better defensively and more balanced. Rotation wise and bullpen I still like it, but White has worn out his welcome. Use him as an extra player in a deal. To me I think the Red Sox would have some serious interest in Flash Gordon and if we package him with Konerko we could get some serious help. I'd love to get Nixon and I'd love it even more if they could lure Freddy Sanchez and Nixon out of Beantown. Then bring Almonte up instead of Flash. Trade Jose Valentin to San Diego for Ramon Vazquez (At least make an offer for it - IF you can't get Sanchez). Most will ream me on that idea but I think Vazquez could have a bright future. If we have a shortstop, then we can either keep him and just use him in a utility role and have him play some DH or trade him for bullpen help. I'd like to bring Kyle Farnsworth in from the northside, I'm convinced the Cubs are going to have to move one of their relievers and he's the one they will move and I think his value is down and I really trust Cooper to make a few minor adjustments. We still have some strong guys in the pen, but will have to count on some younger arms, but I love and trust Coop. Defense is way better, offense is much less one dimensional. Vazquez and Nixon can steal and now Daubach can play almost everyday. The big thing I think of is shed some salary because we got to think like JR and I know one thing I don't want Colon going anywhere, so shed some money here and there and find a way to give him his contract. Losing Jose and Konerko would easily be more then enough to sign Colon and Buehrle long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Not that Cleveland WON'T be good in 2005-2006, but don't forget how the national media was gushing about the Sox and all of their young talent in 2000. What ever happened to the that No.1 farm system? Promise is just that, promise. Rather than get rid most of the team via trade, release, or free agency, KW needs to target specific areas to improve. Team speed and a left handed power hitter are top on the list. Pitchers like White could be traded or released to make room for some of the (hopefully) talented pitchers in the minors. Prediction: Carlos Lee will never be a good player for the Sox. He is too undisciplined - but I guarantee that he'll have a great season for another club. Hey, sometimes that happens - its baseball... look at Loiza this year for the Sox. In order to improve team speed, a player like Lee or Konerko (who I like but can't seem to get it together) has to make way for a center fielder who can play defense and team with Olivo to improve our defense up the middle. The Sox don't have that player in their system (Borchard has corner outfielder written all over him) and will have to trade for him or sign him. In the meantime, I'd love to see a guy like Rios get some more ABs and see what happens. The Ordonez thing in Center is interesting but not a long term solution. There is no quick fix for this team - but a few small moves this year could make them more competitive than they are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 why not just dump the whole f***in team and start over from scratch.... hell we have been rebuilding for years now .. whats another few?????? lol....... HSC , SOX are not that far from having to do it again, this mixture of players is NOT working on ANY level. JM and KW must go. It is amazing JM sat in dugout now he acts like he gives a s*** under a little pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idseer Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 why doesn't anyone believe me when i say this team is poisoned from the top down? as long as jr reigns supreme this team will not succeed. he could completely reinvent this team for next year but nothing will change. jr will not have people under him who won't do things his way. it's the way he puts his organization together. if not for the incredible luck of having probably the greatest player who ever lived playing for his basketball team, and one of the greatest coaches (and neither were appreciated by their organization) the bulls would have gone down the same path .... the path they currently travel. you can talk forever about what this team should do ... who should be traded ... who should be brought up ... etc, but the only operation that will help this club is a jr-ectomy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 IMO, you do one of two things, come July, if we are at .500 or hovering right around there, give or take a few games. You either sell the team off, similar to how cerb said. We would suck big time then for 3-4 years. The other thing you could do is try to get Carlos Beltran. It could kill us in the end, trading to a divisional opponent, and we wouldn't be able to keep him(see Bora$$), but it would give us a shot to salvage the season. I would give them Garland, Malone(with what little value he has left), and Jimenez(I will probably get ripped for that one). You then put Harris at 2B full time....and that's the biggest risk of all. If he rips the cover off the ball and ignites the team....great. If not, you are dicked. The lineup for a few games would then be Harris, Valentin, Ordonez, Beltran, Thomas, Lee, Konerko, Crede, Olivo. I would then trade one of Konerko or Lee, whoever the team we are trading with wants, for a solid starting pitcher....a rent-a-pitcher. We then go in with either a strong 1-2-3 punch or a 1-2-3-4, depending upon how Loaiza fairs all year long. I'd assume they want Lee. You then just sell off Konerko to any team that is willing enough to take him. I'd even take on some of his salary. You then play Daubach at 1B, and Borchard in either LF or RF. The lineup is then Harris, Valentin, Beltran, Ordonez, Borchard, Thomas, Daubach, Crede, Olivo. Very balanced as far as lefty and righty hitters go, and team speed is increased. JMHO anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Cleveland looks real good down the line. Made some good trades and acquistions. Shapiro did a heck of a job. They may be playing like crap right now, but they are going to be pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Cerbaho: You have some great ideas, BUT, Frank is untradeable. No one will take him, and he can refuse any trade if there was one due to the 10/5 rule. AND, who would take Konerko.? His trade value is zero. Other than that, your ideas are better than KW's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 AND, who would take Konerko.? How about the Orioles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 How about the Orioles? That could very well work as well. I love Jay Gibbons, but we ain't getting him. Ponson for Konerko. In the past I would of said are you nuts, but right now I'd be willing to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Why would the Orioles take Konerko? They have Segui and Conine. No one will take him off our hands. Maybe the Mets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Why would the Orioles take Konerko? They have Segui and Conine. No one will take him off our hands. Maybe the Mets? Well Segui and Conine aren't long term answers. I did see in Rogers column the name Darren Dreifort and oh my goodness would I love to acquire him. I don't give a damn about his arm injuries, he's not only an awesome teammate but he has electric stuff. Last season while rehabbing he was in the Dodgers dugout for every game (He just didn't travel because of the rehab). Now thats how it should be. Thats never going to happen though. In regards to the Mets, we'd have to take on some salary, I'm assuming Roger Cedeno (don't know how long he's signed for) and then hope to get a prospect or something as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 why doesn't anyone believe me when i say this team is poisoned from the top down? as long as jr reigns supreme this team will not succeed. he could completely reinvent this team for next year but nothing will change. jr will not have people under him who won't do things his way. it's the way he puts his organization together. if not for the incredible luck of having probably the greatest player who ever lived playing for his basketball team, and one of the greatest coaches (and neither were appreciated by their organization) the bulls would have gone down the same path .... the path they currently travel. you can talk forever about what this team should do ... who should be traded ... who should be brought up ... etc, but the only operation that will help this club is a jr-ectomy. I agree 100%, the only thing JR cares about is his wallet. Even if KW and JM were fired JR would just go out and find the cheapest possible replacements without giving a thought to weather or not they are they are capable of doing the job. Time to retire and enjoy those sunset years JR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 That could very well work as well. I love Jay Gibbons, but we ain't getting him. Ponson for Konerko. In the past I would of said are you nuts, but right now I'd be willing to do it. And if we got Ponson, that would then make Garland available. Lee and Garland along with a prospect or two could get us something that we possibly need. Right now....we need a GM that will put his job on the line and make several ballsy moves to help get this team into contention. I don't know many GMs that would even consider doing that. We need a very gutsy GM. With my plan....you'd already be making one move that would make or break the whole process in using Willie Harris at 2B and having him leadoff. It is either do that or trade for Luis Castillo(and that would be fine with me too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 The good thing is Backman is a cheap option and he's also a very good option. In regards to hiring a gm, I want the Sox to go outside of the organization. I am hoping that Backman is one of those guys that won't be someone elses puppet and if we go outside the organization then I'm hoping we can get one of those good young minds and they won't be a puppet either. JR just has to put baseball people in charge and let them do their stuff. From what I always heard he was usually pretty good at this, he just has the final say on moves (Because of the Finances of it). I really think its KW that wants control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 That could very well work as well. I love Jay Gibbons, but we ain't getting him. Ponson for Konerko. In the past I would of said are you nuts, but right now I'd be willing to do it. And if we got Ponson, that would then make Garland available. Lee and Garland along with a prospect or two could get us something that we possibly need. Right now....we need a GM that will put his job on the line and make several ballsy moves to help get this team into contention. I don't know many GMs that would even consider doing that. We need a very gutsy GM. With my plan....you'd already be making one move that would make or break the whole process in using Willie Harris at 2B and having him leadoff. It is either do that or trade for Luis Castillo(and that would be fine with me too). Well I'd say our GM is gutsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 lets be honest here.. with the way this team is playing rigtht now if im the gm... i take a rope and tie a noose in it, slip it over my head and kick the chair out from under me............geez us can things get any worse?????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Well Segui and Conine aren't long term answers. I did see in Rogers column the name Darren Dreifort and oh my goodness would I love to acquire him. I don't give a damn about his arm injuries, he's not only an awesome teammate but he has electric stuff. Last season while rehabbing he was in the Dodgers dugout for every game (He just didn't travel because of the rehab). Now thats how it should be. Thats never going to happen though. In regards to the Mets, we'd have to take on some salary, I'm assuming Roger Cedeno (don't know how long he's signed for) and then hope to get a prospect or something as well. We can't trade for Darren Dreifort. We'd try and Kw would acquire a AAA OF by the name of Daren Dryfort instead. Danny Evans has that effect on KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 We need to be careful..... ask for KW's head and we could have Josh Shaffer playing SS ahead of Jose by the AS break! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 We need to be careful..... ask for KW's head and we could have Josh Shaffer playing SS ahead of Jose by the AS break! LOL Lol - at least it would mean that Yan is playing in Birmingham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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