Phils, Cubs talk Abreu-for-Prior swap

[Pierzynski 12]

DALLAS - Pat Gillick and Charlie Manuel want pitching for their team. They're not bashful about asking for it.

 

According to National League sources at the winter meetings here, the Cubs asked the Phillies yesterday what it would take to pry away two-time All-Star rightfielder, Gold Glove winner and reigning Home Run Derby champion Bobby Abreu.

 

The answer: Mark Prior.

 

The Cubs didn't say yes.

 

But they didn't say no, either; at least, they haven't so far.

 

The Cubs did say they would not consider dealing Carlos Zambrano, who is taking his turn atop their pecking order of promising young pitchers, following Kerry Wood and Prior, who is 25.

 

The session with the Cubs was one of several meetings conducted by Gillick, the Phillies' new general manager, and his brain trust, including Manuel. Gillick doesn't comment on specific ongoing negotiations, though he has said he thinks the Phillies need a top-of-the-line starter.

 

Yesterday, he said he and his entourage picked up with several teams where they left off during the GM meetings a month ago in Palm Springs, Calif.

 

"We're trying to get a feel for where people are now," Gillick explained on a relatively quiet first day of the meetings. That said, when the Phillies talk to teams now, they're getting down to business.

 

"We're past the generalities stage," Gillick said.

 

Making a deal such as Abreu-for-Prior would require more than just buying airplane tickets for the principals.

 

Abreu, 31, would have to waive his full no-trade clause, and, as of yesterday, the Phillies have not approached Abreu's camp about that, sources said. Of course, that doesn't preclude the Phillies from shopping first and asking later.

 

Also, the Phillies owe Abreu $31 million for the next two seasons. Prior, who has spent part of each of his three full seasons on the disabled list, has 1 year worth $3.1 million left on his contract, after which he is arbitration-eligible.

 

Prior, a righthander, is 41-23 with a 3.24 earned run average since hitting the big leagues in 2002. He finished third in Cy Young Award voting in 2003, his first full season. In his last 10 starts last season, Prior was 4-3, 3.73, with 76 strikeouts in 60 1/3 innings. Eight of those starts were quality starts, and none was appreciably awful.

 

If the Prior deal doesn't work out, the Phillies might try one that includes Abreu and Cubs workman starter Jerome Williams - but with serious sweeteners that could include lefty prospect Rich Hill, 25. Hill's status could be shifting from untouchable to movable. He went 11-4 with a 3.31 ERA and 194 strikeouts in 130 2/3 minor league innings last season, though he was 0-2 with a 9.13 ERA in 10 big-league appearances.

 

If nothing works out with the Cubs, the Phils could look elsewhere to trade for starting pitching, perhaps moving outfielder Jason Michaels to Pittsburgh for Mark Redman. Reportedly, interested parties include the Red Sox, who are willing to part with Matt Clement, and the Astros might deal Brandon Backe and setup man Chad Qualls.

 

While they're here, the Phillies - eager to include a lefty starter in their rotation - can at least ask the fire-selling Marlins if they will change their mind about trading Dontrelle Willis for prospects; inquire if the Orioles' Erik Bedard is truly unattainable for Abreu; and find out if the Oakland A's Barry Zito is available to them at all.

 

This rotation improvement is necessary mainly because enigmatic talent Vicente Padilla has not become a top-of-the-rotation starter. After an organizational meeting in October, the Phillies determined they would offer Padilla arbitration by Dec. 20. However, since Gillick came aboard last month, that evaluation has changed.

 

"It's too early to tell," Gillick said. "We've had a lot of discussions about Padilla."

 

Padilla, 28, who made $3.2 million last season, would likely command about $4 million in 2006, despite a second consecutive injury-marred campaign in which he was an inconsistent 9-12 with a 4.71 ERA. If the Phils retain him, he could be moved to the bullpen to compete for the setup job.

 

That job also could fall to Ryan Madson.

 

Manuel also said Madson would have a chance to join the starting rotation if the Phillies acquire significant bullpen help and don't flesh out their rotation.

 

For what it's worth, Manuel also said he'd consider Gavin Floyd for the back end of the rotation if Floyd earns it in spring training.

 

So, after Day 1 of baseball's annual jocular commingling, the Phillies remained aggressive with other teams while avoiding a free-agent talent pool Gillick characterized as tepid.

 

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/13338004.htm

[Punch and Judy Garland]

You cant trade Prior if you are the Cubs. WOod yes, Prior pretty much no except for guys like Miggy Carbera, Pujols an d a few otehrs who aren't going anywhere.

[Balta1701]

If the Cubs could convince the Phils to take KWood's contract as a salary dump, then that might be a good idea for them...although I don't know how well trading Wood and Prior would go over with the city.

[mr_genius]

If the Cubs could convince the Phils to take KWood's contract as a salary dump, then that might be a good idea for them...although I don't know how well trading Wood and Prior would go over with the city.

 

 

I would imagine most trades involving Wood would require the Cubs eating some of his contract. I don't think he's much of a 'hot' commodity these days.

[Balta1701]

I would imagine most trades involving Wood would require the Cubs eating some of his contract.  I don't think he's much of a 'hot' commodity these days.

I would agree...but Abreu is not exactly "Cheap" either...and despite his first half last year, I'm not sure he's ever really put up the numbers to justify his contract...yeah he had a high OPS some years, but on average since 2001 it seems he comes out to around .900, and he's only hit 30 home runs 2 times in his career.

[shakes]

This will never happen.

[nitetrain8601]

I would agree...but Abreu is not exactly "Cheap" either...and despite his first half last year, I'm not sure he's ever really put up the numbers to justify his contract...yeah he had a high OPS some years, but on average since 2001 it seems he comes out to around .900, and he's only hit 30 home runs 2 times in his career.

 

Look at the SB's as well. He's a complete player. Prior for Abreu straight up would be fair.

[mr_genius]

I would agree...but Abreu is not exactly "Cheap" either...and despite his first half last year, I'm not sure he's ever really put up the numbers to justify his contract...yeah he had a high OPS some years, but on average since 2001 it seems he comes out to around .900, and he's only hit 30 home runs 2 times in his career.

 

 

True, but Wood is basically finished IMO. Abreu has atleast some value to a team (even though he is also overpaid). I think most teams also think Wood has little or no value. 9.5 million a year is a lot to pay for a player that I would say is about 85% likely to suffer a season/career ending injury early next season.

[whitesoxfan101]

Not even Hendry could be dumb enough to do this.....it would be pretty fun if he did though.

[SoxFan562004]

I have this vision of a red faced Jim Hendry stomping from team to team throwing a tantrum like a 3 year old saying "You are all big meanies, Pittsburgh's GM said he would trade Cory Patterson for Abreu straight up. Come on guys, everyone wants to play in a stadium that has an ancient, small locker room and Dusty Baker is their manager!"

[Chisoxfn]

Look at the SB's as well. He's a complete player. Prior for Abreu straight up would be fair.

The Cubs would be getting fleeced, imo.

[nitetrain8601]

The Cubs would be getting fleeced, imo.

 

I don't think so. It would be pretty even. The problem with the Cubs is that they can't depend on their other starters so they have to keep whoever they have and hope they don't get hurt.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

If Abreu were 25, then the trade would be far more intriguing as he'd be entering his prime and would likely not make a ton of money yet but age/cost prevent that. Plus, how bad would the Cubs look if Prior becomes the next ROger Clemens after they traded him? Would not be good ofr them

[nitetrain8601]

If Abreu were 25, then the trade would be far more intriguing as he'd be entering his prime and would likely not make a ton of money yet but age/cost prevent that. Plus, how bad would the Cubs look if Prior becomes the next ROger Clemens after they traded him? Would not be good ofr them

 

You can't go into trades thinking what if the guy we trade turns out good. You have to think what if the guy who we get turns out good or not.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think it's a fair trade considering Prior has been on the DL like 5 times already. I don't think the Cubs will go for it anyway. I don't see why they even asked to tell you the truth. What garbage are their team outside of Prior or Zambrano could Philly possibly want?

[Chisoxfn]

I don't think so. It would be pretty even. The problem with the Cubs is that they can't depend on their other starters so they have to keep whoever they have and hope they don't get hurt.

A healthy Prior (and I see no reason to believe he'll be an injury prone pitcher; I could be wrong though) for an older, highly paid Abreu would be absolutely foolish.

 

Prior can be a perennial (and has already proven he can be) Cy Young candidate, plus he makes a whole lot less money. That doesn't even go on to mention that he's quite a bit younger (just getting ready to enter his prime) and well a really good pitcher is a lot tougher to find than a good hitter.

[GoodAsGould]

I cant see how people think trading a guy like Prior at his age would be a good idea for an older more expensive hitter. First off pitching >>> hitting....... Unless it was like Bonds when he was 31 or something like that its a bad trade.

[Jordan4life_2007]

A healthy Prior (and I see no reason to believe he'll be an injury prone pitcher; I could be wrong though) for an older, highly paid Abreu would be absolutely foolish.

 

Prior can be a perennial (and has already proven he can be) Cy Young candidate, plus he makes a whole lot less money.  That doesn't even go on to mention that he's quite a bit younger (just getting ready to enter his prime) and well a really good pitcher is a lot tougher to find than a good hitter.

 

You see no reason to believe he'll be an injury prone pitcher? 4 or 5 trips to the DL before the age of 25 is plenty of reason.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I cant see how people think trading a guy like Prior at his age would be a good idea for an older more expensive hitter.  First off pitching >>> hitting....... Unless it was like Bonds when he was 31 or something like that its a bad trade.

 

The Cubs won't do it. The Phillies just let them know that it's gonna take a little bit more than some of their overhyped prospects to get Abreu.

[Chisoxfn]

You see no reason to believe he'll be an injury prone pitcher?  4 or 5 trips to the DL before the age of 25 is plenty of reason.

I put some of that blame on Baker, however, some of those trips were totally fluke injuries (getting smacked by a baseball, etc.).

 

That said he puts little stress on his arm and the only reason he's had any of the problems he's had is because Baker is a total dips*** when it comes to managing his staff (I was busy saying this the year the Cubs were a few outs shy of making the world series and I guaranteed that half of there rotation would end up being on the DL most of the season). He still pitched 166 innings this past year and has a 200 inning season under his belt.

 

Simply put, if we think AJ Burnett just signed a fat contract, imagine what Prior would get on the FA market. I'm thinking 13-15 mill a year for 5. But if the Phils get Prior they would be getting him at well under market value while if Abreu were to become a FA today he'd probably make right around what he's getting now (if not a little less).

 

Plus pitching >>> hitting and Prior is not even in his prime (Abreu is right at the end of his prime).

[Jordan4life_2007]

I put some of that blame on Baker, however, some of those trips were totally fluke injuries (getting smacked by a baseball, etc.).

 

That said he puts little stress on his arm and the only reason he's had any of the problems he's had is because Baker is a total dips*** when it comes to managing his staff (I was busy saying this the year the Cubs were a few outs shy of making the world series and I guaranteed that half of there rotation would end up being on the DL most of the season).  He still pitched 166 innings this past year and has a 200 inning season under his belt.

 

Simply put, if we think AJ Burnett just signed a fat contract, imagine what Prior would get on the FA market.  I'm thinking 13-15 mill a year for 5.  But if the Phils get Prior they would be getting him at well under market value while if Abreu were to become a FA today he'd probably make right around what he's getting now (if not a little less). 

 

Plus pitching >>> hitting and Prior is not even in his prime (Abreu is right at the end of his prime).

 

I can agree with this. I'm just glad the Phillies aren't being stupid. They shouldn't even think of dealing Abreu unless it's for Prior or Zambrano.

[Soxbadger]

Prior is much better than Abreu. His injuries have been more than anything bad luck. Every year Prior is going to have a chance at being the Cy Young.

 

If I were the Cubs id offer Wood for Abreu, take it or leave it. Some one will trade a hitter for Wood, especially if the Cubs take on most of the contract.

 

SB

[SoxFan562004]

Prior is much better than Abreu. His injuries have been more than anything bad luck. Every year Prior is going to have a chance at being the Cy Young.

 

If I were the Cubs id offer Wood for Abreu, take it or leave it. Some one will trade a hitter for Wood, especially if the Cubs take on most of the contract.

 

SB

 

i have to respectfully disagree with his injuries being all bad luck. Last years injury was a bizarre episode that was never really explained. Remember he had the elbow soreness in ST, they shut him down for a week, then that stretched into a month, the Cubs came out publically and said the MRI's and exams were showing nothing and said sometimes pitchers have to pitch with pain.

 

With that said, I agree that Abreu for Prior or Zambrano doesn't make any sense for the Cubs, and I agree with a previous poster that said it was likely the Phillies saying if you want Abreu we are going to ask for a ton, so don't waste our time with prospects. Gammons has said a few times that if the Phillies trade Abreu it will be for a 1 or 2 pitcher or they won't do it.

Edited December 7, 2005 by SoxFan562004

[Steve9347]

Trade him, Cubs. See what your fans do.

[heirdog]

Prior, while he has spent time on the DL, is not injury prone in my opinion. He was dominant as a 23-year-old so the Cubs have been especially careful with him...putting him on the DL when he has the slightest injury. Its time to let him play and with his fluid motion, he should be a solid pitcher for 10 more years.

 

So Prior at 25 with his cheap contract >> Abreu at 31 with his mega-bucks