Juan Pierre a Cub

[Ricky3353]

I heard Phil Rodgers on the score today and he said he wasnt too thrilled with this deal. The two pitching prospects (not Mitre) are suppossed to be big time, right behind rich hill and angel guzman in the organization. Pierre sucks anyway. He might swipe 50 bags but his on base percentage in atrocious and he has a weaker arm than my grandma.

[Pierzynski 12]

He has a weaker arm than my grandma.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny.

[Rowand44]

I love how everyone here just bashes the hell out of Pierre for one bad season.

[ZoomSlowik]

Great, so now they have one legit OF in Pierre. They'd have definitely been better off with Furcal however, and they only have Pierre for one year. Not only is Pierre a possible liability defensively, I'm not sure I'd count on him hitting as well as he used to this year. One thing to consider is that for a slap hitter like Pierre, you'd rather play in a spacious park than a band-box like Wrigley. There's less ground for the OF's to cover, meaning some of his bloop hits and hanging liners aren't as likely to fall in for a hit. That can easily be the difference between .300 and .275. That also probably robs him of most of his triples and possibly a couple of doubles. Furcal has more gap power and relies on bloop hits less, meaning I'd expect him to hit for a comparable average and considerably more power.

 

Another possible issue is that they don't have a good small-ball type player that consistently makes contact behind him like Luis Castillo (is Walker going to start? If so, that improves the situation a little, but not much). That will hurt his run production because he will probably be forced to try to steal more often in order to get in scoring position, especially since Baker doesn't seem to be a big fan of bunting the guy over or using the hit-and-run. Unless Lee duplicates his performance of last season (highly unlikely), I don't see Pierre having the impact that they hope/think he will.

Edited December 7, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[Pierzynski 12]

I love how everyone here just bashes the hell out of Pierre for one bad season.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's a Cub now so we can bash him all we want.

[whitesoxfan101]

He's a Cub now so we can bash him all we want.

 

Exactly!!!

[MarlinFan84]

Once again my only complaint is that we didnt get a position prospect back. Sure Pie or Murton for Pierre straight up wasn't going to get it dont, but we could of sweetened the deal some. Not as furious about this as the others...us not getting Shoppach(or trading Dook to the Dbacks when an offer with Snyder was on the table)are the ones that really burn my ass.

[CWSGuy406]

I'd rather trade them for good position prospects right now.  TB would probably take Mitre for Gathright.  Throw in another prospect to Tampa Bay and we have Reid Brignac, or see if they will bite for Upton.  Either way, we fill the need @2B and CF.  Now all we need is a good young LF.  Seattle wants Villone back, package him with a prospect for Jeremy Reed.  There, our OF and IF is complete, maybe another young C somewhere since all we have is Willingham...all bat and no D, and Jourgenson and Treanor, all D and no bat. 

 

Geez, you Marlin fans really love your slap hitting, no power, CFers, huh?

 

You really want Gathright? Ick...

[Rowand44]

I love how slap hitting gets thrown around as an insult, explain that to me? Juan Pierre and Joey Gathright are guys who aren't paid to hit the ball out of the park. They're leadoff hitters, they're paid to get on base so when the middle of the order hitters are up they aren't hitting solo homers.

[Yoda]

The top of the Cubs lineup will be a lot better. If Dusty Baker ever finds out how to make a ML lineup for his team, then he should know that Walker needs to bat in the #2 hole. He's a .290/.348/.441 hitter and is a good lefty who can hit the ball in all directions. Then guys like Derek Lee and Aramis Ramirez can drive in Pierre or Walker.

[CWSGuy406]

I love how slap hitting gets thrown around as an insult, explain that to me?  Juan Pierre and Joey Gathright are guys who aren't paid to hit the ball out of the park.  They're leadoff hitters, they're paid to get on base so when the middle of the order hitters are up they aren't hitting solo homers.

 

Meh -- I'm not a fan of a guy who had all of 43 x-tra basehits in 1200+ minor league at bats. Unless you're OBP is ungodly, that's not a big help to an offense.

 

I wouldn't be able to stand Gathright on the Sox. I've heard people who've watched Gathright say he has absolutely no clue what he's doing in the OF. It'd drive me insane watching someone with his speed only be an average CFer.

 

He put up a pretty decent line at Durham this year, but I dunno -- he doesn't look like he'll walk at an incredibe enough rate to be a very good player...

[Rowand44]

Meh -- I'm not a fan of a guy who had all of 43 x-tra basehits in 1200+ minor league at bats.  Unless you're OBP is ungodly, that's not a big help to an offense. 

 

I wouldn't be able to stand Gathright on the Sox.  I've heard people who've watched Gathright say he has absolutely no clue what he's doing in the OF.  It'd drive me insane watching someone with his speed only be an average CFer. 

 

He put up a pretty decent line at Durham this year, but I dunno -- he doesn't look like he'll walk at an incredibe enough rate to be a very good player...

He's not a good defensive cf that is for sure, so that's a fair point. I'd love him offensively though but obviously me and you have different opinions on this so no biggy.

Edited December 7, 2005 by Rowand44

[WHarris1]

He's not a good defensive cf that is for sure, so that's a fair point.  I'd love him offensively though but obviously me and you have different opinions on this so no biggy.

Always starting arguments. :headshake

[Chisoxfn]

I heard Phil Rodgers on the score today and he said he wasnt too thrilled with this deal. The two pitching prospects (not Mitre) are suppossed to be big time, right behind rich hill and angel guzman in the organization. Pierre sucks anyway. He might swipe 50 bags but his on base percentage in atrocious and he has a weaker arm than my grandma.

I'd rate them both ahead of Guzman. Guzman has had his fair share of arm troubles and while he is more talented than the two names, I prefer two guys that haven't had a history of injury problems (plus they both have pretty good stuff too).

[Chisoxfn]

He's not a good defensive cf that is for sure, so that's a fair point.  I'd love him offensively though but obviously me and you have different opinions on this so no biggy.

You and I are on one side, Keith and a few others are on another side of this argument.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Those 2 pitchers Pinto, Nolasco are very good pitching prospects I seen them both too many times this year.  Pinto is a 22 year old lefty with some nasty stuff he was started in AAA this season and struggled he was promoted to soon but when he came back down to West Tenn the first week of May he was awesome the rest of the season he led the SL in K's per 9 innings at 11.62.  Nolasco also has good stuff led the SL in K's with 173 he is only 23 and has never seen AAA ball yet.  The 2 combined in the SL were 24-6 2.75 ERA and 301 K's.  So this deal actually has the chance to be great for the Marlins

 

Thanks, Bham. I was just gonna post something similiar to this before I saw your post. The Cubs hardly fleeced the Marlins.

[CWSGuy406]

You and I are on one side, Keith and a few others are on another side of this argument.

 

You're a fan of Gathright, of players in his mold in general...?

 

BTW -- in the coming weeks, expect to receive a PM from me.

Edited December 8, 2005 by CWSGuy406

[Chisoxfn]

You're a fan of Gathright, of players in his mold in general...?

 

BTW -- in the coming weeks, expect to receive a PM from me.

I'm not a fan of Gathright on the Sox, but yes I think Gathright has some potential. I've long said it would be dumb for the Sox to trade for him because he's about as much of a ?? as Anderson and I'd take a guy like Anderson over him.

 

I'm just saying I have zero problem with slap hitters, as long as they are in the 1-2 or 8-9 holes. They also need to have a good eye and good speed (to steal bases) otherwise they are a little less valuable.

 

Hell, Bill Mueller is what I'd call a slap hitter and I'd take him on my team (assuming i have enough pop at other spots).

[SoxFan562004]

It will be interesting to read the papers reaction to this move tomorrow, because the immediate reaction on the radio was mixed.

 

While the call in fans liked this move (and I really don't blame them, Pierre is a good player and this team absolutely had to get a leadoff hitter, and at this point he was basically the only one of value left) but the hosts and some of the "experts" (levine, offman, gammons) basically said yeah, it's an solid move but this was clearly their #2 choice, Furcal being their #1 by a long shot, and they really were planning on getting both of them.

 

Most also pointed out that Hendry has a lot more to do specifically a RF another starter (espically since Baker said Wood likely won't be ready opening day) and probably another middle infielder.

 

Offman also said that any deal that will be made likely will involve Jerome Williams FWIW.

[Balta1701]

Offman also said that any deal that will be made likely will involve Jerome Williams FWIW.

So that would what, leave the Cubs with Maddux, Prior, Zambrano, Wood, and Rusch in their starting rotation? Do they have a backup plan? Or two?

[SoxFan562004]

So that would what, leave the Cubs with Maddux, Prior, Zambrano, Wood, and Rusch in their starting rotation?  Do they have a backup plan?  Or two?

Yeah, that was my initial reaction to that too, espically since Baker himself said Wood won't be ready for opening day.

 

I don't know if this was pure speculation, but Offman said he expects the Cubs to emerge in Millwood talk. One reason would be that Wood's future is so much in doubt and Maddux contract is up after this year, so the Cubs might have to start putting people in place for their future rotation. Again, this kind of seemed like he was purely speculating. Although it makes some sense to me because Cubs have money and IMO they seriously need another starting pitcher.

[Bo4HOF]

I'd rather trade them for good position prospects right now.  TB would probably take Mitre for Gathright.  Throw in another prospect to Tampa Bay and we have Reid Brignac, or see if they will bite for Upton.  Either way, we fill the need @2B and CF.  Now all we need is a good young LF.  Seattle wants Villone back, package him with a prospect for Jeremy Reed.  There, our OF and IF is complete, maybe another young C somewhere since all we have is Willingham...all bat and no D, and Jourgenson and Treanor, all D and no bat. 

 

We have a bullpen already with Bowyer, Kensing, Tankersly, Bostick, Resop, Delgado, and Messenger. 

 

Use Tyler as the #4 starter next year and the year after as a stop gap for Chris Volstad.

 

First of all, great site you guys have here. Congrats on your WS title.

 

That's some bullpen you have put together for the Marlins, 84. Adam Bostick isnt ready and Delgado(I assume Jesus) isnt even close to ready. Bostick struggled for command in AA giving up almost 6 walks per 9. His era was less than stellar in this pitcher's paradise as well(4.67) As for Delgado, let's let him get promoted past A-ball before you give him a spot in the bullpen. Taylor Tankersely also needs atleast a month or 2 in the minors to give him a spot in the bullpen.

 

Now you suggest using Scott Tyler as the #4 starter for the Marlins next year? Do you just make stuff up? He hasnt passed A-ball either yet and I wouldnt exactly say he dominated it either.

 

And do you have a clue about Josh Willingham? He will quickly be one of the better offensive catchers in the NL, and it appears new Marlins manager Joe Girardi is gonna help him be a better defensive catcher as well.

 

and a big LOL to "lets see if the DRays bite on BJ Upton"... thats too cute

[Milkman delivers]

Maybe the Cubs will look into acquiring someone other than Millwood, such as Washburn or Weaver?

[Rowand44]

Maybe the Cubs will look into acquiring someone other than Millwood, such as Washburn or Weaver?

Well you've covered the Boras clients. Honestly, the Cubs could definitely use another starter but with their the holes left at short and in right I'm not sure whether they'll be acquiring a starter.

[Milkman delivers]

Well you've covered the Boras clients.  Honestly, the Cubs could definitely use another starter but with their the holes left at short and in right I'm not sure whether they'll be acquiring a starter.

 

Notice how just about all of the FA SP's that remain are Boras clients. Gee, that's odd that he'd let them hang around until teams are desperate to get whatever starters they can get, eh?