Grossman Upgraded to 2nd string

[WHarris1]

I'm going to say that anyone that points at this game as the reason why Orton should be benched as being an idiot with zero football sense.

No one is saying that. This was actually a good game for Orton's standards...

 

Fact of the matter is Orton is doing nothing for our offense. Why not see what Rex can do behind this new offensive line and with Moose as his #1 option? You can say Rex has never done anything in the past but look what he had around him, honestly...

 

Right now games are being won in spite of Kyle Orton providing next to nothing, why not give Rex a shot? You shouldn't be able to lose a job becuase of injury as it is.

[Chisoxfn]

Yeah it's not like we have an elite WR, a 1000 yard rusher or a more than solid offensive line or anything...

 

What point are you trying to make by saying you were right this team wasn't bad?  I was here all offseason defnding this team tirelessly.

I'm simply saying that a bunch of you are totally impatient and just go on your emotions and thats pointless.

 

Orton or Grossman won't make a difference this year. We will go as far as our defense and rushing game carries us. We won't win a game all year based on our QB play. We will lose games based on our QB play (if they turn the ball over).

 

We are a ball control offense that should get short fields. I'd like to see us better take advantage of the short fields. Anything more is an unrealistic expectation of this current team. We have zero 2nd receivers (that have ever proven anything in the NFL), no TE, and a rookie QB.

 

I've long said if we had a premier QB we'd be a super bowl team (no doubt in my mind), but we don't have Carson Palmer or Peyton or even Farve. Rex isn't one either and at this stage in the game thats what it would take, imo.

 

We will fall short, but I stick by my thoughts that we will win one playoff game and this will be a key building year towards our super bowl run next year (or the following year).

[Gene Honda Civic]

The QB made of glass with less career TDs than Ryan Fitzpatrick is our savior!

[whitesoxfan101]

I'm not impatient or going on emotions. Orton sucked ass today as always, typical game for him, but the defense didn't play amazing and win for him, so it just is much easier to see how bad he is when we don't win. However now apparently we should keep playing Orton because 9-4 is still good, it's the defense fault we lost, and Rex has an average set of numbers in 6 games he played with s*** around him.

 

I'm amazed this argument is even happening.

[Chisoxfn]

No one is saying that.  This was actually a good game for Orton's standards...

 

Fact of the matter is Orton is doing nothing for our offense.  Why not see what Rex can do behind this new offensive line and with Moose as his #1 option?  You can say Rex has never done anything in the past but look what he had around him, honestly... 

 

Right now games are being won in spite of Kyle Orton providing next to nothing, why not give Rex a shot?  You shouldn't be able to lose a job becuase of injury as it is.

I have really never gotten into an argument over Rex or Kyle. I happen to think both will be good NFL qb's and I think long-term (if healthy) both can be guys that lead this team to a Super Bowl (well help, they will never really lead this team to the superbowl, but they will be a part of the team).

 

My thoughts are that Rex nor Kyle are going to make the Bears a super bowl team, so why create a total controversy that can have a really negative impact on the team, when in all realisticness, neither are going to be the reason this team wins the superbowl (they could be the reason we don't win it, but only if they turn it over). We aren't going to ask either of them to win games and that is seen based on how we call the games as well.

 

We don't exactly give our QB's the opportunities to throw for 250-300 yds and a bunch of TD's. Typically we are in 3rd and long and teams will double team Mushin and we'll throw short. They don't want to risk turnovers and thats just our coaching staffs philosphy (i'm not saying thats right or wrong, but thats just where its at this year).

 

Because of that I feel that we really have no change between two of them so why create a total controversy. I expect a full blown battle in training camp and I think it will be interesting. I also expect to draft a TE and to go after a guy like Reggie Wayne, Randle El, etc.

[WHarris1]

I'm simply saying that a bunch of you are totally impatient and just go on your emotions and thats pointless.

 

Orton or Grossman won't make a difference this year.  We will go as far as our defense and rushing game carries us.  We won't win a game all year based on our QB play.  We will lose games based on our QB play (if they turn the ball over).

 

We are a ball control offense that should get short fields.  I'd like to see us better take advantage of the short fields.  Anything more is an unrealistic expectation of this current team.  We have zero 2nd receivers (that have ever proven anything in the NFL), no TE, and a rookie QB. 

 

I've long said if we had a premier QB we'd be a super bowl team (no doubt in my mind), but we don't have Carson Palmer or Peyton or even Farve.  Rex isn't one either and at this stage in the game thats what it would take, imo. 

 

We will fall short, but I stick by my thoughts that we will win one playoff game and this will be a key building year towards our super bowl run next year (or the following year).

We are basically on the same page I am just saying...why not give Rex a shot when our passing games has already hit complete rock bottom?

 

You say Orton doesn't turn the ball over, and that is true. THe only problem I have is that he doesn't make ANY plays. He will hit a wide ass open receiver, as a 3rd stringer could. But other than that he doesn't make tough throws. For example today, 3rd & goal from the 13 he had a man in the endzone and missed him, that kinda thing costs a team 4 points.

[Chisoxfn]

The QB made of glass with less career TDs than Ryan Fitzpatrick is our savior!

I just want to add one thing. There have been quite a few people close to the org that have hinted that Rex isn't 100% yet and doesn't have his timing (its been a long time since he's played a regular season game).

[WHarris1]

The QB made of glass with less career TDs than Ryan Fitzpatrick is our savior!

No he's not the guy with the worst QB rating in the NFL and worse career numbers than Rex is!

[White Sox Josh]

Orton had a good game. The Offensive line was awful and the Receivers didn't help either. He went out and threw for 207 yards and no interceptions. Was he perfect? No, but this should've been good enough to win. The Defense crapped their pants today.

[Chisoxfn]

We are basically on the same page I am just saying...why not give Rex a shot when our passing games has already hit complete rock bottom?

 

You say Orton doesn't turn the ball over, and that is true.  THe only problem I have is that he doesn't make ANY plays.  He will hit a wide ass open receiver, as a 3rd stringer could.  But other than that he doesn't make tough throws.  For example today, 3rd & goal from the 13 he had a man in the endzone and missed him, that kinda thing costs a team 4 points.

Clark was double teamed, I don't think he was exactly wide open. I've seen him make some really good throws and some horrid ones. He's a rookie and there is no reason to expect him to dominate. I also see no reason to expect Rex to dominate this year either.

 

My thoughts is that to create a controversy when your team is winning and is coming off an 8 game streak would be foolish. I think the fallout could be worse.

 

What if Rex comes in and stinks, than you go back to Kyle but have pretty much told Kyle you don't think he's good. You also have quickly thrown Rex out and now you have two guys with downed confidence entering the playoffs. Thats what I think will happen to if we go to Rex.

 

I think we'll win with either of them, but I don't think Rex has had enough reps to be able to come in and lead this team to a win (the defense could, just as it did for Kyle). I also think it takes more than two weeks or so in practice for a QB (who hasn't played a regular season game in pretty much 2 seasons) to gain any sort of timing of chemistry.

 

Talent wise I Think Rex is just a nod better than Kyle. However, I think Kyle has a better QB build and the ability to see over a line (he's got a few inches on Rex). However, I think Rex has always shown really good pocket presence.

 

Both have very strong arms but I'd say Rex's is more accurate at this point. I think both are 1st round talents (so don't tell me that Rex is better simply because he was a 1st round pick; I'm not pointing at you Willie either, just a general statement).

[WHarris1]

Orton had a good game. The Offensive line was awful and the Receivers didn't help either. He went out and threw for 207 yards and no interceptions. Was he perfect? No, but this should've been good enough to win.

9 points is good enough for a win?

 

Haha now you are blaming the offensive line, who are you Kyle's brother?

[WHarris1]

Clark was double teamed, I don't think he was exactly wide open.  I've seen him make some really good throws and some horrid ones.  He's a rookie and there is no reason to expect him to dominate.  I also see no reason to expect Rex to dominate this year either. 

I'm not saying Clark was wide open but that was a makeable throw and it didn't happen.

 

I really don't think there would be too big of a fallout from sitting Kyle for Rex it's not like there are a whole lot of guys standing up for Kyle in the locker room as it is.

[Chisoxfn]

I'm not saying Clark was wide open but that was a makeable throw and it didn't happen.

 

I really don't think there would be too big of a fallout from sitting Kyle for Rex it's not like there are a whole lot of guys standing up for Kyle in the locker room as it is.

I don't know. The offensive line has backed Orton pretty much all season. Kyle is tough, gets up and makes no excuses for his play. They like Rex too, but I really dont' think there is any internal argument right now.

 

This team is unified, despite some stupid report that acts as if there is a mutiny in the lockeroom and that half the team wants Grossman back.

[WHarris1]

I don't know.  The offensive line has backed Orton pretty much all season. Kyle is tough, gets up and makes no excuses for his play.  They like Rex too, but I really dont' think there is any internal argument right now. 

 

This team is unified, despite some stupid report that acts as if there is a mutiny in the lockeroom and that half the team wants Grossman back.

I really don't think a QB change either way would be too big of a deal in the locker room. The defense/oline probably don't give a damn the only person I can see having an opinion is a guy like Moose who would like to have Rex back in.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Orton had a good game. The Offensive line was awful and the Receivers didn't help either. He went out and threw for 207 yards and no interceptions. Was he perfect? No, but this should've been good enough to win. The Defense crapped their pants today.

 

 

Oh mur---der they gave up 21 whole points. May as well have been 50 with Orton leading us. On the bright side we managed an offensive touchdown this week. WOO HOO!!! Probably be our last one this season. ( I'm only half joking )

[White Sox Josh]

If Grossman started this game we still wouldn't of won. I love the Grossman lovers:

Grossman fan: Orton only threw for 68 yards against Green Bay we need more yards.

Orton Fan: Well he throws for 207 yards against a top ten defense

Grossman fan: Well I just feel rex would give us a better shot.

 

NO REX WOULDN'T. Orton did a good job today and he did the best he could while playing with a BAD DEFENSE! What you want Orton to play defense. Was it Orton's fault that the Bears couldn't stop a simple screen play? No. I am sorry but this one goes on the defense. PERIOD!

[Gene Honda Civic]

Bull.f***ing.s***.

 

Orton didnt have a HORRIBLE game for Bear standards(not saying much) but Orton had all the time in world out there today. The O-line played great.

Unless you wanted to gain positive yardage between the RT and LT

[Chisoxfn]

I really don't think a QB change either way would be too big of a deal in the locker room.  The defense/oline probably don't give a damn the only person I can see having an opinion is a guy like Moose who would like to have Rex back in.

Honestly, if the Bears annoited Rex there starter, I'd be all out rooting for him. I'd also hope that the team would open things up (I think more at fault in some of these games have been poor play calling by Turner). I also think Turner is calling a lot of these plays because they are doing everything they cna to protect Orton and basically ensure he doesn't make any mistakes (turnovers). The Bears care more about not turning it over than they do about making big plays on offense (imo). Thats just there general game plan and as a whole I agree with ball control, but they need to do a better job mixing up the plays. Pitt did an amazing job calling plays and pretty much taking the Bears pass rush out of the game (and if you do that you can pass on the Bears, especially without Mike Brown and Chris Harris).

[Chisoxfn]

Bull.f***ing.s***.

 

Orton didnt have a HORRIBLE game for Bear standards(not saying much) but Orton had all the time in world out there today. The O-line played great.

Considering we were dropping back all game I don't think the Oline played poor. The hits and pressure were due to the Bears being behind and the defense knowing they didn't really have to worry about the run.

 

However, they did a poor job run blocking (although they typically had an extra guy in the box, but the Bears have dealt with that all-season). I also can't knock the run blocking too much because we never really found ourselves in a position where we could stick to the run and establish the running game (which is a major problem if your the Bears). The same happened in the Cinncy game and this game reminded me a lot of it (except Orton wasn't the reason we lost).

[WHarris1]

I love the Orton lovers:

Orton Fan: Orton is so awesome we are winning with him!

Grossman Fan: He has the worst QB rating in the league...

Orton Fan: So stats don't matter, it's Lovie Smith/Ron Turner/George Halas/Michael Jordan's fault Orton can't complete over 50% of his passes and put up a QB rating over 80.

Edited December 11, 2005 by WHarris1

[Chisoxfn]

I love the Orton lovers:

Orton Fan: Orton is so awesome we are winning with him!

Grossman Fan: He has the worst QB rating in the league...

Orton Fan: So stats don't matter, it's Lovie Smith/Ron Turner/George Halas/Michael Jordan's fault Orton can't complete over 50% of his passes and put up a QB rating over 80.

Where do I stand in this? I'm neither, I like both. I just think its crazy to say one or the other is going to carry us to the Super Bowl this year. If we need our Qb to throw for 250 Yds and 3 Td's to win the super bowl, well we won't be winning the SB.

[WHarris1]

Where do I stand in this?  I'm neither, I like both.  I just think its crazy to say one or the other is going to carry us to the Super Bowl this year. If we need our Qb to throw for 250 Yds and 3 Td's to win the super bowl, well we won't be winning the SB.

Haha my bad, I was more mocking Josh becuase he blindy hates Rex and loves Orton so much. You are actually being very fair Jason.

[Chisoxfn]

Haha my bad, I was more mocking Josh becuase he blindy hates Rex and loves Orton so much.  You are actually being very fair Jason.

Gracias.

 

I know one thing, Rex has shown better in game ability in his short time, but he has also shown total frailty on the field. I'm not saying he's injury prone cause I think they were both turf related injuries, but it does say something. Orton has taken all the hits and has been a part of this team and is on his way to playing a full season. Being a part of a playoff team as a 4th round rookie should be worth something, imo. I don't think either will be great this year.

 

I guess which you want to go for depends on where you see this team finishing. I see us winning 1 game and if the stars aligned winning a 2nd game (if we get a bye, that may be enough to go to the Super Bowl) but I can't see winning the super bowl.

 

Not if were playing Indy or San Diego (who I think is going to lose today against the Phins, I actually picked it). Hell San Diego may not make the playoffs cause I'll be absolutely shocked if the Steelers don't win out and make the playoffs.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Note to Willie: At no point does quoting White Sox Josh ever help your argument. On the rare occasion that I've agreed with him, I've found myself questioning my position on that particular issue.

[White Sox Josh]

if you are gonna quote me at least quote me right dude. Edited December 11, 2005 by White Sox Josh