Lakers @ bulls.

[WHarris1]

This team is just unbelieveably frustrating to watch.

[nitetrain8601]

This team is just unbelieveably frustrating to watch.

 

Got that right.

[Kyyle23]

the refs havent really called any fouls either way the whole game though. The Bulls and Lakers have been beating each other up

[whitesoxfan101]

I give the Bulls credit. They played like absolute f***ing s*** in every phase of the game tonight, and that's not easy to do.

 

Worst loss of the year, losing to a bad team at home and being terribly outplayed throughout.

[qwerty]

That's cool the Pippen got his number retired, but I still think he was very lucky to be with Jordan, along with many other players. He would've been a good, solid player non the less, but who knows if he would've been Hall of Fame material without Jordan.

 

Would have been better in my opinion and would have gotten alot more recognition. He was the best all around player in the league the when jordan went to try out baseball.

Edited December 10, 2005 by qwerty

[SoxFan1]

Would have been better in my opinion and would have gotten alot more recognition. He was the best all around player in the league the when jordan went to try out baseball.

Agreed. MVP type numbers without MJ.

[maggsmaggs]

This is the season of the Bulls: some ups and downs. This is the kind of year its gonna be. But most importantly, we need a big man, Tyson blows, period. Ship his ass out if you can get anything for him.

[Rowand44]

Would have been better in my opinion and would have gotten alot more recognition. He was the best all around player in the league the when jordan went to try out baseball.

Bingo. He's still the best defensive player ever imo at his position. Jordan continues to overshadow Pip's accomplishments even with them both out of the game now. It's unfortunate.

[Chisoxfn]

Regardless of what happens tonight, this game REALLY shows how much we need Ben.  We've done a great job not turning it over, and still are struggling to score.  Without Ben's offensive firepower, we aren't the same.

Disagree, the Bulls just didn't shoot the ball well tonight for the most part. They got plenty of open looks. Hinrich played great.

 

They lost this game because they started the game horrid and than they couldn't protect the ball in the 4th quarter.

[nitetrain8601]

Would have been better in my opinion and would have gotten alot more recognition. He was the best all around player in the league the when jordan went to try out baseball.

 

I agree. Like someone said on RealGM. Put him on the Showtime Lakers in place of Magic and I bet he gets more recognition, has better numbers and is named one of the greatest PG's ever if not these best. His defense was stifling and his basketball IQ was off the charts. Add to that his athleticism and you have a great great player. Unfortunately, he'll always be in Jordan's shadow.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Would have been better in my opinion and would have gotten alot more recognition. He was the best all around player in the league the when jordan went to try out baseball.

 

Agreed.

 

And Jordan doesn't win six championships...

[SoxFan1]

The fact that he was so versatile is what really amazes me. He could start at PG with MJ at SG, he could start at SF with Pax at PG and MJ at SG and with Mike on the bench, he could be SG too. All with spectacular defense. He could guard anyone 1-4. Special player.

[WilliamTell]

idk, I just think he was more than a complimentary player, but not a superstar. And yes statistically when Jordan wasn't there averaging over 20 points, 8 rebounds, and 5 assists. That's very solid, but unlike some of the greats, when his career was ending, his ability statistically really took a hit.

[nitetrain8601]

idk, I just think he was more than a complimentary player, but not a superstar. And yes statistically when Jordan wasn't there averaging over 20 points, 8 rebounds, and 5 assists. That's very solid, but unlike some of the greats, when his career was ending, his ability statistically really took a hit.

 

He was old already. Look at Gary Payton's career. And Gary Payton is definately a HOF PG. He was better than Kidd for much of his career. Stats don't tell the whole story.

 

And complitmentary player? How do you explain '94 when he was within inches of winning the season MVP and when he won the All-Star game MVP?

 

Pippen was an awesome player in the shadow of Jordan. It's sad that Pip will never get the full recognition he deserved because he was definately an al-time great. The guy could do soooo many things.

[WilliamTell]

He was old already. Look at Gary Payton's career. And Gary Payton is definately a HOF PG. He was better than Kidd for much of his career. Stats don't tell the whole story.

 

And complitmentary player? How do you explain '94 when he was within inches of winning the season MVP and when he won the All-Star game MVP?

 

Pippen was an awesome player in the shadow of Jordan. It's sad that Pip will never get the full recognition he deserved because he was definately an al-time great. The guy could do soooo many things.

 

I know stats don't tell everyting but greatness is mostly based on stats and championships. For example, if it was based on defense, Bruce Bowen would be one of the most popular players in the NBA.

Edited December 10, 2005 by WilliamTell

[nitetrain8601]

I know stats don't tell everyting but greatness is mostly based on stats and championships. For example, if it was based on defense, Bruce Bowen would be one of the most popular players in the NBA.

 

I didn't say it was based purely on defense. It's based on impact on the game. Pippen had a huge impact on the game. There's a reason why he was almost MVP in 2002 with Portland with only 11ppg. He was a leader and helped in so many aspects of the game.

[WilliamTell]

I didn't say it was based purely on defense. It's based on impact on the game. Pippen had a huge impact on the game. There's a reason why he was almost MVP in 2002 with Portland with only 11ppg. He was a leader and helped in so many aspects of the game.

 

I used defense as an example and I honestly don't remember him almost being an MVP in 2002. You say it's a shame that he won't be considered one of the greats because he played behind Jordan. (And by the way I believe they both were very good players that complitmented each other as good as any in NBA history.) What is a shame are other players, notably John Stockton, who had nearly 20,000 points, the all-time leader in assists with nearly 16,000 and steals with over 3,000 steals doesn't get recognition about being apart of the all-time greats. There are just players that will be like that, Stockton is one of them, and so is Pippen.

[qwerty]

I used defense as an example and I honestly don't remember him almost being an MVP in 2002. You say it's a shame that he won't be considered one of the greats because he played behind Jordan. (And by the way I believe they both were very good players that complitmented each other as good as any in NBA history.) What is a shame are other players, notably John Stockton, who had nearly 20,000 points, the all-time leader in assists with nearly 16,000 and steals with over 3,000 steals doesn't get recognition about being apart of the all-time greats. There are just players that will be like that, Stockton is one of them, and so is Pippen.

 

Stockon is considered to be the best pure point guard in nba history by many, many people.

[Jake]

Seems like we have some Pip fans, so don't kill me. I never got the opportunity to watch in the dynasty days, so this is just what I've been told. Friend of mine says Pippen was definitely helped out a lot by Jordan. Says Pip looked great when the bulls were up by 20 and MJ had dropped 30-40 on the opposition, but when MJ wasn't making shots it was like Pip just turned off. I argued that didn't the bulls make the playoffs without him when he went to B-Ham? He told me that Pippen thrived around a lot of talent that was still left. I dunno.. you tell me what to think here.

[Chisoxfn]

Stockon is considered to be the best pure point guard in nba history by many, many people.

I think he's the best Pg of all time. Although I must say Magic gets some consideration, but I consider Magic more of a hybrid player.

 

I think Stockton was better than Kidd, although Kidd is a pretty darn amazing player.

[WilliamTell]

Stockon is considered to be the best pure point guard in nba history by many, many people.

 

I'm glad to hear that, when I listen in on basketball talk shows I hear the names of Bob Cousy, Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd, and Gary Payton as the best. I rarely hear of John Stockton.

[qwerty]

Seems like we have some Pip fans, so don't kill me. I never got the opportunity to watch in the dynasty days, so this is just what I've been told. Friend of mine says Pippen was definitely helped out a lot by Jordan. Says Pip looked great when the bulls were up by 20 and MJ had dropped 30-40 on the opposition, but when MJ wasn't making shots it was like Pip just turned off. I argued that didn't the bulls make the playoffs without him when he went to B-Ham? He told me that Pippen thrived around a lot of talent that was still left. I dunno.. you tell me what to think here.

 

Your friend needs to be slapped with a frying pan.

[Chisoxfn]

Your friend needs to be slapped with a frying pan.

Agreed and this is coming from someone that wasn't a huge Pippen fan. That said he's one of the greatest all time players (definately belongs on the 50 greatest list) and if the Bulls didn't have Jordan he'd have probably been the 3rd best player in the 90s (behind Stockton and Malone who would have been the greatest duo ever as far as I'm concerned).

 

Pippen was a stud defensively (one of the all time best defenders), was good offensively (I thought he took too many 3's, but he made the big ones) and was a very good passer. Plus the man knew how to use the backboard.

 

He should have been the MVP in 94 when the Bulls lost to the Knicks in 7 at the garden.

[Flash Tizzle]

He told me that Pippen thrived around a lot of talent that was still left. I dunno.. you tell me what to think here.

 

Pippen guided the Jordan-less Bulls to the Eastern Conference Finals in 1994. f***, he was under serious consideration for MVP. If not for a phantom foul call in New York, it could have been possible the Bulls retained their crown. He'll always be remembered for being Jordans 'sidekick,' but those who know the game realize he was a quality player in his own regard.

[WilliamTell]

Agreed and this is coming from someone that wasn't a huge Pippen fan.  That said he's one of the greatest all time players (definately belongs on the 50 greatest list) and if the Bulls didn't have Jordan he'd have probably been the 3rd best player in the 90s (behind Stockton and Malone who would have been the greatest duo ever as far as I'm concerned). 

 

Pippen was a stud defensively (one of the all time best defenders), was good offensively (I thought he took too many 3's, but he made the big ones) and was a very good passer.  Plus the man knew how to use the backboard. 

 

He should have been the MVP in 94 when the Bulls lost to the Knicks in 7 at the garden.

 

Alright! A Stockton and Malone prop right there! I think there's one thing all of us can agree on. Chicago got a hell of a deal with the trade in getting Pippen for Polynice I want to say.