YASNY Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Garland for Vasquez. Those guys are just the centerpieces for this possible trade. We don't know any more than that. There could be money, prospects or other ML players involved. Let's see what the trade actually is before we judge it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 05:09 PM) Garland for Vasquez. Those guys are just the centerpieces for this possible trade. We don't know any more than that. There could be money, prospects or other ML players involved. Let's see what the trade actually is before we judge it. But what fun would that be??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthSide2004 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I just found this on Foxsports.com from an article Ken Rosenthal posted 40 minutes ago: The White Sox are making a "strong, under the radar" bid to trade for Diamondbacks right-hander Javier Vazquez, according to a source with knowledge of the negotiations. The package of players that the Diamondbacks would receive is not known, though it could include a major-league starting pitcher — perhaps right-hander Jon Garland or Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez — and an outfield prospect such as Chris Young. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5163848 I don't like hearing all this "package" talk when Garland should be more valuable than Vazquez. I also don't like Chirs Young's name jumping into this. Not sure what trading El Duque and prospects would accomplish, but it would definately result in McCarthy in the pen or a trade of another starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Garland and Chris Young for Vazquez sounds pretty fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(SouthSide2004 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:13 AM) I just found this on Foxsports.com from an article Ken Rosenthal posted 40 minutes ago: The White Sox are making a "strong, under the radar" bid to trade for Diamondbacks right-hander Javier Vazquez, according to a source with knowledge of the negotiations. The package of players that the Diamondbacks would receive is not known, though it could include a major-league starting pitcher — perhaps right-hander Jon Garland or Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez — and an outfield prospect such as Chris Young. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5163848 I don't like hearing all this "package" talk when Garland should be more valuable than Vazquez. I also don't like Chirs Young's name jumping into this. Not sure what trading El Duque and prospects would accomplish, but it would definately result in McCarthy in the pen or a trade of another starter. I'll agree with your assesment of that little blurb. Garland plus? No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 09:15 AM) Garland and Chris Young for Vazquez sounds pretty fair. If Arizona paid Vazquez's entire contract, maybe. Otherwise, that's huge, massive, utterly ridiculous overpayment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 05:18 PM) If Arizona paid Vazquez's entire contract, maybe. Otherwise, that's huge, massive, utterly ridiculous overpayment. Obviously, I was being extremely sarcasitc with this. If KW does this move, it would basically negate all the good moves he's done the last few years (minus the World Championship!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(SouthSide2004 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:13 AM) I just found this on Foxsports.com from an article Ken Rosenthal posted 40 minutes ago: The White Sox are making a "strong, under the radar" bid to trade for Diamondbacks right-hander Javier Vazquez, according to a source with knowledge of the negotiations. The package of players that the Diamondbacks would receive is not known, though it could include a major-league starting pitcher — perhaps right-hander Jon Garland or Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez — and an outfield prospect such as Chris Young. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5163848 I don't like hearing all this "package" talk when Garland should be more valuable than Vazquez. I also don't like Chirs Young's name jumping into this. Not sure what trading El Duque and prospects would accomplish, but it would definately result in McCarthy in the pen or a trade of another starter. Garland is not more valuable. He has had one good year and is a free agent after 1 year. Players are always undervalued when they are a "rent-a-player" even if they have been consistently good. We may think he turned a corner last year but no one knows. If Hernandez is part of the deal then Young or one of the other top OF prospects probably Young is involved. This is because of the uncertainty of his health and the DBs desire for OF help especially CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:19 AM) I just dont understand how it can be El Duque OR Garland. There not exactly in the same tier of pitchers.... It could be for Garland straight up or El Duque + Young. Garland then could be traded to another team for something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowninginflame Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I hope it happens. Garland doesn't want to stay with us, so let him leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:26 AM) So then the Sox obviously dont feel comfortable for some reason with Mac as the 5th starter? Something just isnt right in this rumor..... No, you trade the Duke and Young for Vaz and then swing a deal where JG is involved, then you have: Mark, Jose, Freddy, Vaz, Bmac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:26 AM) So then the Sox obviously dont feel comfortable for some reason with Mac as the 5th starter? Something just isnt right in this rumor..... I wouldnt read that much into that. I would say they feel less comfortable with two pitchers who are at the end of their contracts in 06. They probably feel they can sign one of them and not both. Its about building something that can dominate without becoming the Yanks with their payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.J. Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Despite the surplus of starters it'd give us (which is not all that bad guys), El Duque + Young would be something we should do. Barring a career renaissance as a middle reliever, El Duque is not going to be of much use to us at all. And god bless Chris Young, he's a fantastic prospect, but we have outfielders all over the place and 3 spots to play them. Garland + Young is absolutely friggin ridiculous. That's a slap in the face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I tried to merge this, but since it's jumping forums, I don't have the authority to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthSide2004 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(ptatc @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 05:23 PM) Garland is not more valuable. He has had one good year and is a free agent after 1 year. Players are always undervalued when they are a "rent-a-player" even if they have been consistently good. We may think he turned a corner last year but no one knows. If Hernandez is part of the deal then Young or one of the other top OF prospects probably Young is involved. This is because of the uncertainty of his health and the DBs desire for OF help especially CF. I disagree on this. Garland is coming off a great year, Vazquez isn't. Garland should get somewhere around $7 million this year, Vazquez is going to get $11.5 million. While Garland is one year away from free agency, Arizona definately will get two picks for him if they don't sign him to a long-term deal. It's still too early to determine if the White Sox would get picks for Vazquez or even sign him to an extension. Most importantly, Vazquez is a headcase who has demanded a trade, while Garland is a perfect teammate. I don't see how one extra year of Vazquez at $12.5 million changes all of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(ptatc @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:23 AM) Garland is not more valuable. He has had one good year and is a free agent after 1 year. Players are always undervalued when they are a "rent-a-player" even if they have been consistently good. We may think he turned a corner last year but no one knows. If Hernandez is part of the deal then Young or one of the other top OF prospects probably Young is involved. This is because of the uncertainty of his health and the DBs desire for OF help especially CF. I'll admit that no one on this board really knows what JG is worth on the market. But I think he is more valuable than Vasquez. Vasquez has nice career numbers, but his last 2 years have not been good at all. Paying 12 million a year for 2 years of someone posting a 4.4 ERA in the NL? How is that kind of risk and salary worth more than 1 year of Garland at 7M with draft picks when he leaves? At very worst it's a draw. If Garland reverts to pre-2005 form he still wouldn't pitch worse than Vasquez did this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(R.J. @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:29 AM) Despite the surplus of starters it'd give us (which is not all that bad guys), El Duque + Young would be something we should do. Barring a career renaissance as a middle reliever, El Duque is not going to be of much use to us at all. And god bless Chris Young, he's a fantastic prospect, but we have outfielders all over the place and 3 spots to play them. Garland + Young is absolutely friggin ridiculous. That's a slap in the face. Unless something else was coming back our way. We have an overload of OF prospects. Maybe the Diamondbacks have something in their system that we are lacking and is a position of strength for them. Lets see the whole thing unfold. Remember the Thome trade. It was supposedly Contreras + Young or Bmac for Thome. How did that change. Names getting thrown out now is conjecture at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I don't think there's a chance in hell the DBacks will want anything to do with Duque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:31 AM) So lets just say we do trade Duke and Young/Sweeney/Owens for Vazquez. Mark-Freddy-Jon-Count-Vaz? I would say Jon or the Count would be traded after that move. Bmac would be in the rotation as a very economical number 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 09:31 AM) So lets just say we do trade Duke and Young/Sweeney/Owens for Vazquez. Mark-Freddy-Jon-Count-Vaz? I've said this before and I'll say it again... If Brandon McCarthy is not in our starting rotation next year, after what he showed us last year, I cannot be held responsible for my actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:31 AM) So lets just say we do trade Duke and Young/Sweeney/Owens for Vazquez. Mark-Freddy-Jon-Count-Vaz? No, then you swing a deal where you trade Garland for something of value in a seperate deal. As usual you are completely lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.J. Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I spoke to Chicago Tribune White Sox beat writer Mark Gonzales for his take on the rumor: "Don't think it's going to happen. They had a brief chat, and nothing is on the front burner as of late last week. Garland has become a bigger concern because of the free agent market." Just a little quote from this page to put things into perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:33 AM) No, then you swing a deal where you trade Garland for something of value in a seperate deal. As usual you are completely lost. Its scary when you and I are on the same page on this. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I would rather have BMac in our rotation. He is ready. If El-duque doesn't want to go to the pen then this trade makes sense for him and our team. I would much rather trade el-duque and young for Vaz than trade Jon G for him straight up. But then BMac gets the raw end of the stick. Unless this is just the first of things happening. Like Jon G and Josh Fields for Crawford? Okay now i am purely speculating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:34 AM) Its scary when you and I are on the same page on this. LOL I'm not advocating the deal, I'm just citing what would happen. So we're still not on the same page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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