Sox Acquire Javier Vazquez

[Stocking]

not sure why, but id prefer BA traded than Young. The way it sounds, KW is going to turn around and trade Garlnd for RP and possible an OF.

[SSH2005]

BTW I'm just gonna pose another question. If Brian Anderson was included in this trade instead of Chris Young, would Arizona still accept this deal, and would you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would rather have done that but the problem is that Anderson is viewed as being MLB-ready right now while Young isn't. We need a center fielder now. KW must invision a future outfield of Owens in LF, Anderson in CF, and Sweeney in RF. It makes sense since Kenny seems to love Anderson. I definately don't see KW giving up anymore outfield prospects now.

Edited December 14, 2005 by SSH2005

[Stocking]

I would rather have done that but the problem is that Anderson is viewed as being MLB-ready right now while Young isn't.  We need a center fielder now.  KW must invision a future outfield of Owens in LF, Anderson in CF, and Sweeney in RF.

But if KW is turning around and trading for an OF, include BA rather than Young

[hi8is]

shameless plug:

 

"myspace... if it wasnt for you guys, i wouldnt have had 8 women pay for a hotel room for me this year!"

[DBAHO]

Anyone else think an Abreu deal is forthcoming? I don't know why, I just have a feeling it might happen. The Sox are pretty much the only team that has what they want.

That's actually starting to make quite a bit of sense. I guess it depends on whether the Phillies can sign a set-up man like Brandon Looper. If they do, Ryan Madson moves into the rotation and they don't need a starter.

 

If they can't, then suddenly the trade market is a big option for them.

[DBAHO]

Yes, and HELL no.

 

We'd be in the same position as now--without two bullpen arms (unless you count McCarthy, which I dont), but in addition we'd have no CF.

I find that interesting though. By all reports Anderson is probably going to put up numbers from what we've seen of Jackass Jones for the past few seasons. But Young has that chance to be special, a Mike Cameron type, but better in the batters box.

 

Would Jerry Owens be ready to play in CF splitting time with Mackowiak? If so, then the Sox could have kept Young, traded Anderson, and set Chris loose in CF from 2007 onwards, assuming he performs in Charlotte.

[Flash Tizzle]

That's actually starting to make quite a bit of sense. I guess it depends on whether the Phillies can sign a set-up man like Brandon Looper. If they do, Ryan Madson moves into the rotation and they don't need a starter.

 

If they can't, then suddenly the trade market is a big option for them.

 

I'd love Abreu, but let's just speculate what it would take:

 

Garland + McCarthy?

Garland + Cotts?

Garland + Anderson + prospect?

 

Does anyone believe it would cost anything less then the scenarios listed above? We're in no position to deal for Abreu. Our system has been drastically weakened this offseason. There aren't many trading chips left which allow us to forsake their services and yet still have SOME hope for the future. We're running thin on pitching and outfielders.

[Dam8610]

I think Contreras or Garland + prospect would get it done. Maybe I'm overvaluing those guys though.

[DBAHO]

I'd love Abreu, but let's just speculate what it would take:

 

Garland + McCarthy?

Garland + Cotts?

Garland + Anderson + prospect?

 

Does anyone believe it would cost anything less then the scenarios listed above? We're in no position to deal for Abreu. Our system has been drastically weakened this offseason. There aren't many trading chips left which allow us to forsake their services and yet still have SOME hope for the future. We're running thin on pitching and outfielders.

Well Houston was looking at possibly trading for Abreu, and the only player that I heard besides prospects was Brandon Backe.

 

I think if we offered up Jon, and maybe a prospect like Sean Tracey, Pat Gillick could actually take that. Remember pitching is now a HUGE issue for the Phillies, after what's happened with the starters at Citizens. And they want good YOUNG pitching. Jon's not a rookie, but if the Phillies could get him locked up, they'd jump at it. And I know Abreu's a hell of a player, but they have Jason Michaels who can fill in.

 

And maybe if we dealt Jon, we'd have to have a situation like Tim Hudson from a year ago where the other team has 48 hours to negotiate a long - term deal with him.

[SSH2005]

I find that interesting though. By all reports Anderson is probably going to put up numbers from what we've seen of Jackass Jones for the past few seasons. But Young has that chance to be special, a Mike Cameron type, but better in the batters box.

 

Would Jerry Owens be ready to play in CF splitting time with Mackowiak? If so, then the Sox could have kept Young, traded Anderson, and set Chris loose in CF from 2007 onwards, assuming he performs in Charlotte.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Honestly, I wouldn't doubt that the Diamondbacks wanted Young over Anderson. I know I would if I were Arizona's GM.

Edited December 14, 2005 by SSH2005

[DBAHO]

Updates from Rotoworld;

 

Jose Contreras, who is eligible for free agency next year, may have already been offered a contract extension by the White Sox.

It's been reported that Jon Garland turned down a three-year contract. GM Ken Williams indicated that Contreras received a similar offer. "I don't have any desire to break up the rotation that helped us to a championship," Williams said. "That said, both Jose and Jon have been and will be given a chance to stay beyond the 2006 season." Dec. 14 - 4:41 am et

 

The New York Daily News believes the Mets could go to four years to secure free agent Julian Tavarez.

That'd be a bad idea, but there's certainly no reason for Tavarez to settle for any less than three years. He might not quite command the annual salary of a Kyle Farnsworth or Tom Gordon, but he's only 32 and he is durable. Plus, once he gets his new cap properly treated, he'll be far more effective in years two and three. Dec. 14 - 4:38 am et

[DBAHO]

But if KW is turning around and trading for an OF, include BA rather than Young

Yeah that's the thought I had in mind, if we were going to try and trade for an Abreu, otherwise if it's a Tejada, then they'd prob keep BA.

 

And from that Trib article from the Roto snippet that I just posted;

 

Arizona also is seeking a center fielder and has inquired about prospects Chris Young and Brian Anderson.

 

Seriously if Chris Young played CF for the Sox in 2006, would his numbers be all that different from BA's (besides the extra K's)? You saw the jump Jeff Francouer made from AA from the Braves, and Young had better AA numbers than him.

[SSH2005]

Yeah that's the thought I had in mind, if we were going to try and trade for an Abreu, otherwise if it's a Tejada, then they'd prob keep BA.

 

And from that Trib article from the Roto snippet that I just posted;

Seriously if Chris Young played CF for the Sox in 2006, would his numbers be all that different from BA's (besides the extra K's)? You saw the jump Jeff Francouer made from AA from the Braves, and Young had better AA numbers than him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wish we would have sent the Diamondbacks Anderson instead if they would have taken him over Young. But keep in mind, KW loves Anderson.

Edited December 14, 2005 by SSH2005

[DBAHO]

I wish we would have sent the Diamondbacks Anderson instead if they would have taken him over Young.  But keep in mind, KW loves Anderson.

Yeah I do too. And seriously, Arizona would be interested in BA, he plays a great CF defensively, and Josh Byrnes really wanted to improve the up the middle defense, plus he went to university in Arizona, so there's the homegrown factor as well.

 

We could be talking about this for the next few weeks on this subject alone, like we did on the Jeremy Reed instead of Joe Borchard, when we traded for Freddy Garcia. Seriously.

[hi8is]

Yeah I do too. And seriously, Arizona would be interested in BA, he plays a great CF defensively, and Josh Byrnes really wanted to improve the up the middle defense, plus he went to university in Arizona, so there's the homegrown factor as well.

 

We could be talking about this for the next few weeks on this subject alone, like we did on the Jeremy Reed instead of Joe Borchard, when we traded for Freddy Garcia. Seriously.

i thought it was crede or reed... not borchard or reed

[SSH2005]

Yeah I do too. And seriously, Arizona would be interested in BA, he plays a great CF defensively, and Josh Byrnes really wanted to improve the up the middle defense, plus he went to university in Arizona, so there's the homegrown factor as well.

 

We could be talking about this for the next few weeks on this subject alone, like we did on the Jeremy Reed instead of Joe Borchard, when we traded for Freddy Garcia. Seriously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought the Mariners never wanted Borchard? I seem to remember that they wanted Olivo and either Reed or Crede?

 

i thought it was crede or reed... not borchard or reed

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited December 14, 2005 by SSH2005

[DBAHO]

i thought it was crede or reed... not borchard or reed

Yeah some people thought that, and others had the view that Seattle could have had Borchard but KW wanted to keep him, but then IIRC quite a few people here said that Seattle never asked for Borchard. But that's a whole nutha story.

[DBAHO]

I thought the Mariners never wanted Borchard?  I seem to remember that they wanted Olivo and either Reed or Crede?

 

I did a quick Google Search and I found this from one of Cheat's old blog posts;

 

"without A doubt, they wanted Borchard," said Wilder of Seattle's interest in Borchard for Garcia. "we feel like if Joe Will be A Star, He Will be A Star in ...

[SSH2005]

I did a quick Google Search and I found this from one of Cheat's old blog posts;

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't miss Reed at all but that would have been nicer. Not that Reed was anything special other than a defensive stud last year. His offense was putrid.

[hi8is]

I don't miss Reed at all but that would have been nicer.  Not that Reed was anything special other than a defensive stud last year.  His offense was putrid.

he still has the ability to turn it around offsensivly

 

he isnt gonna be the hitter some people made him out to be for sure thou.

[DBAHO]

What bothers me about trading Young is the direction our organization appears to be taking in regards to prospects. Too few are advancing through the system, and those that are traded rarely amount to much. I know people cite failed prospects as proof Williams knows what he's doing; but I rather cite this as proof our minor leagues is putrid. Unless we either hold onto talent, or draft better prospects, we're going to be in trouble in a few years when our players begin demanding higher salaries.

You could only really look at Cotts and B-Mac for the past 2 or 3 seasons who have been successes from the Sox Farm System.

 

I wouldn't exactly say our minor league system is putrid at all. In fact, I think before this off-season we would have beeen a borderline top 10 organization is prospects. But losing 2 of your top 3 in Gio and Chris Young is going to hurt that significantly. Hopefully Jim Thome and Javier Vazquez are worth it is all we're going to say.

 

KW's always been the old GM school of thought. If someone like Terry Ryan was in charge, I think you'd probably find quite a few more prospects etc. still on this team and possibly contributing.

[SSH2005]

What bothers me about trading Young is the direction our organization appears to be taking in regards to prospects. Too few are advancing through the system, and those that are traded rarely amount to much. I know people cite failed prospects as proof Williams knows what he's doing; but I rather cite this as proof our minor leagues is putrid. Unless we either hold onto talent, or draft better prospects, we're going to be in trouble in a few years when our players begin demanding higher salaries.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Our time to repeat is mainly in 2006 and 2007. It makes sense to go for it. We won't have Garland, Contreras, Buehrle, and Garcia forever.

 

KW's always been the old GM school of thought. If someone like Terry Ryan was in charge, I think you'd probably find quite a few more prospects etc. still on this team and possibly contributing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, but that's because Terry Ryan HAS to keep his prospects. The Twins have a small payroll. If they had our payroll, I guarantee you that Ryan would be dealing more of his prospects for established players just like KW. Afterall, for teams with decently-sized payrolls that's what prospects are for.

Edited December 14, 2005 by SSH2005

[Flash Tizzle]

Our time to repeat is mainly in 2006 and 2007.  It makes sense to go for it.  We won't have Garland, Contreras, Buehrle, and Garcia forever.

 

And 2008? Will baseball not exist then?

 

We're not going to outbid anyone for a quality pitcher on the market. Continue to trade pitching and positional prospects season after season, eventually you're going to trade the wrong one and regret it. Our team is becoming expensive. This offseason, it appears we're giving ourselves too many opportunities to regret a certain move.

 

We need more than McCarthy to advance through the system. In a few years, one of the two scenarios need to occur: continued success for the club to support a higher payroll, thus paying hiking salary of players accordingly; and two, several prospects contributing on the team, which gives the club financial flexibility in other areas. Anderson, Cotts, Jenks, McCarthy is a good start. Winning a World Series obviously helps as well. I just feel our current stock of minor league talent will not be available to contribute in 2007, 2008, when their presence could be beneficial. If the winning subsides, it'd be nice to count on a talent influx.

Edited December 14, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[SSH2005]

And 2008? Will baseball not exist then?

 

We're not going to outbid anyone for a quality pitcher on the market. Continue to trade pitching and positional prospects season after season, eventually you're going to trade the wrong one and regret it. Our team is becoming expensive. This offseason, it appears we're giving ourselves too many opportunities to regret a certain move.

 

We need more than McCarthy to advance through the system. In a few years, one of the two scenarios need to occur: continued success for the club to support a higher payroll, thus paying hiking salary of players accordingly; and two, several prospects contributing on the team, which gives the club financial flexibility in other areas. Anderson, Cotts, Jenks, McCarthy is a good start. Winning a World Series obviously helps as well. I just feel our current stock of minor league talent will not be available in 2007, 2008, when there presence could be beneficial. If the winning subsides, it'd be nice to count on a talent influx.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After 2006, Garland and Contreras will both be free agents. After 2007, Buehrle will be a free agent if we pick up his 2007 team option for $9.5 million (which we will). Garcia will also be a free agent after 2007. Our pitching staff is built for mainly the next two seasons. I'm not saying we can't win the World Series after 2007 but I truly believe our best time to repeat is mainly in 2006 and 2007.

Edited December 14, 2005 by SSH2005

[hi8is]

Do turtles fart?

Yes, turtles do fart, and their farts smell incredibly bad, as do the farts of snakes. In fact, it is my opinion, based on personal experience with reptiles and not on any formal research, that many reptiles use farts as a weapon.

Reptile farts smell so bad that sometimes you can tell that one is nearby in the woods, even on a windy day, before you can see the animal. One day I was hiking through the woods in Arkansas with a friend and I told my friend, "I smell a snake fart." A second later, the snake crawled across the path. Astounding but true!

In an article published in the December 2000 issue of Discover, "the world's leading expert on snake sounds," Bruce Young of LaFayette College in Easton, Pennsylvania, affirmed that snakes do fart. The sonoran coral snake and the western hook-nosed snake fart with an audible popping sound when disturbed.