Sox Acquire Javier Vazquez

[quickman]

Well Addy besides Jim you are clearly a person I respect on this board, but I think you should calm down. We are better today than yesterday as it pertains to this season. Viscaino was no prize and El dugue is 50 and broken. Young could be good or not. I don't miss Jeremy Reed at all. All you youngsters loved his ass. GET BETTER PLAYERS and win again

 

 

 

 

He lost me, TQ.  I'm just awestruck.

 

Clearly, there is another move in the wings, here, and I have no idea what direction Kenny is heading.  Is he perfectly clear on what direction he is heading?

 

I was always the first to salute Kenny and give him the benefit of the doubt--the man brought a World Championship to this city after 88 years--but, he truly lost an ardent supporter today.

 

He flat-out cut off his nose to spite his face.

 

-You lose bullpen depth in Luis Vizcaino.  Remember bullpen depth?  You know...one of the key components to that World Series Roster

-You completely f***-up McCarthy's situation.  That kid was absolutely ready for that fifth-starter's role this year and I can say that without a shaddow of a doubt.  What the hell is going to happen there?  Are you telling me you are going to stick Brandon in the bullpen for 2006, waiting for an injury?

-It appears Jon Garland, a guy who would probably leave after this season, whom CAN BE REPLACED IN 2006 FREE AGENCT, is on his way out along with Chris Young, the Golden Boy and CF of the future.

 

He lost me.  He's going to have to earn this supporter--and his money, devotion, and time at the ballpark--back.

[Guest JimH]

Rock you will be surprised at what's available for relief pitchers.

 

My guess is the groundwork has already been laid and they've got some things lined up. Don't forget the non tender date is around the corner too. IMO nothing to worry about on Dec. 14.

[Balta1701]

So what you're saying. Balta, is everything being equal, just hand the Cy Young award to Mr. BMAC next year if he's going to be the best on our staff? 

Let me put it this way...based on what I saw from him in 2005, there's no reason why he can't earn it if he stays healthy. When I watched him pitch at the end of the year, he was the best pitcher on our staff including Contreras. The only guy who I saw be any more dominant than BM in those games was MB in those couple 1 hour 50 minute games earlier in the season.

 

I think he can win the Cy Young award based solely on what i saw last year, if he can stay consistent, yes.

 

Will he? Well, let's just say I hope so. I think he will win one with us, or he'll finish up 2nd to Mark. He is that good. Even if he has some difficult games next year...the one thing I do want is to make sure he is in the starting rotation, so he gets enough innings to keep working things out.

[maggsmaggs]

RHRP:

Mike Crudale

Dave Burba

Willis Roberts

Mike Jackson (Retired)

Dave Veres

Scott Service (Playing in Atl. League)

Tim Harikkala

Al Levine

Brian Boehringer (Retired)

Steve Reed

Antonio Osuna

Tim Spooneybarger

John Riedling

Ramiro Mendoza

Gary Knotts

Matt Ginter

Ben Weber

Chris Booker

Carlos Almanzar (Rehab--will be suspended for first 10 days on an active roster for steroid-use) Evan Rust

Pedro Liriano

Brandon Duckworth

Travis Driskill

Brandon Villafeurte

Brian Cooper

Keiichi Yabu

Giovanni Carrara

Matt Childers

Masao Kida

Steve Stemle

Matt Hensley

Franklin Perez

D.J. Mattox

Kevin Frederick

Rich Garces (Agent Jeff Borris)

Josias Manzanillo

Jose Jimenez

Juan Acevedo

Mike James

Seung Song

Luis Pineda

Dan Miceli

Danny Graves

Grant Roberts

Ricky Bottalico

Brian Falkenborg

Rick White

Cal Eldred (Retired)

Steve Karsay

Darren Dreifort (Retired)

Julian Tavarez

Felix Rodriguez

Paul Quantrill

Scott Sullivan

Rudy Seanez

Jason Grimsley

Brian Meadows

Jeff Nelson

Kerry Ligtenberg

Doug Brocail

Byung-Hyun Kim

Shigetoshi Hasegawa

Jay Powell (Expected to retire)

Al Reyes (Rehab)

Antonio Alfonseca

Chad Fox

Matt Herges

Jim Mecir

Shingo Takatsu

Turk Wendell (Retired)

Paul Shuey (Retired)

 

Here are the right-handed relivers available. Some solid guys, maybe Jeff Nelson and Tavarez.

[nitetrain8601]

Yeah, butter.

 

I like those slippery relief pitchers. 

 

 

Hopefully no one else finds out that he's doctoring the ball.

[maggsmaggs]

I would like the Sox to add Julian Tavarez possibly, he is similar pitcher to Viz, but better.  Eats innings and throws lots of sliders.

We need to get back Butter Parque.

[kapkomet]

Let me put it this way...based on what I saw from him in 2005, there's no reason why he can't earn it if he stays healthy.  When I watched him pitch at the end of the year, he was the best pitcher on our staff including Contreras.  The only guy who I saw be any more dominant than BM in those games was MB in those couple 1 hour 50 minute games earlier in the season.

 

I think he can win the Cy Young award based solely on what i saw last year, if he can stay consistent, yes.

 

Will he?  Well, let's just say I hope so.  I think he will win one with us, or he'll finish up 2nd to Mark.  He is that good.  Even if he has some difficult games next year...the one thing I do want is to make sure he is in the starting rotation, so he gets enough innings to keep working things out.

I agree that B-Mac is something special. And more importantly, CHEAP, at least right now. That's what makes me think that Jon-jon is more likely to go in this scenario if there's another deal coming.

[RockRaines]

Rock you will be surprised at what's available for relief pitchers.

 

My guess is the groundwork has already been laid and they've got some things lined up.  Don't forget the non tender date is around the corner too.  IMO nothing to worry about on Dec. 14.

Anything availabe as good as VIz could be next year? What about A LHP?

 

Im skeptical that KW is just trying to be daring because last year it worked.

 

IM glad Quick is back from his one-year vacation from the board.

Edited December 14, 2005 by RockRaines

[AddisonStSox]

Well Addy besides Jim you are clearly a person I respect on this board, but I think you should calm down. We are better today than yesterday as it pertains to this season. Viscaino was no prize and El dugue is 50 and broken. Young could be good or not. I don't miss Jeremy Reed at all. All you youngsters loved his ass. GET BETTER PLAYERS and win again

 

I'll wait to pass and further judgement until Kenny's plan is finished in its entirety. I realize more is coming. This was just awful tough to stomach when I look at our CF situation of the future and the upper-tier free agent starting pitching available after the 2006 season.

 

As for my "fandom," we all know I still adore my belov'ed White Sox. That's not changing.

 

Kenny is far more the maverick than I had him pegged for.

 

As always:

[nitetrain8601]

Here are the right-handed relivers available.  Some solid guys, maybe Jeff Nelson and Tavarez.

 

I would go after Tavarez and Felix Rodriguez. Rodriguez was good prior to experiencing Mel Stottlemeyer.

[3E8]

Also look at the formula St. Louis had with Danny Haren. It looks like that helped out in Oakland.

Haren was a starter every game he appeared in for his rookie year with the Cardinals. Next season he made 9 appearances from the bullpen. Are you telling me it was those 9 games he worked out of the bullpen in St. Louis that solidified him as a starting pitcher one year later? Give me a break. Things worked out for Haren because he is a starting pitcher and was given a full season to acclimate himself to the role.

[southsideirish71]

The deal has yet to be announced by the teams because Arizona is sending cash to the White Sox, which requires the commissioner's approval. Also, the players must take physical exams.

 

Don't know if this has been in the endless pages of this thread. But if that Yankee money is coming back towards the sox to balance out the fiscal requirement, this is becoming a better deal by the minute.

[RockRaines]

I'll wait to pass and further judgement until Kenny's plan is finished in its entirety.  I realize more is coming.  This was just awful tough to stomach when I look at our CF situation of the future and the upper-tier free agent starting pitching available after the 2006 season.

 

As for my "fandom," we all know I still adore my belov'ed White Sox.  That's not changing.

 

Kenny is far more the maverick than I had him pegged for.

 

As always:

i will agree the same, but I really really, didnt want to unload Chris Young, AZ really found a Gem with that one.

[Guest JimH]

Anything availabe as good as VIz could be next year?  What about A LHP?

 

Im skeptical that KW is just trying to be daring because last year it worked.

 

IM glad Quick is back from his one-year vacation from the board.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes I think they will land a quality reliever or two. It might not be someone we know on this board and it might be someone who's coming off a bad year but they will not leave themselves short in the bullpen.

[maggsmaggs]

Kenny is one of the best GM's at thinking ahead. He plans his team for three seasons in the future. He has some guys that FA that he is looking at for relivers and some non-tender guys. The core of the bullpen: Jenks, Cotts, Politte and Hermy are there. We need three more, two righties and a lefty. Who knows maybe Baj is one of them?

[nitetrain8601]

Anything availabe as good as VIz could be next year?  What about A LHP?

 

Im skeptical that KW is just trying to be daring because last year it worked.

 

IM glad Quick is back from his one-year vacation from the board.

 

Weren't you one of the guys calling him a jizzmopper? Anyway, Tavarez is available. Hasegawa is a FA. Isn't Eddie Guardado a FA? I thought they declined the option.

[KevHead0881]

I dont think Addy was talking about not being a fan of the team, I think he was saying his confidence level in KW's moves.

 

I like the pickup of another arm, but at what cost?  Seriously I thought that Chris Young was as untouchable a prospect as we had.  He was the Mike Cameron of 2007 to me.  If this makes way for another trade, so be it, but at this point, I was happier with our team before the trade.  Our bullpen depth is something that we need to look at, and there is not much available on the market right now.

 

If he turns out to be Mike Cameron, fine. Mike Cameron was never that great anyway. I'm sorry, but Chris Young is no big loss to me. Yes, he is talented, but there are talented outfielders all over the place. I'm probably in the minority here, but I honestly believe that people get too hooked on prospects around here.

[maggsmaggs]

Weren't you one of the guys calling him a jizzmopper? Anyway, Tavarez is available. Hasegawa is a FA. Isn't Eddie Guardado a FA? I thought they declined the option.

No, Seattle kept him for around $6 million I think.

[kapkomet]

i will agree the same, but I really really, didnt want to unload Chris Young, AZ really found a Gem with that one.

I agree. Chris Young, from all accounts, has all-star potential, and that can't be said for most of these other "prospects" we have traded away over the last couple of years. At the same time, I really think this is a smaller piece of a bigger puzzle and will be a good move in the long run.

[Guest JimH]

The Underground tells me it's $5M coming to the Sox from Arizona, which IMO is why the Dbacks landed Chris Young.

[nitetrain8601]

Haren was a starter every game he appeared in for his rookie year with the Cardinals.  Next season he made 9 appearances from the bullpen.  Are you telling me it was those 9 games he worked out of the bullpen in St. Louis that solidified him as a starting pitcher one year later?  Give me a break.  Things worked out for Haren because he is a starting pitcher and was given a full season to acclimate himself to the role.

 

Include the playoffs. Also, stick McCarthy in AAA if you don't want to "mess" with him. You want a better example, look at Pedro Martinez. His rookie year he made two starts and 63 appearences out of the bullpen. You act as if moving a rookie to the bullpen is going to jack him as a starter forever.

[RockRaines]

Weren't you one of the guys calling him a jizzmopper? Anyway, Tavarez is available. Hasegawa is a FA. Isn't Eddie Guardado a FA? I thought they declined the option.

Ehem-thats Gas-caino to you. And hes an every other year pitcher, he was due for a good one. With that said, I really hope that we can solidify the pen. Looks like Garland is on his way out of town, ok. Guess we will see where the chemistry goes onthis team next year.

[3E8]

Both McCarthy and Buehrle are the same. They're not power pitchers so you don't have to worry about endurance as much as you would for a guy who throws a 99mph heater and a hard slider. McCarthy is like a righthanded Buehrle in terms of type of stuff. Many people thought Haren's arm shouldn't have been relegated to the bullpen and that worked out well for the Cards, A's and Haren.

I don't think you can really call them the same. McCarthy uses a 4-seamer much more often than Buehrle and it probably averages about 4 more mph than Buehrle's. As a starting pitcher McCarthy puts more strain on his arm.

[AddisonStSox]

I dont think Addy was talking about not being a fan of the team, I think he was saying his confidence level in KW's moves.

 

I like the pickup of another arm, but at what cost?  Seriously I thought that Chris Young was as untouchable a prospect as we had.  He was the Mike Cameron of 2007 to me.  If this makes way for another trade, so be it, but at this point, I was happier with our team before the trade.  Our bullpen depth is something that we need to look at, and there is not much available on the market right now.

 

Clearly. Come, now.

 

I suppose it just boils down to what you've said. I liked the team more yesterday than I do today. It's my opinion. That's all...my opinion folks. What the hell do I know?

 

Go shovel some snow. There'll be baseball in April and I'll once again be oblivious to anything outside the realm of sports.

[RockRaines]

The Underground tells me it's $5M coming to the Sox from Arizona, which IMO is why the Dbacks landed Chris Young.

Lets all hope Brian Anderson is as good as promised.