Sox Acquire Javier Vazquez

[nitetrain8601]

Mike Mussina.

 

Seriously, which team has been the best at developing young arms the past few years?  Oakland.  Look how many starts from the bullpen that Mulder, Zito, Harden, and Blanton have logged.

 

Vicente Padilla.

[3E8]

Roger Clemens - Pedro Martinez.  He was using Martinez as an example that you don't mess up a guy by putting him in the pen.  No one claimed you mess up a guy by putting him in the rotation, so throwing Clemens name out there is pointless.

I'm not trying to prove putting a guy straight into the rotation doesn't mess him up.

 

I'm trying to prove it's a path many young pitchers take on their way to success and I'm strongly against keeping McCarthy out of his future role for an entire season.

[Kalapse]

Yup.  Joe Borchard was a legitimate stud too.

At Stanford, yes. In the minors, not so much.

[RockRaines]

Yup.  Joe Borchard was a legitimate stud too.

Borchard wasnt half the player that Young is. Young's EBH and doubles numbers are just about the best we have ever seen. Not to mention his sb's and defense. Please, read up a little on the guy before you compare players.

[nitetrain8601]

I'm not trying to prove putting a guy straight into the rotation doesn't mess him up. 

 

I'm trying to prove it's a path many young pitchers take on their way to success and I'm strongly against keeping McCarthy out of his future role for an entire season.

 

But trackrecords have proven that if you stick him in the pen for a year, they won't suck when they do start. It doesn't hinder their development. Nothing too bad comes out of it. There's no point in rushing McCarthy out there to take on a full season if we don't need him to, which right now is the case. That's my point.

[nitetrain8601]

Borchard wasnt half the player that Young is.  Young's EBH and doubles numbers are just about the best we have ever seen.  Not to mention his sb's and defense.  Please, read up a little on the guy before you compare players.

 

I'm pretty sure he's comparing the hype around these prospects. It seems as if most White Sox fans already have their prospects in the big leagues doing big things. So far, none have panned out in some time.

[AddisonStSox]

But trackrecords have proven that if you stick him in the pen for a year, they won't suck when they do start. It doesn't hinder their development. Nothing too bad comes out of it. There's no point in rushing McCarthy out there to take on a full season if we don't need him to, which right now is the case. That's my point.

 

Stop right there. McCarthy is developed. He is ready now. There is no such rush.

[YASNY]

I'm not trying to prove putting a guy straight into the rotation doesn't mess him up. 

 

I'm trying to prove it's a path many young pitchers take on their way to success and I'm strongly against keeping McCarthy out of his future role for an entire season.

 

Nobody's argued against that point either. The Sox, however, have a history of doing it the other way.

[drowninginflame]

Borchard is pretty much a glorified gas pumper, the dude sucks.

[RockRaines]

I'm pretty sure he's comparing the hype around these prospects. It seems as if most White Sox fans already have their prospects in the big leagues doing big things. So far, none have panned out in some time.

Hype? Im comparing players, and so was the guy in the BA chat, he is an educated baseball man, bringing hype into the discussion is pointless for arguments sake.

[Steff]

I see Reed is being mentioned in trade rumors now. Looks like Seattle doesn't think he's the second coming. I'm not sure what to think of this trade yet, but I do trust Kenny. I agree wholeheartedly that Williams wants to win it all over again. Hell, so do I!

 

 

 

LMAO.. I still remember a former Soxtalker spitting fire at Kenny for getting rid of Reed at Soxfest a few years ago..

[nitetrain8601]

Stop right there.  McCarthy is developed.  He is ready now.  There is no such rush.

 

Oh, so Don Cooper posts on this board? What if the White Sox trade Garland next year and McCarthy lays out a big fat egg? Are you still going to hold that stance?

[nitetrain8601]

Hype?  Im comparing players, and so was the guy in the BA chat, he is an educated baseball man,  bringing hype into the discussion is pointless for arguments sake.

 

Don't give me crap from some ESPN guy. So many people complain about ESPN except when it's to their benefit in an argument.

[RME JICO]

Am I the only one afraid of what our bullpen will look like next season? Hermy was great before his back gave him fits, but even if his back is ok this season should we expect the same from him??

 

Then Politte, I am not sure of his 2nd half numbers, but he got saved quite a few times and yet again another great year from a marginal reliever.

 

Can Jenks handle the job?

 

I am not worried about Cotts.

 

Vizcaino was good in the 2nd half, hes gone.

 

No Marte, while he was bad he could still come back.

 

I hope KW has a plan, which I know he does I just hope it works. Our bullpen is looking a little off at this point.

 

Vizcaino was just an average middle reliever; he was saved so many times by Neal, Cliff, Hermie, and Jenks. Look at his numbers:

 

3.73 ERA 1.47 WHIP .275 BAA

 

The ERA was skewd because the guys after him got his guys out. He was mainly thrown in there when the Sox were losing and to eat innings. Here is a nice stat about that: The Sox record when Viz pitched was 30-35. He only had 17 appearances where he did not give up a hit or walk out of 65 appearances, and most of those were 1 or 2 batters. He always reminded me of a Batting Practice Pitcher or Shot Putter.

 

Marte was too inconsistent and even though he has good stuff, there seems to be too many mental issues (confidence, etc) with him.

 

So you could say those guys were addition by subtraction as long as the Sox can at least bring in some average middle relief.

[3E8]

But trackrecords have proven that if you stick him in the pen for a year, they won't suck when they do start. It doesn't hinder their development. Nothing too bad comes out of it. There's no point in rushing McCarthy out there to take on a full season if we don't need him to, which right now is the case. That's my point.

Alright, I can respect the point you are conveying. It's just not how I would like to see things done but that doesn't really matter. I guess another starter could still get moved before next year in which case I will have argued for nothing.

[fathom]

Two things:

 

- J. Stark loves this deal for the Sox

 

- Baseball America loves Chris Young. They rate him leaps and bounds higher than Owens or Sweeney.

[SoxFan562004]

Hype?  Im comparing players, and so was the guy in the BA chat, he is an educated baseball man,  bringing hype into the discussion is pointless for arguments sake.

Wasn't Borchard the 5th pick overall? I believe he was one of the highest power rated hitters coming out of the draft since McGwire. Maybe Borchard totally fizzled, but he was rated high, even by baseball america early in is career.

 

Maybe a better comparisson could possibly be a Cory Patterson type player, who was rated high by everybody, Cubs would never include him in deals, now they can't get rid of him.

 

I am not saying Young will fail and not be an excellent player, I mean the Cubs did trade Dontrelle Willis and JG, and Red Sox traded Bagwell and on and on, but I want the Sox to win the World Series again in 2006, and IMO this trade helps that, either by standing pat or spinning it into a bigger move.

[KevHead0881]

At Stanford, yes. In the minors, not so much.

 

In 2001 in AA, he batted 295 with 27 hrs 98 RBI. He had anothe damn good year down there too. He struck out a ton, but that seems to be a problem with Young as well.

 

I'm not saying Young won't be a solid player. Just saying that you never know. As with most prospects, there is a decent chance he may never pan out.

[RockRaines]

Don't give me crap from some ESPN guy. So many people complain about ESPN except when it's to their benefit in an argument.

ummm, I dont believe he works for ESPN.

[Guest JimH]

JimH and Qiuckman have their s*** together.  I sat through the Ron Schuler years waiting for all the super prospects come up and save the Sox.  The thing that saved the Sox was Kenny Williams replacing Ron Schuler.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A very high compliment coming from you sir. Thank you.

[AddisonStSox]

Oh, so Don Cooper posts on this board? What if the White Sox trade Garland next year and McCarthy lays out a big fat egg? Are you still going to hold that stance?

 

If Brandon McCarthy isn't a pitcher ready to take on a full season's worth of major league starts, I've never seen one that was.

 

Thanks for posting Stark's opinion, fathom. Believe it or not, I appreciate what he has to say.

[Harry Chappas]

Garland was more major league ready when he came up then McCarthy is now and how many people tried to run him out of town. McCarthy may be ready and may pitch well but if we do not need him to why should we use him. The five guys in front of him are better at this point. One more year in the minors is one more year we have him on the cheap.

[RockRaines]

hmmmmm

 

Vaz and Ozzie

[YASNY]

Borchard was not the 5th pick overall. The Sox haven't had a top ten pick since ... who? Thomas? Fernandez?

[YASNY]

A very high compliment coming from you sir.  Thank you.

 

You're welcome. Though, I need to learn how to spell quickman. :headshake