Sox Acquire Javier Vazquez

[The Beast]

Can someone recap some of this thread? I want to know opinions without spending and hour reading all of this.

[Rowand44]

Can someone recap some of this thread? I want to know opinions without spending and hour reading all of this.

A lot of people like the deal, some don't, sf1 doesn't like the yankees.

[nitetrain8601]

Can someone recap some of this thread? I want to know opinions without spending and hour reading all of this.

 

I'd say it's 65-35 in terms of liking/not liking the deal. Most people think Vazquez can be fixed with Coop.

 

People are speculating whether dealing Garland to make space is good or not(most people want BMac to start because he thinks he's ready), while there's a minority that don't think/care if McCarthy's ready. In other words, there's a debate of whether or not we should throw him in the pen or deal a starter so he could start.

 

Latest debate is on whether we want to become the Yankees or not.

[SoxFan1]

Look. I understand what you're talking about. It's just that a dynasty coming from that type of "old school style" is rare, with only the Patriots as the example I can think of. Sure, when you can, that's the best-case scenario. But more often than not, you're not able to sustain that quality over a long period of time.

 

The reason I bring up the Yankees is because, year in, year out, they compete for the championship. The White Sox, on the other hand, haven't proven that. Yet. They're on their way, but they need another few years in the playoffs before they can be considered in discussion with the New Yorks, Bostons, Atlantas, and St Louises of the baseball world.

 

Also, at first I was more talking about their run in the 90s rather than now. Now, they do have problems in their system. But contending is not one of them, mostly because of that enormous budget.

 

As to your comment about the Yankees s***ty farm system: who cares? Do you know who won the Triple-A championship last year? The year before? The Double-A championship three years ago? No. Because that s*** doesn't matter. Sure, it's good for clubs without a ton of money that have to make deals instead of buying their free agents, but for teams with huge budgets, its not that big of a deal.

I can agree with all of that. For the most part, we're on the same page. But the payroll is the difference. Obviously, the White Sox can't afford to trade all their prospects because they don't have the salary. But if they keep winning, that would no longer be an issue. Cotts, Jenks, Buehrle, Garland, McCarthy, Anderson, and Crede were all brought up by the Sox in some way. The Yankee's have Cano and that's it I believe. They also have the advtange in payroll which pretty much nullifies their need for a minor league system. Yes, it is not imperative to a team to have great prospects but it sure doesn't hurt.

[SoxFan1]

A lot of people like the deal, some don't, sf1 doesn't like the yankees.

[Ozzie Montana]

This is a very good trade for a couple of reasons and let me tell you why. He is an inning eater (even on bad teams like Montreal and Arizona he excelled 200 inn.). He is a strike-out pitcher and that holds well at U.S Cellular. His curve ball is excellent and the main reason why he allowed some 35 homers is because of Arizona's thin air atmosphere where his pitches were always hanging. PLUS this guy is only 29. Thumbs up for Kenny. He's pulling out all the right moves.

 

We traded away a guy who is always a threat to hit the DL, an ineffective reliever last year, and a prospect for the outfield where it is the position with the most depth in the minors.

Edited December 14, 2005 by Ozzie Montana

[rcpweiner]

I can agree with all of that.

 

Come here. Let me give you a man-hug, you baby gorilla.

 

Pick you up at 8 for "Brokeback Mountain"?

[SoxFan1]

Come here. Let me give you a man-hug, you baby gorilla.

 

Pick you up at 8 for "Brokeback Mountain"?

LMAO. We're cool man. And I'll pass on the mountain part...

Edited December 14, 2005 by SoxFan1

[nitetrain8601]

I can agree with all of that. For the most part, we're on the same page. But the payroll is the difference. Obviously, the White Sox can't afford to trade all their prospects because they don't have the salary. But if they keep winning, that would no longer be an issue. Cotts, Jenks, Buehrle, Garland, McCarthy, Anderson, and Crede were all brought up by the Sox in some way. The Yankee's have Cano and that's it I believe. They also have the advtange in payroll which pretty much nullifies their need for a minor league system. Yes, it is not imperative to a team to have great prospects but it sure doesn't hurt.

 

There's that one guy named Derek Jeter on their team. Oh yeah, that All-Star catcher. And the White Sox did not develop Jenks. That was the Angels.

[SoxFan1]

There's that one guy named Derek Jeter on their team. Oh yeah, that All-Star catcher. And the White Sox did not develop Jenks. That was the Angels.

Did Jenks not come out of the Sox minor league system?

 

Cotts, Jenks, Buehrle, Garland, McCarthy, Anderson, and Crede were all brought up by the Sox in some way

[nitetrain8601]

Did Jenks not come out of the Sox minor league system?

 

For half a year. I don't consider being here for half of a year meaning we developed him. Garland yes, simply because he spent most of his time in the Sox minor leagues instead of the Cubs. Buehrle yes. Crede yes. Cotts is debateable because he did come from the A's system.

[SoxFan1]

For half a year. I don't consider being here for half of a year meaning we developed him. Garland yes, simply because he spent most of his time in the Sox minor leagues instead of the Cubs. Buehrle yes. Crede yes. Cotts is debateable because he did come from the A's system.

Again, the key phrase is "in some way."

[knightni]

BRING BACK "TOKEN SOUP BOY!"

 

 

 

 

/end capslock

[SoxFan1]

BRING BACK "TOKEN SOUP BOY!"

/end capslock

LMAO. I was wating for someone to say something. Surprisingly, it took a while.

[Benchwarmerjim]

I congrats the Sox brass on another good move

 

[nitetrain8601]

I congrats the Sox brass on another good move

 

 

Thank you.

[White Sox Josh]

I congrats the Sox brass on another good move

 

Castillo was a pretty good move.

[OilCan]

The only reason why people hate the trade is because we're giving up a great stud prospect in Chris Young.

 

With Chris' stock on the top of the pillar right now, you can command any good pitcher in the right trade.

 

Chalk this one as one of those good trades.

 

And for those who are saying we need bullpen help....

 

"Jeff Bajaneru, your table is ready, sir..."

 

[Balta1701]

I can agree with all of that. For the most part, we're on the same page. But the payroll is the difference. Obviously, the White Sox can't afford to trade all their prospects because they don't have the salary. But if they keep winning, that would no longer be an issue. Cotts, Jenks, Buehrle, Garland, McCarthy, Anderson, and Crede were all brought up by the Sox in some way. The Yankee's have Cano and that's it I believe. They also have the advtange in payroll which pretty much nullifies their need for a minor league system. Yes, it is not imperative to a team to have great prospects but it sure doesn't hurt.

But see, that's the real amazing thing about what KW has been doing with these deals...he's not only been getting good players in return, but he's been going around the league and pulling in some of the cash to pay people that we normally couldn't.

 

Payroll in the long term is still a concern, but KW has to be thinking that payroll will continue to grow with attendence as long as we keep winning, so if we win in the short term, that will produce larger growth spurts in payroll in the future, which may allow us to fill in these gaps in our minor leagues that we've been creating.

 

On top of that, KW has been trading minor leaguers from positions where we're strong. The only reason we might have needed Gio, for example, is if both Garland and Contreras walked. The only reason we might need Young is if Anderson, Sweeney, Owens, Dye, and Podsednik couldn't cut it over the next few years. That's 5 outfielders for 3 spots. We have 6 starters right now, all of whom can eat innings, and even if we lose 1 of them...we weren't going to have room for Gio. At the worst right now it looks like it'll be at least 2 years before we need to fill in another actual hole in our starting 5.

 

So KW is trading the "extra" people who won't be playing with us in the next few years to both fill in holes and grab cash from other people. Now that strikes me as a brilliant way to run a mid-market franchise.

[greg775]

Without reading the million posts or starting a new thread .. tell me bout Chris Young.

How good is he?

Is he a star in the making or just another guy?

 

I like the pickup but I worry bout losing Young.

[nitetrain8601]

Without reading the million posts or starting a new thread .. tell me bout Chris Young.

How good is he?

Is he a star in the making or just another guy?

 

I like the pickup but I worry bout losing Young.

 

Most people around here think he's a star in the making. He might be, I personally don't care. You give something to get something.

[Felix]

Without reading the million posts or starting a new thread .. tell me bout Chris Young.

How good is he?

Is he a star in the making or just another guy?

 

I like the pickup but I worry bout losing Young.

He's a future 30/30 and possibly 40/40 guy.

[Rowand44]

He's a future 30/30 and possibly 40/40 guy.

Guaranteed.

[greg775]

He's a future 30/30 and possibly 40/40 guy.

 

Yikes.

I'd rather have an everyday player than a pitcher in that case.

[Kalapse]

He's a future 30/30 and possibly 40/40 guy.

Come on.