kevin57 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Are the Sox stronger and better for acquiring Vazquez at the price of El Duque, Viz, and Young, or did we just get sold a bill of goods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierzynski 12 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I thought it was a great move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Great and Terrible are extremes IMO. I don't like this trade, initially, but I don't want to say terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I will say terrible, we didnt need the 6th starter, didnt need to get rid of another bullpen arm, and our best Minor Peague player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Im taking a wait and see attitude on this one. Ive heard good and bad things about Vazquez so time will tell on that one. Viz was useless for this team, Duque is on his last legs and even though Young is supposedly a stud a prospect is just exactly that until he performs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I voted: terrible. I have absolutely no idea what Kenny has planned and it is scaring the hell out of me. He just cut off his nost to spite his face. This is a regression. I'm really, really quite disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Viz is pretty replaceable, especially now that it appears Hermy's rehab is going well. El Duque was an extra cog, and wasn't going to be reliable. Would have been ideal (although pricey) as a long relief guy, but he wouldn't be happy there. Shame about Young, though. Really, it's about the money. If we get $4M+ back from ARZ (to effectively make Vazquez' salary 8.5M), then I'm good with it. If no money comes through, then I'm not happy. Thing is, I think there's another deal in the wings here. Someone else is going to be moved for a LHRP. I'll wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin57 Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:21 AM) If we get $4M+ back from ARZ (to effectively make Vazquez' salary 8.5M), then I'm good with it. If no money comes through, then I'm not happy. I can't provide a source, but I heard we'll be getting $5M in the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RME JICO Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 (edited) Way too soon on this one. Very similar to the Thome deal BEFORE Paulie resigned. Right now I would say this is a terrible move based off what the Sox had and needed right now. Vazquez is overpaid and overrated. I never liked Vizcaino, but I thought giving him up with El Duque would have been enough. When you throw in Young, then the D-Backs made out like bandits. They were going to have to trade Vazquez anyway, so while in that situation they get El Duque, Vizcaino, and Young, and unload Vazquez's big contract is pretty huge. The only thing I can think of is that KW is going to use Vazquez (wants to be closer to PR) or Garland as trade bait for Tampa Bay's Crawford. If that happens hopefully the Sox could get a prospect or reliever as well making the net effect: (+) Add - Crawford, prospect/reliever Keep - Garland/Vazquez (-) Lose - El Duque, Vizcaino, Young, Garland/Vazquez Edited December 14, 2005 by WinninUgly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I think the bigger issue is that this deal signals that one of our starters is going somewhere, and it's probably Garland. B-Mac is pretty much untouchable because he is our only cheap starter, and Contreras isn't going to net as much because he's old. Garland (or I supposed Vazquez, but he wasn't that hot a commodity) almost has to be used to acquire a big bat and/or a solid reliever, otherwise this deal makes no sense whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(kevin57 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:32 AM) I can't provide a source, but I heard we'll be getting $5M in the deal. Then I think the deal is pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:39 AM) Then I think the deal is pretty good. You're serious? In your opinion, Javier Vazquez is worth El Duque, the sixth starter of sorts, Vizcaino, a contributing member of the bullpen, Chris Young, on pace to be this teams staple in CF beginning as early as 2007, and $5M cash? I suppose the logical thing to do here would be wait until Kenny's plan is executed to its completion, but, knee-jerk reaction: just don't like it. Naturally, I'll still devote as much of my "fandom" to this club as ever before. We all know this. Edited December 14, 2005 by AddisonStSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(kevin57 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:32 AM) I can't provide a source, but I heard we'll be getting $5M in the deal. The way that Brian Dolgin keeps wording it on the Sportscenter update, it sounds like the Sox are sending $5M to Arizona. Which makes zero sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Wait and see. More moves need to be made to solidify the team now. We CAN have a much better team if the correct moves are made after this. If KW has 2-3 moves up his sleeve with this being the first one, I think we will all look back on this and think it's a good move. However, until these moves are done, I will reserve judgement. If no moves are done, I'd not too excited by this move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RME JICO Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:44 AM) The way that Brian Dolgin keeps wording it on the Sportscenter update, it sounds like the Sox are sending $5M to Arizona. Which makes zero sense. That would be horrible. I really hope it is the other way around. The news posts about it say D-Backs give up Vazquez and cash for El Duqe, Viz, and Young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 The way that Brian Dolgin keeps wording it on the Sportscenter update, it sounds like the Sox are sending $5M to Arizona. Which makes zero sense. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dolgin doesn't have BRUUUUUUUUUUCE to give him the inside info anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 If the Sox than make a trade for Carl crawford. Than this move will be great. Crawford is a badass. And hes still young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 (edited) You're serious? In your opinion, Javier Vazquez is worth El Duque, the sixth starter of sorts, Vizcaino, a contributing member of the bullpen, Chris Young, on pace to be this teams staple in CF beginning as early as 2007, and $5M cash? I suppose the logical thing to do here would be wait until Kenny's plan is executed to its completion, but, knee-jerk reaction: just don't like it. Naturally, I'll still devote as much of my "fandom" to this club as ever before. We all know this. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> El Duque was awful last season and was due to earn $4.5 million + incentives in 2006. It's shocking to me that we were able to dump him. Vizcaino was mediocre to bad with a 1.47 WHIP last season and could be easily replaced by a myriad of last arm in the bullpen options. Chris Young is the only player of good value that we lost. And I'm pretty sure that Dolgin is wrong about the $5 million. The online reports have Arizona sending us money in the deal. Edited December 14, 2005 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:42 AM) You're serious? In your opinion, Javier Vazquez is worth El Duque, the sixth starter of sorts, Vizcaino, a contributing member of the bullpen, Chris Young, on pace to be this teams staple in CF beginning as early as 2007, and $5M cash? I suppose the logical thing to do here would be wait until Kenny's plan is executed to its completion, but, knee-jerk reaction: just don't like it. Naturally, I'll still devote as much of my "fandom" to this club as ever before. We all know this. We are talking about a pitcher we didn't want, the last right hander out of our pen, and a good prospect with an ETA of 2007 who plays a position that we have 3 other legitimate prospects, 2 knocking on the majors door, that we traded. Hernandez was worthless to us, Vizcaino is easily replacable. Young is the only one who MIGHT hurt, and that won't be for a while. Yes this deal is a winner for the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:42 AM) You're serious? In your opinion, Javier Vazquez is worth El Duque, the sixth starter of sorts, Vizcaino, a contributing member of the bullpen, Chris Young, on pace to be this teams staple in CF beginning as early as 2007, and $5M cash? I suppose the logical thing to do here would be wait until Kenny's plan is executed to its completion, but, knee-jerk reaction: just don't like it. Naturally, I'll still devote as much of my "fandom" to this club as ever before. We all know this. Yes, I'm serious. Yes, I think a guy who at worst is a solid #5 starter and at best could be huge is at least equal to El Duque (5.11, 4329857438 years old and injured a lot), Vizcaino (a decent middle reliever but nothing special) and an OF prospect (when we have Anderson, Owens and Sweeney in the wings). This is true to me, as long as we get that cash (because Vazquez is not a $12.5M pitcher). Yes, I think another deal is coming, probably involving Garland, making Vazquez all the more important. I figured you'd not really be sacrificing your support of the team, dude. I was just surprised at your post that sounded otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:48 AM) El Duque was awful last season and was due to earn $4.5 million + incentives in 2006. It's shocking to me that we were able to dump him. Vizcaino was mediocre to bad with a 1.47 WHIP last season and could be easily replaced by a myriad of last arm in the bullpen options. Chris Young is the only player of good value that we lost. And I'm pretty sure that Dolgin is wrong about the $5 million. The online reports have Arizona sending us money in the deal. Well, that begs the question, will you be able to conjure up a most-witty nickname for Javier Vazquez? That name looks promising... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 It's kind of interesting, there are the exceptions. However, it seems the younger you are, the less you like this deal. I don't know what that means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:01 AM) It's kind of interesting, there are the exceptions. However, it seems the younger you are, the less you like this deal. I don't know what that means. Present company included, Sir Grease? Let's be fair, here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:10 AM) Great and Terrible are extremes IMO. I don't like this trade, initially, but I don't want to say terrible. QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:02 PM) Present company included, Sir Grease? Let's be fair, here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:01 PM) It's kind of interesting, there are the exceptions. However, it seems the younger you are, the less you like this deal. I don't know what that means. Wow. I guess I must REALLY like this deal then. Oh wait... I mean hate it! Yeah, I really hate this deal! Word. Shiznit. er... something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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